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JohnWallace44
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6/3/2009  3:58 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Holiday is a big dude and will play D with anybody in this draft. He's a high upside guy. If you want to play it safe and go with a Sweetney, Frye type of pick, fine. Take Curry. If you want a boom or bust type of guy, then you're with me and you want Holiday/Derozan/Evans. Except that, with their size, I'm not sure to what extent they can actually bust.

How can you NOT label Curry as a boom or bust type of guy? Dude averaged 27 a game, carried his team all this year and deep into the Madness of March last year, high BBIQ, etc.

Curry is waaaaayyyyy different than Frye, Sweetney.

In the category of prolific college performers who do not have a size/speed advantage in the pros I would give you;
- Sweetney, May, Frye, Maxiel, Reddick, Jameer Nelson, Khalid El Amin, Acie Law
- This year, Curry is that type of player

I'm sorry if I hurt people's feelings saying that, but you know its true. You see it in the way teams draft these days. Why is Meeks not getting attention? Why isn't Scottie Reynolds getting any attention?

If you can differentiate between your boy Curry and the abilities of Reynolds and Meeks then you're a better man then me. If you can tell me that Meeks and Reynolds wouldn't put up the same or better results at Davidson than Curry did, then congrats.

The stats don't tell me Curry's better. The competition doesn't tell me Curry is better. The body doesn't tell me Curry is better.

I'm telling you with this guy... buyer beware.

Put Curry in Flynn's situation? Does he go up into Thabeet's grill after multiple overtimes to lead his team to a win? Not sure.

I posted Curry's stats in one of the other threads with his games against West Virginia, Duke and Oklahoma. They're not impressive to me. Some of these other lead guards are getting similar attention and putting up comparable stats.

I'll never be in his camp. That's just me.

[Edited by - johnwallace44 on 06-03-2009 4:15 PM]
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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Marv
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6/3/2009  4:12 PM
Posted by Panos:

Isn't there anyone with stiff legs and a bad back available at #8?

why yes there is. his name is mr. bj mullens. and please don't ask what bj stands for.
Allanfan20
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6/3/2009  4:16 PM
Posted by Ira:

I think there are five players that we can count on being gone before we pick - Griffin, Rubio, Thabeet, DeRozan and Harden. If we end up with either Curry or Holiday, I'll be happy.

I wouldn't be dissapointed either, but if Hill is there I'd like him too.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
martin
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6/3/2009  4:23 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by martin:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Holiday is a big dude and will play D with anybody in this draft. He's a high upside guy. If you want to play it safe and go with a Sweetney, Frye type of pick, fine. Take Curry. If you want a boom or bust type of guy, then you're with me and you want Holiday/Derozan/Evans. Except that, with their size, I'm not sure to what extent they can actually bust.

How can you NOT label Curry as a boom or bust type of guy? Dude averaged 27 a game, carried his team all this year and deep into the Madness of March last year, high BBIQ, etc.

Curry is waaaaayyyyy different than Frye, Sweetney.

In the category of prolific college performers who do not have a size/speed advantage in the pros I would give you;
- Sweetney, May, Frye, Maxiel, Reddick, Jameer Nelson, Khalid El Amin, Acie Law
- This year, Curry is that type of player

I'm sorry if I hurt people's feelings saying that, but you know its true. You see it in the way teams draft these days. Why is Meeks not getting attention? Why isn't Scottie Reynolds getting any attention?

If you can differentiate between your boy Curry and the abilities of Reynolds and Meeks then you're a better man then me. If you can tell me that Meeks and Reynolds wouldn't put up the same or better results at Davidson than Curry did, then congrats.

The stats don't tell me Curry's better. The competition doesn't tell me Curry is better. The body doesn't tell me Curry is better.

I'm telling you with this guy... buyer beware.

Put Curry in Flynn's situation? Does he go up into Thabeet's grill after multiple overtimes to lead his team to a win? Not sure.

I posted Curry's stats in one of the other threads with his games against West Virginia, Duke and Oklahoma. They're not impressive to me. Some of these other lead guards are getting similar attention and putting up comparable stats.

I'll never be in his camp. That's just me.

[Edited by - johnwallace44 on 06-03-2009 4:15 PM]

I didn't follow a lot of Sweetney, May, Frye, Maxiel, Reddick, Jameer Nelson, Khalid El Amin, Acie Law in college but how can you compare them to Curry and not include his situation.

Most all of those guys had a decent supporting cast. Curry, by all accounts, was the lone good player on a DII team whose teammates SUCKED ASS. When he goes up against the likes of Duke, of course the Duke coach will just double team him and make another player beat them.

