[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Here is an interesting article
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 3 of 4 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
LivingLegend
Posts: 26558
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 8/13/2007
Member: #1645
4/15/2009  5:06 PM
Posted by :


Go easy on Briggs -- I posted the initial article on Real GM and the comments attached to the original article are mine.

Sincerely Johnny Hoops
AUTOADVERT
LivingLegend
Posts: 26558
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 8/13/2007
Member: #1645
4/15/2009  5:10 PM
Posted by TMS:
So 9 GMs view the draft in this order...

#1 Griffin (10 Top 10 Votes - rated # 1)
#2 Rubio (10 Top 10 Votes - rated #2)
#3 Thabeet (10 Top 10 Votes - rated #3)
#4 Harden (10 Top 10 Votes - rated #4)
#5 Hill (10 Top 10 Votes - rated #5)
#6 Evans (9 Top 10 Votes - rated #6)
#7 Aminu (5 Top 10 votes -- ranked between 7 - 10)
#8 Curry (5 Top 10 Votes -- ranked between 7-10)
#9 Teague (5 Top 10 Votes -- ranked between 7-10)
#10 Lawson (5 Top 10 Votes -- ranked between 7-10)
#11 Clark (4 Top 10 Votes)
#12 Flynn (3 Top 10 Votes)
#13 - 18 (in no particular order were Blair, J. Johnson, Mullens, Jennings, Henderson and Derozan)

how can u possibly still have Harden so high up in the list yet the guy who completely dominated him in the NCAA tourney (Derozan) isn't even rated in the top 12... that doesn't make any sense to me... Derozan's so much more of an athlete than Harden is it's not even funny & he's already got an NBA ready body, & he made Harden look pretty bad the last time they went head to head.

This wasn't my ranking it was the ranking per the voting of the 9 GMS.

Top 5 guys received 10 votes, Evans, 9 votes - 7-10 received 5 votes each, Clark 4, Flynn 3 and the #13-#18 received 1 vote each.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
4/15/2009  5:22 PM
Posted by LivingLegend:
Posted by TMS:
So 9 GMs view the draft in this order...

#1 Griffin (10 Top 10 Votes - rated # 1)
#2 Rubio (10 Top 10 Votes - rated #2)
#3 Thabeet (10 Top 10 Votes - rated #3)
#4 Harden (10 Top 10 Votes - rated #4)
#5 Hill (10 Top 10 Votes - rated #5)
#6 Evans (9 Top 10 Votes - rated #6)
#7 Aminu (5 Top 10 votes -- ranked between 7 - 10)
#8 Curry (5 Top 10 Votes -- ranked between 7-10)
#9 Teague (5 Top 10 Votes -- ranked between 7-10)
#10 Lawson (5 Top 10 Votes -- ranked between 7-10)
#11 Clark (4 Top 10 Votes)
#12 Flynn (3 Top 10 Votes)
#13 - 18 (in no particular order were Blair, J. Johnson, Mullens, Jennings, Henderson and Derozan)

how can u possibly still have Harden so high up in the list yet the guy who completely dominated him in the NCAA tourney (Derozan) isn't even rated in the top 12... that doesn't make any sense to me... Derozan's so much more of an athlete than Harden is it's not even funny & he's already got an NBA ready body, & he made Harden look pretty bad the last time they went head to head.

This wasn't my ranking it was the ranking per the voting of the 9 GMS.

Top 5 guys received 10 votes, Evans, 9 votes - 7-10 received 5 votes each, Clark 4, Flynn 3 and the #13-#18 received 1 vote each.

i know it wasn't ur vote... i was speaking in general bro... i just don't get how these GM's think... fine, Harden was the more consistently productive college player this year & his skills are more developed at this stage than Derozan, but i would say that ranking prospects is just as much based on upside potential as it is on already developed skillset, & Derozan's upside is through the roof IMHO... but then again, there's at least 11 GM's who should have been fired for passing up Kobe Bryant in '96 too... when u got guys like Vitaly Potapenko, Todd Fuller, Samaki Walker & Lorenzen Wright being picked over the best player since Michael Jordan is quite possibly the biggest joke of the past 2 decades.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
Posts: 25698
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 6/2/2002
Member: #249
USA
4/15/2009  5:48 PM
^^^^ Yeah, one of my best friends is a Warriors fan and to this day he still talks about the 96-97 drafts which saw the Warriors pass up on Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady for Todd Fuller and Adonal Foyle. Both were picked like right after so they wouldn't have been a stretch. Still distraught, lol.

