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KVH and his CONVENIENT "injury"...
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/26/2003  10:09 AM
Watch him have much better stats tonight. And look at the stats, Spree's stats are better. It's ikmpossible to argue that.

Plus, I wouldn't have had as much of an issue if we'd gotten someone other than KVH. I don't feel that cat at all. That trade was the main factor in castrating our team.
Now the fans gotta suffer thru this madness.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
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Nedyal1
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11/26/2003  10:34 AM
Heart can't be measured. But it creates the statistics.

Those stat's did not include Sprees Goose egg last nite.

KVH has him on points and rebounds. Spree on turnovers.

Too early to judge.

If KVH pulled a game like that Spree had last nite, Y'all would hve found some rope and string his ass up to a tree.
THE PROBLEM AT HAND MUST BE SOLVED WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF THINKING THAN THAT IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED: ALBERT EINSTIEN
playa2
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11/26/2003  10:34 AM
Spree will be getting a lot of assist 2 nite cause he won't score alot tonight.Knicks gonna show him how much of his game he needs to improve.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Vmart
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11/26/2003  10:37 AM
The Knicks were already castrated. Even before KVH got here. Have two straight years of no playoff been overlooked. Spree didn't help this team as much as you are making it out to be. This cat single handedly (pun intended) cost the KNicks a chance last year. I can't forgive him for that, that was a selfish act that he committed.

I'm as big a Spree fan there is I remember thinking even before he came on the kNicks in the early 90's thinking if they can some how get Kevin Johnson or Spree on this team they would be set. Sure enough in 99 they got Spree. But I noticed his game slipping. A move had to be made to get this team bigger no matter what. This team is out rebounding teams now and you gotta like that.
TRU
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11/26/2003  10:50 AM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Watch him have much better stats tonight. And look at the stats, Spree's stats are better. It's ikmpossible to argue that.

I'll argue with it.


First off, the Post comparison is bunk. They conveniently failed to average in Spree's donut last night in Indiana.

Start with the numbers. Van Horn is averaging 16.8 points, 7.4 rebounds and 1.9 assists. He's shooting 38.5 percent and turning the ball over 3.7 times per game.

Compare that with Sprewell, who's putting up 15.6 points, 4.8 rebounds and 3.6 assists. He's shooting 39.6 percent and turning the ball over 1.9 times per game.

So what we have is:

Van Horn with 1 more ppg. and 3 more rebounds.
Sprewell with 2 more assists, 2 less turnovers, shooting 1 percentage point better.

I'm not saying Van Horn is better than Spree. But to say that it's "ikmpossible" to argue against Spree having better stats irrational and unresearched. It's impossible to argue that Spree's stats are better than those of, say, Kevin Garnett. That would be a more accurate use of the word "impossible," no matter how you spell it.

If you really want to be accurate, you can take a look at the NBA's new efficiency stat-- it's supposed to take everything you do statistically on the court into account:

Sprewell: 14.21
Van Horn: 14.10

Now you can bring up the fact that Spree is a far better and energetic defender, or that Spree plays on a far superior team, but those aren't statistical arguments. The numbers don't lie, and as far as the numbers go, the two players are basically the same.
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/26/2003  11:00 AM
Posted by Vmart:

The Knicks were already castrated. Even before KVH got here. Have two straight years of no playoff been overlooked. Spree didn't help this team as much as you are making it out to be. This cat single handedly (pun intended) cost the KNicks a chance last year. I can't forgive him for that, that was a selfish act that he committed.

I'm as big a Spree fan there is I remember thinking even before he came on the kNicks in the early 90's thinking if they can some how get Kevin Johnson or Spree on this team they would be set. Sure enough in 99 they got Spree. But I noticed his game slipping. A move had to be made to get this team bigger no matter what. This team is out rebounding teams now and you gotta like that.

You blame Latrell for us not making the playoffs last year? So Dolan, LayDown, and Chaney had nothing to do with it? What about the Dyess injury? What about us not having a real center, and being the shortest team in the NBA last year?

You then say you liked Spree. That sounds kinda contradictory, doesn't it?

Anyway, getting bigger and more rebounding currently has us at 5-9 (5-10 after tonight). Two of those wins occurred without KVH's supposedly "helpful" size and rebounding. Also, turing those 2 wins we have had better passing and less turnovers altogether.

When (not if) we miss the playoffs this year, will the the pro-KVH heads blame him for it?

When Mike & the Mad Dog asked Scott LayDown who the better player was, he ducked the question. I am sure you guys heard that interview. If not, the link is posted in this thread.

It's impossible to try and explain away that trade. LayDown looked like a damn fool trying to do that. He's the Knicks GM. Any mere fan believing they could explain it better than him only runs the risk of making themselves appear even more foolish.

The way the team is looking righ now, no, I don't like it. Actually I like it better without KVH. We get more size and boards having Deke here. Now that was an improvement.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
TRU
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11/26/2003  11:07 AM
Hardcore, you're not making any sense.

You're certainly entitled to not like the trade, but to say that you can't see why it was made (even though you don't agree with it) is unintelligent.

Management prioritized youth, height, rebounding, and and easier-to-manage personality over passing, defense, experience, popularity and emotion.

And give the Knicks some credit. Minnesota is coming off a tough loss in Indiana after a back-to-back. Then Knicks are rested and more confident than they've been at any other point in the season. They might surprise you for a third time in a row...

[Edited by - TRU on 11/26/2003 11:09:46]
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/26/2003  11:11 AM
I hear where you are coming from, TRU, and as far as defense I did mention that previously in this thread. Defense is something this team needs to improve. Why get another player that adds to an already present deficiency? How can they basically be the same when defense and passing are still issues yet to be cortrected?? Now we have the added problem of turnovers, which directly affect our place in the standings.

