Posted by tkf:

Posted by BlueSeats:

These are combined snippets of two interview sessions on separate days. IOW, after his blunder he did back down and clean it up, he jest kept going.


"Don't get me wrong -- I love Jason Kidd. He's a great point guard," Marbury said. "(But) how am I comparing myself to him when I think I'm the best point guard to play basketball? That doesn't make any sense. I mean, how can I sit here and compare myself to somebody if I already think I'm the best?

"I'm telling you what it is: I know I'm the best point guard in the NBA. I don't need anybody else to tell me that. When I go on the basketball court, if I think about what you're all saying, I'll lose my mind."

"He's just like me," Marbury said of Kidd at yesterday's morning shootaround before the Nets beat the Knicks, 93-87. "He's a loser. We're both losers. Neither of us have won a championship. Tim Duncan is a winner. Kevin Garnett is a loser just like me. Charles Barkley is a loser just like me. [TNT partner] Kenny Smith is a winner.

"Magic [Johnson], Michael Jordan, [Larry] Bird, those guys are winners. Kobe [Bryant] and Shaquille [O'Neal] are winners. Isiah Thomas is a winner. Until you win championships, we're just like everyone else. It doesn't matter how far you get in the playoffs. It doesn't matter if you get to the Finals. You lost."

Marbury didn't back down from his New Year's boast that he considers himself the "best point guard in basketball."

"I'm just saying reality and answered a question," Marbury said. "I already know I'm the best point guard. It's like asking if it's raining outside. You're going to tell them it's raining."



After playing above .500 ball up until these statements we went immediately into a 3-16 (I'm goin off memory) skid upon them.

I think Brian Scalabrini makes sens of it:

WFAN interview:

Carlin: A couple of weeks ago Stephon Marbury makes the comment that he feels like he's the best point guard in the league. When the Nets hear something like that, and you have Jason Kidd on the team, are their any raised eyebrows going around?

Scalabrine: OK here's the difference. When Steph makes that comment, I dont know, I mean I'm not in the locker room, but I don't know if the Knicks have his back. But when Steph makes that comment about Jason, we were like "we are not losing this game against the Knicks, we can't let this happen." We have Jason's back and Jason has our back. And I think you know Steph is a very good player, you know he's very talented. But you know I'd run through a wall for Jason and Jason would run through a wall for us. That pretty much shows that he's the best point guard. When you have a guy like that and you'll do anything for him and he'll do anything for you that pretty much sums up the best point guard ever.

bluest, you know I remember these quotes.. remember the conversations we used to have on this? LOL..

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by islesfan:
Isn't Lee having a career year?

Murphy's rebounding is much higher than any of the 8 years he's been in the league. Thats having a career year.

Lee is has always been a great rebounder. He's always scored at a freakishly high %. He's got 3 years experience and this is his first as a starter. I dont think you can use the phrase "career year" for anyone still in a rookie contract. At least I wouldnt but I try to look at these things objectively.

Murphy is a good rebounder. Always has been. But he's overpaid for a guy that is so one dimensional. Lee isnt one dimensional. He's the 2nd best rebounder in the league. He scores.. a lot. His FG% is Shaq like. Lee does not create his own shot, and that is a 100% fair knock on him because elite players can get their own shot. Not part of Lee's game (yet). But Lee is one of the league's most consistant players and his numbers are a reflection of that. He's not going to win you the game one on one in the last 20 seconds, but his production can keep you close enough to make that shot worth it. You disagree? (its really slow at work when I engage you)

Huh?

Murphy: Current Rebounding Ave - 11.7 Previous career high - 10.8 Difference - 0.9 rebs per game

Lee: Current Rebounding Avg - 11.9 Previous career high - 10.4 Difference - 1.5 rebs per game

What are you talking about? And why do you keep bringing up other things like their contracts and FG%? Can we please stay on topic? You had a problem with my calling Lee a "pretty good" rebounder yet call Murphy a "good" rebounder despite there being a difference of 0.2 reb a game. Then you completely ignore the fact that Lee has many more chances at rebounds than the league average and dismiss Murphy's numbers as being a career year. Despite the fact that his current avg is less than 1 rebound more than his previous career high, and is less of a difference than Lee's.

I love the little jab, as if I'm not looking at this objectively but you are. Is this the point in the conversation where you make it personal and run away? Feel free to disengage. Or better yet, discuss it with nyk4ever, who clearly understands what I'm talking about.

Posted by :

way more than the edge. Only thing keeping them close is Murphy's career rebounding year. He shoots what? like 46% from the field (Isles you have the stats handy, correct me if I am wrong). Lee shoots over 55% and most of his points come in the paint. Shooting the ball 10% better puts you a shelf above the other guy.

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by islesfan:
Isn't Lee having a career year?

Murphy's rebounding is much higher than any of the 8 years he's been in the league. Thats having a career year.

Lee is has always been a great rebounder. He's always scored at a freakishly high %. He's got 3 years experience and this is his first as a starter. I dont think you can use the phrase "career year" for anyone still in a rookie contract. At least I wouldnt but I try to look at these things objectively.

Murphy is a good rebounder. Always has been. But he's overpaid for a guy that is so one dimensional. Lee isnt one dimensional. He's the 2nd best rebounder in the league. He scores.. a lot. His FG% is Shaq like. Lee does not create his own shot, and that is a 100% fair knock on him because elite players can get their own shot. Not part of Lee's game (yet). But Lee is one of the league's most consistant players and his numbers are a reflection of that. He's not going to win you the game one on one in the last 20 seconds, but his production can keep you close enough to make that shot worth it. You disagree? (its really slow at work when I engage you)

Huh?

Murphy: Current Rebounding Ave - 11.7 Previous career high - 10.8 Difference - 0.9 rebs per game

Lee: Current Rebounding Avg - 11.9 Previous career high - 10.4 Difference - 1.5 rebs per game

What are you talking about? And why do you keep bringing up other things like their contracts and FG%? Can we please stay on topic? You had a problem with my calling Lee a "pretty good" rebounder yet call Murphy a "good" rebounder despite there being a difference of 0.2 reb a game. Then you completely ignore the fact that Lee has many more chances at rebounds than the league average and dismiss Murphy's numbers as being a career year. Despite the fact that his current avg is less than 1 rebound more than his previous career high, and is less of a difference than Lee's.

I love the little jab, as if I'm not looking at this objectively but you are. Is this the point in the conversation where you make it personal and run away? Feel free to disengage. Or better yet, discuss it with nyk4ever, who clearly understands what I'm talking about.

Isles, I dont need to make anything personal. Everyone here knows your stance on the Knicks and the Knick players. You have been abundantly clear over the years on this.

The FG% and other stats started when coke made the Troy Murphy comparison. That was in regards to the player. So FG% and other stats are relevent.

Want to focus on rebounding? More than happy to.

Lee is not a pretty good rebounder. He's one of the best in the league.
Is Murphy a better rebounder? In my opinion no. Murphy is having a great year but its not consistant with his previous 7.

And the objection comment was not a jab, its as obvious as night and day. Thats ok. You have your entertaining moments here. I have enjoyed many of them myself.

Per 48 minute stats dont take into account that you actually need to be good enough to get those minutes in the first place. Part of being a league leader is your on the floor enough to earn those stats.

Hey Jerome James scored 29.3 ppg this season (per 48 minutes). Good stat

So...

to sum up this thread.

Is David Lee and "elite" player?

In my opinion no. However I had no problem with his statements as he's improved every year and his 4th year in the league is a borderline all star. He's got a long way to go before he is an elite player. Isles mentioned the inability to create his own shot as one. I agree

Coke mentioned he's not even as good as Troy Murphy.

That prompted me to argue that Lee is better at everything than Murphy, and the only stat they are similar in is rebounding, and that is only because Murphy is having a career year.

Isle then used his basketball knowledge (the internet) to prove... well, I'm not exactly sure what? That the 2nd leading rebounder in the league is at best "a pretty good rebounder?"

As for "this is the part where you disengage" can you blame me?

your funny

D'Antoni's system has been known to bolster player's stats. We play a 7 second or less shot system, in which the first peron with a open shot shoots the ball. In this system, our team shoots 44.5%, which means that 55.5% of the time, David Lee has a chance to make a rebound. Furthermore, majority of our shots tend to be jumpshots, which are mostly taken by our second best rebounder, Al Harrington. Basically this gives David Lee, more opportunities to grab a rebound than most players in the league. Imagine Dwight Howard on this team. He would average 25 rpg! Troy Murphy is on a team that shoots a higher shooting percentage (45.1%) and plays in a slower, playcalling offense. Let's not forget, Troy Murphy plays less minutes than David Lee. And even with all that he averages only .2 less rebounds than Lee. As for the shooting percentages of the two players, David Lee shoots 61.9% when he is 5ft or within from the basket on 494 attempts. On his 173 shoot attempts outside 5ft David Lee is shooting 37.5% (Yes even with his improved jumpsot). Troy Murphy shoots 60.% from 5 ft and in on 145 attempts and shoots 43.3 % from 3pt range with 263 attempts. If Murphy (who shoots 47% from the field for the season) shot as many high percentage shots as David Lee, he would have a higher shooting percentage. Unfortunately, David Lee will be overpaid in the summmer and you guys will bitch about how much money we gave him 3 years from now.