But in the same vein that many GM's go the safe route and get burned, there are just as many examples of GM's going for unskilled, athletes with upside and getting rocked...which was Fish's earlier point.

*Thinking Derozan could be had in the late first round. *
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
4/15/2009  5:52 PM
no doubt, the draft is always a crap shoot... but personally in the Knicks' current situation, since our 1 & ONLY goal should be on acquiring a franchise type talent to build around right now as step 1, my belief is u have to gamble big to win big... now is not the time to play it safe anymore when it comes to our draft picks... go after the big upside guys & hope for the best... we aren't gonna go anywhere by adding more players w/limited upside who may be a safe choice for the time being but really won't elevate this franchise to any level past mediocre.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
Posts: 25698
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 6/2/2002
Member: #249
USA
4/15/2009  6:09 PM
Posted by TMS:

no doubt, the draft is always a crap shoot... but personally in the Knicks' current situation, since our 1 & ONLY goal should be on acquiring a franchise type talent to build around right now as step 1, my belief is u have to gamble big to win big... now is not the time to play it safe anymore when it comes to our draft picks... go after the big upside guys & hope for the best... we aren't gonna go anywhere by adding more players w/limited upside who may be a safe choice for the time being but really won't elevate this franchise to any level past mediocre.

True...but then again, the Knicks dont have all their hopes and dreams locked up in the '09 draft. We're trying to build a team that will compliment the star players that we bring in via free agency or through a trade. We dont have to draft a star. So getting a good player as opposed to aiming high and getting a complete bust might not be the worst thing right now.

We have a lot to lose if we get this pick wrong, again.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
LivingLegend
Posts: 26558
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 8/13/2007
Member: #1645
4/15/2009  7:03 PM
Posted by TMS:

no doubt, the draft is always a crap shoot... but personally in the Knicks' current situation, since our 1 & ONLY goal should be on acquiring a franchise type talent to build around right now as step 1, my belief is u have to gamble big to win big... now is not the time to play it safe anymore when it comes to our draft picks... go after the big upside guys & hope for the best... we aren't gonna go anywhere by adding more players w/limited upside who may be a safe choice for the time being but really won't elevate this franchise to any level past mediocre.

That's one way to look at it....

Another way Knicks management could look at things would be relative to surrounding a STAR free agent player with solid unselfish players.

For example with Steph Curry --- if you are the Knicks and you really believe in his skill (arguably the highest offensive skill level in the entire draft -- taking shooting, passing and scoring into consideration). You may be thinking -- if I could get (2) great shooters in Gallo and Curry and surround them with solid players like Lee and Wilson (maybe Nate) and just add one STAR to the mix then things will take off.

For example -- who would be a better fit with Lebron or Wade between Curry and Evans. Some people might think Evans but with a Lebron or Wade Evans would have the ball less often and possibly be required to spot up. In this instance having players like a Curry and a Gallo to space the floor might work better. Along those lines both Gallo and Curry seem to be very good teammates (unselfish) -- what better players to surround a STAR with.

Just saying -- if they really thing they'll nab a STAR -- they could be looking at chemistry and skill that fits over outstanding athletes that might get lost in the shuffle.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
4/15/2009  7:22 PM
support players are much easier to acquire... u can't focus your mode of operation on acquiring support level players until u first land the guy you're trying to build around... that's like building a house before the foundation is even set... the house is gonna sink into the ground unless u have a solid foundation to build upon... u only know what type of support players to go after that will complement the guy you're trying to build around AFTER u get that guy you wanna build around... who knows who we'll be getting in 2010? if u put all ur eggs into Lebron or D Wade u'r not being smart... u have to focus on the draft, get as many topnotch upside players as possible & then go from there... that's what will bring u the assets that will pave the way for a possible blockbuster trade in the future, or a possible franchise guy to hold onto if that prospect is one u wanna keep... we've been drafting supplementary type talent for the past decade & it's gotten us nowhere... we need to start shooting for big upside guys who can potentially grow into star player... enough w/the safe pick approach.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 6/14/2005
Member: #910
USA
4/15/2009  8:38 PM
No Brackins on that list huh? That's interesting.


