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Is there even one person who works for the Knicks in the scouting dept that didnt have Lopez ahead o
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martin
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2/3/2009  11:38 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Martin, let me be clear. We passed the Larry Bird comparisons to go back to the Dirk comparisons and now we finally landed at the Jordan comparisons? What a trip in under 7 months.

At this point though, what's done is done. I like him at the SG position and having Q or Chandler play the better offensive player of the 2 or 3. Hey maybe Martin is right and this kid is the next Jordan type player.

if you think I just compared Jordan to Gallo, ie Gallo is the next Jordan, you missed my point entirely, ie you're trippin'.
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Pharzeone
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2/3/2009  11:40 PM
Posted by PresIke:

BRIGGS, I love you, and I think you bring a lot of good insights, but a lot of folks weren't that high on Lopez.

I saw him play not too long ago against the Knicks and he didn't look that great.

Potential?

Sure.

But Gallo has played far less games, and showed us quite a bit, no?

C'mon man. It's already been done.

I don't see Lopez being that ideal for us. He was not that great of a rebounder or shot blocker in college.

I was much higher on your boy Thabeet for us. We'll see what happens, but maybe we should be a but careful about panicking just yet.

Tell that to a Piston fan who was panicking right after Dar... came out of Stern's mouth and said no it goes Carmelo. Boy if Dumars didn't win that title he would be sitting in a ward with his pal Isiah. Hopefully, Donnie can get to that title before some of these guys really begin to take off.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BlueSeats
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2/3/2009  11:40 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:


At this point though, what's done is done. I like him at the SG position and having Q or Chandler play the better offensive player of the 2 or 3.


Just out of curiosity, has there ever been a 6'10 SG? (Putting aside guys like Bron and Magic, who could play any position on the floor.) Some coaches my use funky lineups where the positions tend to blur, but one usually needs to be a bit better ballhandler and fleet of foot to play the 2. DG looks much more like a 3 to me.
Pharzeone
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2/3/2009  11:42 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Martin, let me be clear. We passed the Larry Bird comparisons to go back to the Dirk comparisons and now we finally landed at the Jordan comparisons? What a trip in under 7 months.

At this point though, what's done is done. I like him at the SG position and having Q or Chandler play the better offensive player of the 2 or 3. Hey maybe Martin is right and this kid is the next Jordan type player.

if you think I just compared Jordan to Gallo, ie Gallo is the next Jordan, you missed my point entirely, ie you're trippin'.

Oh I understand your point but you are trying to place Gallo in the status of a Jordan no brainer pick. That's what I am trying to wrap my head around. He was at best what we were saying what Donnie considered the BPA, not a no brainer pick.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
martin
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2/3/2009  11:49 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Martin, let me be clear. We passed the Larry Bird comparisons to go back to the Dirk comparisons and now we finally landed at the Jordan comparisons? What a trip in under 7 months.

At this point though, what's done is done. I like him at the SG position and having Q or Chandler play the better offensive player of the 2 or 3. Hey maybe Martin is right and this kid is the next Jordan type player.

if you think I just compared Jordan to Gallo, ie Gallo is the next Jordan, you missed my point entirely, ie you're trippin'.

Oh I understand your point but you are trying to place Gallo in the status of a Jordan no brainer pick. That's what I am trying to wrap my head around. He was at best what we were saying what Donnie considered the BPA, not a no brainer pick.

The Jordan example was one of position over potential. Sam Bowie over Jordan cause Portland already had Clyde.
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PresIke
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2/3/2009  11:49 PM
phar, with all due respect, why the comparison to darko?

because he's not american?

why do we always compare non-american players (which for some reason so many call euros, even when they might be from south america) to each other?

should all white players be compared to other white players?

this seems inherently prejudice, and why we keep such stereotypes, imho.

this isn't a great argument, and gallo already looks far more talented than darko, imho, and it's not even close.

darko was VERY young, while gallo is a bit more polished, and just turned 20.

this is not a darko vs. mello debate.

brooks lopez fell to late lotto.

why are the knicks the only team we care about who passed on him?

so did several others.

look, frye was great as a rookie too, and lopez may turn out to be great.

i was high on gordon, and i'd say for all we know he could be another marbury.