All the efficiency stat is, is an average of several of the aforementioned stats. I noted those stats individually.

Lastly, man you know that "impossible" spelling thing was a typo. LOL
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/26/2003  11:20 AM
Well I was addressing Vmart's post. Read the points I made. That post wouldn't make sense in relation to your post because it was in response to someone else's post.

My opinion regarding the trade is well documented on this board. If you wanna talk about what is unintelligent, discuss that with the GM. His attempt to explain the trade was just that.

In addition, the Knicks are confident after having won 2 games without KVH in the lineup. If anything, that just helps prove my earlier point.

The T-wolves losing last night and Spree's bad game only lead me to believe that we're gonna lose tonight.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 11/26/2003 11:20:58]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
knixphan
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11/26/2003  11:33 AM
By the time the Knicks really, REALLY compete for a title, Spree, KVH, Mutombo, and possibly Houston will not be powerhouses on any team. Maybe 'LJ'-type veteran locker-room-presence, but not the #1 options...so the whole Spree-vs.-KVH thing is energy better spent on investigating who the starting five will be when Milos gets here...whether Lampe has the goods to evolve, where our next 7-footer is coming from, etc...

Spree-lovers should be happy, he has a chance to sniff a ring. Spree-haters should be happy, he's not here.

See? everybody happy.
"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
TRU
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11/26/2003  11:44 AM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Well I was addressing Vmart's post. Read the points I made. That post wouldn't make sense in relation to your post because it was in response to someone else's post.

My opinion regarding the trade is well documented on this board. If you wanna talk about what is unintelligent, discuss that with the GM. His attempt to explain the trade was just that.

In addition, the Knicks are confident after having won 2 games without KVH in the lineup. If anything, that just helps prove my earlier point.

The T-wolves losing last night and Spree's bad game only lead me to believe that we're gonna lose tonight.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 11/26/2003 11:20:58]

You're probably right... I wouldn't put any money on NY tonight. I lost enough money in highschool betting with my heart instead of my brain.

Layden is has made many a many bad moves. But this is the first year we get to see the complete Scott Layden Vision. And it looks like crap.
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
TRU
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11/26/2003  11:45 AM
Posted by knixphan:


See? everybody happy.

I'll be happy if they get another road win.
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
Nedyal1
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11/26/2003  1:24 PM
KnixPHan

Bingo! The team in 3 years will not hve this core group.

They may suck more, but FatSpoon will not last forever.

same subjects over 5 different threads.
THE PROBLEM AT HAND MUST BE SOLVED WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF THINKING THAN THAT IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED: ALBERT EINSTIEN
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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12/3/2003  5:52 PM
Are we gonna have to hear more drama about this cat's ankle if he doesn't hgave a good game (AGAIN) tonight?

I wonder...
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
blueandorange
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12/3/2003  6:18 PM
Keith Van Horn is a [word commonly used to refer to cats].
KVH IS FOOL'S GOLD
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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12/10/2003  11:15 AM
Nobody wanna compare KVH and Spree's stats now? The trade was a bust and all who have an iota of sense know this.

All the ones who tried to big up that chump KVH are real quiet now (except for K9 Snowman, who is the only glutton for punishment bold enough to stick to his guns). Where's all the big talk now?

He's having good stats over the 4 last games, all of wich we LOST. Whoop-de-damn-do. Do you like his defense- standing around watching the opposing team hit J's 2 feet away from him? Do you like how he gets the ball snatched from him like a school kid getting punked for his lunch money? Do you like how Cliff Robinson punked him so hard that his own team just stood around and watched?

OMG I (and those who can't stand KVH) got ammo for days on this one. Any member of the KVH club feel free to bring it.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Snowman
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12/10/2003  11:44 AM
Here is your comparison !!!!! KVH STATS: 16pts / 8rebs / 2ast / .4 blks / 1.6 stls / ft 87% / 3p .23% / fg 40% / to 3 per / 36 mins and now your boy, SPREE STATS: 17pts / 4rebs / 3ast / .2 blks / 1.4 stls / ft 82% / 3p .27% / fg 43% / to 2.3 per / 39 mins Where is that huge difference you speak of dawg !!! KVH gets more blocks and steals than SPREE and the turnover u talk about..... KVH 3 and SPREE 2.3 per game !!!!!!!! You better call for help because i just took your lunch money !!!!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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12/10/2003  12:07 PM
OKAY, now if KVH is supposed to be such a better shooter than Spree, where is the proof? I noticed you omitted 3pt FG% where Spree has the better stat too.

Lastly, compare the team records. They are 12-9. We are 7-15. We dropped five games straight. Spree's stats have been helping them WIN. KVH has mediocre to good stats and we still continue to LOSE.

Taking my lunch money?? Nah, bruh... Remember you are the KVH fan. Act like your idol and just hand that lunch money over, kid.


[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 12/10/2003 12:15:37]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
OldFan
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12/10/2003  12:08 PM
I was not against the KVH trade. My opinion was if we were gonna win this year I'd rather have Spree - but we weren't and KVH was younger with more upside. I'm still sticking to my story. KVH is having a below average year. If he returns to his norm he is a better shooter then Spree and can do a little damage inside.

He will get more rebounds.

His defense is bad - but I disagree that Spree was a good defender as a small forward. He tried but his lack of size made him only an average defender as a 3.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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12/10/2003  12:18 PM
Don't forget that Spree's a faster, much better passer too. We don't need KVH's rebounds with KT stepping up and adding Deke.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
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