Also - saying that Griffo is a no-brainer because he dominated college ball is not valid. There are plenty of guys who dominate college ball that do not project to the NBA for the same reasons that Griffo may have problems in the NBA.

Dude is 6'7", I guarantee that. Dude can't shoot at all yet, we know that.

College performance does not equal or guarantee pro performance. Its all a projection.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
LivingLegend
Posts: 26558
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 8/13/2007
Member: #1645
4/16/2009  11:34 AM
Posted by TMS:

support players are much easier to acquire... u can't focus your mode of operation on acquiring support level players until u first land the guy you're trying to build around... that's like building a house before the foundation is even set... the house is gonna sink into the ground unless u have a solid foundation to build upon... u only know what type of support players to go after that will complement the guy you're trying to build around AFTER u get that guy you wanna build around... who knows who we'll be getting in 2010? if u put all ur eggs into Lebron or D Wade u'r not being smart... u have to focus on the draft, get as many topnotch upside players as possible & then go from there... that's what will bring u the assets that will pave the way for a possible blockbuster trade in the future, or a possible franchise guy to hold onto if that prospect is one u wanna keep... we've been drafting supplementary type talent for the past decade & it's gotten us nowhere... we need to start shooting for big upside guys who can potentially grow into star player... enough w/the safe pick approach.

This comes down to the old notion of Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

At #8 -- we could be faced with a Curry vs. Derozan choice (as one example).

Most might think that Derozan has the higher star (ceiling) potential down the road.

But weighing all factors -- Walsh and D'Antoni may feel that Curry is the perfect fit for their system.

I don't know if that's the case but choosing on potential doesn't always result in that potential being realized.

I could very well see the Knicks selection coming down to 3 guys -- Curry, Flynn and Derozan....I'm actually torn on all 3 because I like each.

Does anyone else here think that Walsh may view Curry as a Reggie Miller type player....though smaller and more of a point. If so -- we shouldn't be surprised if Donnie goes with him. One thing Donnie mentioned early in his tenure was that the Knicks were desperate for outside shooting. Hence we saw the Gallinari pick and now we may see the Curry pick. Just my theory.
kingofelpaso
Posts: 20270
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/3/2009
Member: #2542
4/16/2009  11:43 AM
I said it before,

Im OK with Curry as the pick. I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that in all likelihood that Ricky Rubio will not be an option
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
4/16/2009  5:45 PM
if Walsh takes Curry over Derozan he deserves to be fired IMHO... if Curry was 6'5" i can see the Reggie Miller comparisons, but he's not... he's another in a long line of undersized SG's & he's not even as good as Ben Gordon, so how much success do u really project he's gonna have at the NBA level? i just can't see any possible justification for picking a role player upside prospect over one w/as much upside as Derozan has... just my personal opinion.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Paladin55
Posts: 24321
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/6/2008
Member: #2098
4/16/2009  6:44 PM
Posted by TMS:

if Walsh takes Curry over Derozan he deserves to be fired IMHO... if Curry was 6'5" i can see the Reggie Miller comparisons, but he's not... he's another in a long line of undersized SG's & he's not even as good as Ben Gordon, so how much success do u really project he's gonna have at the NBA level? i just can't see any possible justification for picking a role player upside prospect over one w/as much upside as Derozan has... just my personal opinion.

I think the only way we take Curry is if Walsh and MDA think he can be their PG of the future. They just have to know that he is too small and not strong enough to be a SG in the NBA. If he can't be a PG he actually projects, IMO, to be another version of his dad- a 25MPG sniper who averages 12-15 PPG and earns more minutes in a particular game if his shot is dropping that night.