"sexy" stats are not the be all say all of a good player.

i'll leave you with this...

remember tony campbell, charles smith, pervis ellison, and the combo of jimmy jackson and jamall mashburn, each averaged over 20 pts a game when VERY young.

Those guys would be the envy of all of the ppg basic stat game obsessed folks on this forum today. i would bet any amount of money (if i had any, and i'm not a gambling man AT ALL) on that.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Pharzeone
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2/3/2009  11:54 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Martin, let me be clear. We passed the Larry Bird comparisons to go back to the Dirk comparisons and now we finally landed at the Jordan comparisons? What a trip in under 7 months.

At this point though, what's done is done. I like him at the SG position and having Q or Chandler play the better offensive player of the 2 or 3. Hey maybe Martin is right and this kid is the next Jordan type player.

if you think I just compared Jordan to Gallo, ie Gallo is the next Jordan, you missed my point entirely, ie you're trippin'.

Oh I understand your point but you are trying to place Gallo in the status of a Jordan no brainer pick. That's what I am trying to wrap my head around. He was at best what we were saying what Donnie considered the BPA, not a no brainer pick.

The Jordan example was one of position over potential. Sam Bowie over Jordan cause Portland already had Clyde.

I understand what you are saying just that I can't believe that you believe that Gallinari's "potential" is something that want to use in comparison to that of a Jordan who everyone knew was coming out. Gallinari before the season was seen as only an average European talent in what was viewed as a rather weak European stock for the 2008 draft unlike years past. Also, still amazing is that you think that Donnie believed that Curry was such a superior talent that he could forgo drafting at a position that the Knicks were and are still in need of at the center position.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Anji
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2/3/2009  11:55 PM
DG is a three and Lopez is very good.


Forgetting about the Dwight Howards and Tim Duncans of the world, you look at bigs like Yao and Amare and Okafur.............. 12 points and 8 boards is about what they did year one. I didn't like DG at 6 one bit.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Pharzeone
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2/4/2009  12:02 AM
Posted by PresIke:

phar, with all due respect, why the comparison to darko?

because he's not american?

why do we always compare non-american players (which for some reason so many call euros, even when they might be from south america) to each other?

should all white players be compared to other white players?

this seems inherently prejudice, and why we keep such stereotypes, imho.

this isn't a great argument, and gallo already looks far more talented than darko, imho, and it's not even close.

darko was VERY young, while gallo is a bit more polished, and just turned 20.

this is not a darko vs. mello debate.

brooks lopez fell to late lotto.

why are the knicks the only team we care about who passed on him?

so did several others.

look, frye was great as a rookie too, and lopez may turn out to be great.

i was high on gordon, and i'd say for all we know he could be another marbury.

"sexy" stats are not the be all say all of a good player.

i'll leave you with this...

remember tony campbell, charles smith, pervis ellison, and the combo of jimmy jackson and jamall mashburn, each averaged over 20 pts a game when VERY young.

Those guys would be the envy of all of the ppg basic stat game obsessed folks on this forum today. i would bet any amount of money (if i had any, and i'm not a gambling man AT ALL) on that.

The comparison to Darko is because that an unknown prospect was chosen over much more scouted players in the likes of
1) Carmelo Anthony
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Chris Bosh
Joe Dumars indicates that will be on his resume and mind for years to come. Ed Tapscott has Ron Artest that follows him, Dumar has those 3 players. Once again you are trying to justify the selection indicating this glowing scouting report of Gallinari, as I just pointed out to Martin, the draft pundits who scouted this kid for years said he was average prospect in a very weak draft for Europeans. If you want to compare draft stocks then Gallinari wouldn't even be in Darko's class. Who some scouts believe would be 1B to Lebron (Chad Ford was the only who projected him to pass Lebron) and the next dominate center in the league. Many Detroit fans didn't care about all that. Also, why are we now using his age as an excuse. He is 20 and not the first young player in the league. Most rookies in the lottery are near his age too. Use something other than the "he is only 20" thing.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
martin
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2/4/2009  12:04 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Martin, let me be clear. We passed the Larry Bird comparisons to go back to the Dirk comparisons and now we finally landed at the Jordan comparisons? What a trip in under 7 months.

At this point though, what's done is done. I like him at the SG position and having Q or Chandler play the better offensive player of the 2 or 3. Hey maybe Martin is right and this kid is the next Jordan type player.

if you think I just compared Jordan to Gallo, ie Gallo is the next Jordan, you missed my point entirely, ie you're trippin'.

Oh I understand your point but you are trying to place Gallo in the status of a Jordan no brainer pick. That's what I am trying to wrap my head around. He was at best what we were saying what Donnie considered the BPA, not a no brainer pick.

The Jordan example was one of position over potential. Sam Bowie over Jordan cause Portland already had Clyde.

I understand what you are saying just that I can't believe that you believe that Gallinari's "potential" is something that want to use in comparison to that of a Jordan who everyone knew was coming out. Gallinari before the season was seen as only an average European talent in what was viewed as a rather weak European stock for the 2008 draft unlike years past. Also, still amazing is that you think that Donnie believed that Curry was such a superior talent that he could forgo drafting at a position that the Knicks were and are still in need of at the center position.

I didn't say either of those things. Feel free to speak for yourself.
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Pharzeone
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2/4/2009  12:06 AM
Then why use the Jordan to Bowie example?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
GallOfFame
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2/4/2009  12:07 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Cash:

Gallinari is cleary not channing frye 2.

1-His range is better, and his shot(%) seems much better. That shot looks so sweet.
2-He has much quicker feet, and he has a better mental ability to respond to the game around him on defense
3-He can put the ball on the floor
4-More court vision
etc....
He clearly is less muscular but he is younger and although i don't think he has a great frame for putting on muscle, he can clearly put on more-and his muscle is less of an issue because of his foot speed(and projected position). He is probably also a lot less physical because of the back injury.

Who cares if Gallinari has more range? Is the goal for the Knicks to shoot from 30 feet? How about players who can shoot from 3 feet rebound the ball and block shots--remember those types of players--like the kind that gave us success? We already had Chandler who was promising--it was another blunder even if he's a good player because we bypassed a better player in an area of need. Gallinari gets his shots so far because no one guards him.

with high picks you recommend drafting need over potential? High ho Sam Bowie!

I had Lopez at 3 all year long. I would have never drafted Gallinari --I wouldve taken 10 players over him.


Seriously stop lying you didn't.

Martin when is it ok to bump threads?
martin
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2/4/2009  12:08 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Then why use the Jordan to Bowie example?

cause it's just that, an example. An example of selecting position over potential.
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Pharzeone
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2/4/2009  12:08 AM
Also, Pres, them fools let Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash and O'Neal fall like rocks. Give Grunfeld credit, he tried to use all three of his picks to move up to grab one of them.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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2/4/2009  12:13 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Then why use the Jordan to Bowie example?

cause it's just that, an example. An example of selecting position over potential.

That's what I said. You believe that in the case of Gallinari his potential was special enough over that of Lopez's. I was amazed that he has now been moved into superior potential category. Remember Lopez was a hell of a center prospect as well and was talked about as well (he wasn't Marc Jackson coming into the league).
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Marv
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2/4/2009  12:14 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by islesfan:

Brook Lopez - 22pts 12rebs 2 blocks. Now that's a meaningful 22-12.

Ryan Anderson had a nice game too with 19 pts and 7 boards,

isles i love you dude but you're really nothing more than a troll on this board now. you know that don't you? your knick opinion credibility has gone right down the s**tter.