And of those guys, who amongst them single-handedly carried their respective teams? And who were prolific scorers and very sharp passers?

Apples and oranges.
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Marv
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6/3/2009  4:27 PM
i don't get the inclusion of jameer nelson in that list, who was an all-star this year and just seems to get better and better as a pro.
nixluva
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6/3/2009  4:40 PM
It's really silly to try and minimize Curry's accomplishments. If he was JUST putting up numbers and his team was losing, then I could see a reason to downplay his scoring and assists., but he was helping his team to WIN and even get in the NCAA Tourney. He didn't just get his team in, but they had a good showing and he was the number one reason for that success.

So now we find out that he's got a bit more strength and athleticism than we thought and with good size for a PG and to me there's no negatives. Heck is a quicker guy than Mark Jackson and he managed to have a long NBA career. I also think that with Curry his game speed is greater than it seems due to his BB IQ and Instincts. I think he sees the game unfold a bit faster and that helps him to offset his lack of blazing speed. Being able to anticipate and also see plays before they develop is a very important asset for a PG.
newyorknewyork
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6/3/2009  4:46 PM
Posted by Ira:

I think there are five players that we can count on being gone before we pick - Griffin, Rubio, Thabeet, DeRozan and Harden. If we end up with either Curry or Holiday, I'll be happy.

Then Hill would be available who I would take over Curry & Holiday
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TMS
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6/3/2009  5:21 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:



Check out this Holiday vs Derozan video - to me, the debate will come down to these two internally. Will we have a chance to draft either? That's a good question.

what sets them apart for me is how much more explosive & bigger Derozan is compared to Holiday... given they're gonna be playing different positions on the floor, but if you watched the Pac10 tournament game when Derozan scored 21 & Holiday came up severely small for his team & only put up 1 pt that day, i'm taking Derozan all the way if i have to choose between those 2... Derozan stepped up & badly outplayed Harden too in the Pac10 championship game... that shows something about the kid's maturity & his ability to come up big when his team needs it most.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-03-2009 2:23 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
JohnWallace44
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6/3/2009  5:25 PM
Posted by nixluva:

It's really silly to try and minimize Curry's accomplishments. If he was JUST putting up numbers and his team was losing, then I could see a reason to downplay his scoring and assists., but he was helping his team to WIN and even get in the NCAA Tourney. He didn't just get his team in, but they had a good showing and he was the number one reason for that success.

So now we find out that he's got a bit more strength and athleticism than we thought and with good size for a PG and to me there's no negatives. Heck is a quicker guy than Mark Jackson and he managed to have a long NBA career. I also think that with Curry his game speed is greater than it seems due to his BB IQ and Instincts. I think he sees the game unfold a bit faster and that helps him to offset his lack of blazing speed. Being able to anticipate and also see plays before they develop is a very important asset for a PG.

Mark Jackson was a point guard from a young age. I don't accept that comparison. He also played on a major collegiate level.

Nobody is putting down what Curry did at Davidson. I'm putting down his potential vs his bust potential.

I think he compares specifically with guys like Reddick. With guys like Trevor Ruffin to dig up an older name. Prolific outside shooters who had college magic and could not duplicate it in the pros.

Morris Almond was a prolific scorer from the forward spot who has been able to do nothing in the pros.

Adam Morrison was another.

Ronnie Price is another guard who scored at 24+ points per game at a small school and has done next to nothing in the league.

Kevin Martin would be the guy that the Curry lover would want to compare him to. He went for 24.9 ppg for Western Carolina. However, he had the size and speed advantage at the next level.



So yeah, I mean how about one of the Curry lovers tells us why exactly we should believe that he is going to be an impact player here. Where is the evidence in the last ten years for that?

There is far much more evidence on the other side that would tell you to take the 60/40 shot on the overwhelming physical talent, as opposed to the 20/80 success rate of the prolific college scorer who does not have a size/speed advantage that will allow him to have a go to skill in the pros.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
GKFv2
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6/3/2009  8:10 PM
Posted by Ira:

I think there are five players that we can count on being gone before we pick - Griffin, Rubio, Thabeet, DeRozan and Harden. If we end up with either Curry or Holiday, I'll be happy.

This is basically where I stand on the issue.
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martin
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6/3/2009  8:41 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by Ira:

I think there are five players that we can count on being gone before we pick - Griffin, Rubio, Thabeet, DeRozan and Harden. If we end up with either Curry or Holiday, I'll be happy.

This is basically where I stand on the issue.

Strange choice to include DeRozan. RealGM, Chad Ford, DraftExpress, NBADraft... I don't think any of them have him going in their top 8.
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