If he gains some extra muscle, shows he can go to the basket in his workouts, and gives the Knicks an indication he can be an NBA PG, the Knicks might actually think about taking him, but if they don't think he can play PG for MDA they should take a pass on him.

I'd prefer DeRozan, but...

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 04-16-2009 6:44 PM]
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
4/16/2009  6:58 PM
Posted by TMS:

if Walsh takes Curry over Derozan he deserves to be fired IMHO... if Curry was 6'5" i can see the Reggie Miller comparisons, but he's not... he's another in a long line of undersized SG's & he's not even as good as Ben Gordon, so how much success do u really project he's gonna have at the NBA level? i just can't see any possible justification for picking a role player upside prospect over one w/as much upside as Derozan has... just my personal opinion.

I think people kind of caught on with Evans but not so much with Derozan--although that can change.
The problem with Derozan is he just gaev a small 9 game sampling of what he is capable of BUT that was a pretty d am good sample. MOST of the season he was kind of just in the flow and some of his skills or lack there of exposed him a bit. But just like you cannot teach height you cannot teach flight. He was showing improved skills and what he is capable of especially in a higher tempo type game. His PHYSICAL talent is pick 2 in this draft--he has Kone Bryant like physical abilities. He is NOT Gerald green 2 and he is NOT 6-2 inch Harold Minor--this is a 6-7 G who hs the chance to be a star type player in the NBA. Let me tell you something about the Knicks--we never ever ever pick a player like this ever. Were smarter than everyone else--we want a skill player who is going to be Mike D personal head on the court. Lets not F this up again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RWImTy6p9w&feature=related
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
4/16/2009  7:08 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:

if Walsh takes Curry over Derozan he deserves to be fired IMHO... if Curry was 6'5" i can see the Reggie Miller comparisons, but he's not... he's another in a long line of undersized SG's & he's not even as good as Ben Gordon, so how much success do u really project he's gonna have at the NBA level? i just can't see any possible justification for picking a role player upside prospect over one w/as much upside as Derozan has... just my personal opinion.

I think people kind of caught on with Evans but not so much with Derozan--although that can change.
The problem with Derozan is he just gaev a small 9 game sampling of what he is capable of BUT that was a pretty d am good sample. MOST of the season he was kind of just in the flow and some of his skills or lack there of exposed him a bit. But just like you cannot teach height you cannot teach flight. He was showing improved skills and what he is capable of especially in a higher tempo type game. His PHYSICAL talent is pick 2 in this draft--he has Kone Bryant like physical abilities. He is NOT Gerald green 2 and he is NOT 6-2 inch Harold Minor--this is a 6-7 G who hs the chance to be a star type player in the NBA. Let me tell you something about the Knicks--we never ever ever pick a player like this ever. Were smarter than everyone else--we want a skill player who is going to be Mike D personal head on the court. Lets not F this up again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RWImTy6p9w&feature=related

it's really too bad for Derozan that USC got eliminated so early from the Tourney cuz otherwise DD would be a consensus #2-3 pick by now IMO... but good thing for the Knicks that didn't happen cuz there's actually a slim chance he'll be on the board when we pick according to some mock draft boards out there... i still don't see any way he drops that low but who knows, like i pointed out before if Kobe Bryant of all people can fall that low then Derozan can too obviously... all these GM's who take the safe pick run the risk of passing up the next Kobe, & while i dunno if Derozan has that type of potential, he definitely has the physical ability... whether he has the same determination & drive that Kobe has to be the best player on the planet is doubtful but if he even has a little bit of that then he'll be as good if not better than guys like Jason Richardson & Rudy Gay... i don't think it's that much of a reach to project this kid's got a pretty good chance to be as good as someone like Vince Carter or T-Mac if he continues to progress the way he did the latter part of his freshman year.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
4/16/2009  7:14 PM
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
4/16/2009  7:16 PM
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
4/16/2009  7:17 PM
Jrue Holiday who???

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
4/16/2009  7:22 PM
James Harden who???



After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
4/16/2009  7:57 PM
Posted by TMS:


Looks like he has an effective spin move
Page 3 of 4 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Here is an interesting article
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy