Posted by holfresh:

Posted by Knicksfansince94:

Lee is a role player??? Can you name the last 'role player' that averaged 17 points and 13 rebounds a game? Do role players rank in the top 2 in double-doubles?

I guess the definition of role player has changed on this board.

U Lee guys seems to have a problem with numbers...Lee averages 15.7 pts 11.5 boards not 17 and 13...Bosh takes 16 shots a game not 17...Bosh averages 10 boards a game not 9...

17 and 13 are the post-Zach numbers. Scroll up a little bit and you'll see that that was very clear.

toronto won 47 games 2 years ago.

they won 41 last year after bosh missed 12+ games and tj missed 12+ games.

this year, they traded all their depth for jermaine who also missed 12+ games as did jose. parker is an old 33 and they have no depth at the sg/sf spot. that's why toronto is losing. in the nba today, no team is going to win any game with a good big man if they don't have guards who can score. and toronto has no guards that can score. if parker/manu are not on the spurs, they wouldn't be .500 even with duncan.

but i agree that if you can get two players like amare + joe johnson instead of bosh, you'd be better off. but if all they can get is bosh, then you have to sign him. b/c once the knicks get bosh, they can start taking on crazy salary to surround him with better players.

Posted by King1:

I am not saying Lee is better than Bosh but I think taking a guy that gets 15-11 at 10 million is better than 17 million for 23-9 and he doesnt make his team better or block shots. Bosh wouldnt get more in this offense he already shoots the ball 17 times a game vs Lee 11. Give Lee six more shots he is getting close to 20 a game. Sign Lee and get a 5 million defensive stopper, and you still have money for Joe Johnson for a max. Then when 2011 money opens then you go get another player. We dont have a problem scoring we do have a problem rebounding and Bosh doesnt rebound like Lee. Go draft a big or a shooter and sign Lee and a shot blocker

With or without Lee, we still need Bosh and another star player on this team to go along with guys like Lee. Guys like Galo, Lee and Duhon would work very well with guys like Bosh and possibly Wade (or someone else - trade not out of the question either). This is of course if we don't get Bron. But what we ALSO really need is a fresh center, like the one's we already passed up in Bynum and Lopez.

With a good defensive center, a few star players and whatever we have left, along with some other defensive signings, this team can and should be a complete and well rounded roster, with nothing missing.

So what we need:
Two superstars
A legit center
Good back up center
A few very good off the bench or starting defensive forwards
A few very good off the bench or starting defensive guards

And if any of the above push any of the mentioned below onto the bench, then it would make for a stronger bench.

What we have:
Lee
Duhon
Hopefully Galo
Harrington

Question marks at this time:
Chandler
Nate
Possibly keeping Jeffries

That adds up to 15 spots right there. The rest of the roster can go somewhere else. We are looking for durability, energy guys with as much talent as possible. This kind of team in my opinion would be a well rounded roster.

Posted by King1:

Misterearl why is all the max players go to move different franchises when it has never happened before. If people can beleive 2 max players want to come here then I can dream Horford coming to the knicks lol

it's all going to come down to who the free agents are and if they really want to come to NY. It's that simple folks and by then Donnie should have the money all lined up and waiting for frees to make up their minds.

And if Bron decides not to extend early, then he'll still be on the radar. 'It ain't over till it's over' - Yogi

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by Allanfan20:

This is the type of player you surround a superstar with.

That's generally what role players mean. Players you surround a superstar with that can do their roles. Bosh is a superstar.

Lee can now do multiple things. Meaning he's not a role player. Shaq was surrounded by Kobe and DWade. Were they role players? MJ by Pippen. Role players? Nash by Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson. Role players?

He's better than you think Silverfeul.

this guy ain't worth the max?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-25-2009 1:01 PM]

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by Allanfan20:

This is the type of player you surround a superstar with.

That's generally what role players mean. Players you surround a superstar with that can do their roles. Bosh is a superstar.

Lee can now do multiple things. Meaning he's not a role player. Shaq was surrounded by Kobe and DWade. Were they role players? MJ by Pippen. Role players? Nash by Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson.

There can be multiple superstars on one team Allanfan20. The Kobe and Wade were superstars. Nash and Amare are superstars.
1) Lee is not a superstar. (He cannot create his own shot and he doesn't play much defense.)
2) Bosh is a superstar.

He's better than you think Silverfeul.

Bosh is better than you think Allanfan20. I like David Lee but I will not take him over Chris Bosh. And Lee is not close to being better than any of the players you mentioned.

I never in any way said take him over Allanfan. I also never said don't take Bosh b/c I would love to have Bosh. Also, I disagree with you about lee creating his own shot and playing defense. If you've been watching, he's been getting MUCH better at it.

He's no superstar, you're right, but he's certainly can be a boarderline all star, and you can surround your superstar with someone like that. To me, the important thing with Lee is he's an impact player and he's become a leader, and he's improving every game. He needs to be resigned.

Posted by bitty41:

Everyone take into consideration that Chris Duhon who was at best a back-up point guard prior to this season is now among the leaders in assists. That should tell you that maybe everything we are seeing right now is not necessarily legitimate in terms of the long-term.

When Randolph was playing there was questions everyday if Lee's game had gone down if he was injured. Since Randolph left Lee has been putting up near all-star numbers which I believe that if you put any decent power forward in Lee's position you would see similar results. No other post players jamming the lane, most of the post up plays being run for you, being in the best positions to receive dish off passes and offensive rebounds. It's clearly a great opportunity to amp up a player's numbers. So imo Lee increased numbers has more to do with more a greater involvement in the offensive sets and less to do with actual increased skills.

I disagree completely Bitty. If you haven't noticed, Lee has been making a lot more post moves and has also developed a nice mid range jump shot. To top it off, he's exceptional at moving well without the ball.

He'll put up big numbers in just about any system.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by Allanfan20:

This is the type of player you surround a superstar with.

That's generally what role players mean. Players you surround a superstar with that can do their roles. Bosh is a superstar.

Lee can now do multiple things. Meaning he's not a role player. Shaq was surrounded by Kobe and DWade. Were they role players? MJ by Pippen. Role players? Nash by Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson. Role players?

He's better than you think Silverfeul.

Pippen was the Robin to Jordan's Batman. Same with Kobe and Shaq. Lee is not the second piece to any championship. At best, he's the third piece, like Horace Grant was to Pippen and Jordan. Grant was essential to the Bulls winning those championships, but you remove Pippen and the Jordan and Grant combo isn't enough.

So in essence, if you pair, Lee with Wade or Lebron, it isn't enough. You would still need a player like......Bosh, or a player of that callibre.

[Edited by - uptown on 01-25-2009 2:02 PM]

i don't think bitty is saying lee is a post player. but he plays that role on the team as he is the only one in the post getting the ball.

if the knicks don't re-sign lee, maybe they should swing this type of deal: malik + wilson + lee for josh howard + bass...

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by djsunyc:

i don't think bitty is saying lee is a post player. but he plays that role on the team as he is the only one in the post getting the ball.

if the knicks don't re-sign lee, maybe they should swing this type of deal: malik + wilson + lee for josh howard + bass...

No but Allanfan20 is...

he made not fit the classic definition of a post player but he is getting better at facing up and finishing down there.