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by Cookdcokehop:

D'Antoni's system has been known to bolster player's stats. We play a 7 second or less shot system, in which the first peron with a open shot shoots the ball. In this system, our team shoots 44.5%, which means that 55.5% of the time, David Lee has a chance to make a rebound. Furthermore, majority of our shots tend to be jumpshots, which are mostly taken by our second best rebounder, Al Harrington. Basically this gives David Lee, more opportunities to grab a rebound than most players in the league. Imagine Dwight Howard on this team. He would average 25 rpg! Troy Murphy is on a team that shoots a higher shooting percentage (45.1%) and plays in a slower, playcalling offense. Let's not forget, Troy Murphy plays less minutes than David Lee. And even with all that he averages only .2 less rebounds than Lee. As for the shooting percentages of the two players, David Lee shoots 61.9% when he is 5ft or within from the basket on 494 attempts. On his 173 shoot attempts outside 5ft David Lee is shooting 37.5% (Yes even with his improved jumpsot). Troy Murphy shoots 60.% from 5 ft and in on 145 attempts and shoots 43.3 % from 3pt range with 263 attempts. If Murphy (who shoots 47% from the field for the season) shot as many high percentage shots as David Lee, he would have a higher shooting percentage. Unfortunately, David Lee will be overpaid in the summmer and you guys will bitch about how much money we gave him 3 years from now.

Last two years Lee rebounded just as well as he has this year. The fact that we jack so many 3's hurts Lee, it doesnt help. Lee is a garbage collecter and follows guards to the basket. Problem is our guards dont go there enough.

Lee's #s are up because his minutes are, not because of MDAs system.

And those are the most bizaare stats about shooting range ever. Why is my 6'10 powerforward taking half his shots from 15 feet away? you make it sound like a good thing!

As for bitching about the money what do you propose? Let him walk for nothing? Maybe just let him play for the QA and dont resign him? Thanks for the 5 years adios? What would you do if you were GM (aside from trade him for Kobe)

I dont consider 6 additional mpg a huge increase in playing time (30 last yr from 36 now). Troy Murphy would easily average 20 and 15 in this system. If we had a better scorers/shooters on this team, Lee rebounds would decrease and so would his points (majority of his points are second chance points).

If I was the GM of the Knicks, I would auction off Lee in a sign and trade deal, where we get expirings and picks in return.

Posted by fishmike:

20 and 15 for Troy Murphy? So he's better than Amare Stoudemire and Marion? Why didnt they aveage 15 boards? Seriously.. you guys act like MDA just double's stats. 6 minutes will make a big difference in stats. Thats a 20% swing in minutes.

Picks and expirings? Who are you going to draft?

If what Lee brings is so easy to just find, sign or draft in the league than why arent there more guys going out and getting their teams a dozen boards a night and shooting 55%?

Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Posted by fishmike:

20 and 15 for Troy Murphy? So he's better than Amare Stoudemire and Marion? Why didnt they aveage 15 boards? Seriously.. you guys act like MDA just double's stats. 6 minutes will make a big difference in stats. Thats a 20% swing in minutes.

Picks and expirings? Who are you going to draft?

If what Lee brings is so easy to just find, sign or draft in the league than why arent there more guys going out and getting their teams a dozen boards a night and shooting 55%?

I'm what you call a traditional basketball fan. I ove the glitz and glam of the new offense but I know in the long run, it won't bring a championship to New York. We need a player that can block shots. David Lee will never do that for us. David Lee looks good on paper because of stats but he won't win you a championship. Honestly I'd rather have Jason Maxiell than David Lee....idk thats just how I feel.

Dude, why are you even bothering? He thinks that Lee's rebounding average going up from 9 to 12, shows the same kind of production but Murphy's rebounding average being up 0.9 over his previous career high, is some sort of statistical anomaly.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by ActionJackson:

So our current golden boy David "I'll bang it on you w/either hand" Lee had this to say to an ESPN reporter

So I'm starting to believe more and more that I can be one of the best power forwards-slash-centers in the league. And I think the numbers reflect that . .

This sounds alot like Brother Marbury's declaration that he felt he was the best Point Guard in the the league but I wonder how it will be played out in the local (& national) media. now I know they're just words & it really is about actions on the B-Ball court but you cant help feeling like some players are castigated for their words while others are given a pass or benefit of doubt.

Interested in my UK brethrens opinions...

at least Steph taught our young players something before he left.

Posted by ActionJackson:

So our current golden boy David "I'll bang it on you w/either hand" Lee had this to say to an ESPN reporter

So I'm starting to believe more and more that I can be one of the best power forwards-slash-centers in the league. And I think the numbers reflect that . .

This sounds alot like Brother Marbury's declaration that he felt he was the best Point Guard in the the league but I wonder how it will be played out in the local (& national) media. now I know they're just words & it really is about actions on the B-Ball court but you cant help feeling like some players are castigated for their words while others are given a pass or benefit of doubt.

Interested in my UK brethrens opinions...