Oh come on Marv, that's not fair buddy. It's not like I'm second guessing here.

why? because you didn't like the gallo pick from the get go? fine. what about the lee cheap shot? did you watch the nets game? you have something to base the "meaningful 22-12" comment on other than bias and trolldom?

Well it wasn't really a shot at Lee as much as it was a shot at the people who ignored what took place in last night's game and just looked at Lee's stat line to suggest that he had a much better game than he did. I know you, for one, are a more savvy basketball fan than that.

I did watch part of the Nets game including the postgame highlights and analysis and I came to a well informed opinion that Lopez had a very strong game and was one of the big reasons why the Nets easily won tonight.

this thread's carring a lot of heat. here's my beef, obviously a carryover from last night's game thread. I had STATED that lee had a horrible game. then seeing the box score I noted that it's impressive that a guy can struggle that much during a game and still come up with a 22-12 game on 8-16. to me it says the guy's persevering through an off-night, keeping his head in the game and finding ways to contribute rather than fading from sight. it's an important quality to consider in a player, especially when there are live questions re: what to do with lee contract-wise going forward..

So it got met with comments from several cats with the the same droning reactions - "u're just judging him by his stats? Those stats were empty. Watch the game, not the boxscore," etc. in other words, crap responses from people who don't bother to read what they're responding to and have a hard-on to rotely dump on the knicks. Doesn't make for the most scintillating or intelligent conversation. Ergo my lack of patience when I saw you do it again with the brook lopez comment.
martin
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2/4/2009  12:17 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Then why use the Jordan to Bowie example?

cause it's just that, an example. An example of selecting position over potential.

That's what I said. You believe that in the case of Gallinari his potential was special enough over that of Lopez's. I was amazed that he has now been moved into superior potential category. Remember Lopez was a hell of a center prospect as well and was talked about as well (he wasn't Marc Jackson coming into the league).

I do believe Gallo has a higher ceiling than Lopez. Time will tell.
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Pharzeone
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2/4/2009  12:21 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Then why use the Jordan to Bowie example?

cause it's just that, an example. An example of selecting position over potential.

That's what I said. You believe that in the case of Gallinari his potential was special enough over that of Lopez's. I was amazed that he has now been moved into superior potential category. Remember Lopez was a hell of a center prospect as well and was talked about as well (he wasn't Marc Jackson coming into the league).

I do believe Gallo has a higher ceiling than Lopez. Time will tell.

That's all I saying bro. I got it but just amazed that you went with the special potential level as justification. Could be the case as you say.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BRIGGS
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2/4/2009  12:32 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:

BRIGGS, if you want to argue that Lopez is a good talent who has great potential, I have no problem with that. Argue that the Knicks should have drafted position over talent, then you are arguing against yourself a million times over in a losing battle.

Could you let me know why Lopez is only averaging 11 points a game this year? And this is with a compliment of, and I quote you, "quite possibly the best backcourt in the NBA".

Also, who the heck did Lopez get these points against? Second run bench players like Elson Francisco and Gadzuric? World beaters.

Lopez may have put up a good game and has some really goods to put up, but you persuade the masses with caca.

What are Gallinari lovers persuading the masses with?

People used 10 minutes of summer league ball, against players who couldn't carry Elson and Gadzuric's jock, to persuade the masses that Gallinari was a solid pick.

Isn't that worse?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Care to let me know who Lopez was beating up against in this meaningful game?

Come on martin---i saw Lopez play numerous times in two years--I posted about him numerous times--my guess is you didnt know the difference between Brook and Robin until 2 weeks before the draft ---get real dude.
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Pharzeone
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2/4/2009  12:37 AM
Donnie was high on Dampier and drafted some less memorable center prospects so I would have to say that Lopez wasn't high on D'Antoni's list. My real question if Westbrook was still on that board at 6 would both guys still gone with Gallinari. That's intriguing to me.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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Is there even one person who works for the Knicks in the scouting dept that didnt have Lopez ahead o
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