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ITS OFFICIAL: We can't rebuild in NY...
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Pharzeone
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1/12/2009  1:55 AM
Posted by TMS:
How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines

woulda been the same, & we woulda been here talking about how Mark Jackson wasn't developing these players & how no one's improved under his coaching.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-11-2009 10:52 PM]

I think there would be an understanding that it is a rebuilding byproduct with a rookie coach and should be expected ala Bryon Scott 1st year with the Nets.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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TMS
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1/12/2009  1:56 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:
How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines

woulda been the same, & we woulda been here talking about how Mark Jackson wasn't developing these players & how no one's improved under his coaching.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-11-2009 10:52 PM]

I think there would be an understanding that it is a rebuilding byproduct with a rookie coach and should be expected ala Bryon Scott 1st year with the Nets.

what about the understanding that MDA is a good coach w/a proven track record & that you need to give any good coach good players to be successful in any sport.
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TMS
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1/12/2009  1:58 AM
Posted by GallOfFame:
Posted by TMS:
How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines

woulda been the same, & we woulda been here talking about how Mark Jackson wasn't developing these players & how no one's improved under his coaching.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-11-2009 10:52 PM]


But what makes a coach Elite. You're implying all coaches are equal in ability.

no, i'm not implying anything like that... i think MDA is 1 of the top coaches in the game... doesn't mean i think he's gonna do much w/this current roster of players tho... like i've been saying all along, u could bring Red Auerbach here to coach these guys & they still wouldn't make the playoffs

as for Mark Jackson, i have no idea how good of a coach he would turn out to be... i think he would be a decent coach at the very least, he understands the NBA game & is well respected in NY... i woulda had no problem had Walsh hired him, but i still woulda had the same expectations for this team this year.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-11-2009 10:59 PM]
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Knicksfan
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1/12/2009  1:58 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Then what is the point of D'Antoni? If he can't coach up bad players and can only win with great players then what good is he really? How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines? We were told that when a D'Antoni is available you have to get him. I am saying what has been his impact that we haven't notice before and how did that translate into making a team better. I saw Pat Riley coach up average players and have a positive influcence. I guess I am waiting for it from D'Antoni. No one seems to be able to answer that other than say 2010 and rebuilding. I get it he can coach Lebron, D Wade and Bosh. But how is that such a great feat? Oh well.

Ah, if we had Mark Jackson here you would probably be asking the same thing only with D'Antoni on the other side. I still wonder what were you expecting from D'Antoni with the same or even worse roster than last season's. With the same players multiple coaches have singled out for needing to learn how to play basketball. What do you call positive influence? Having better numbers? More wins? Improvement while learning a new system, dealing with trades and wearing out because of lack of healthy bodies? So D'Antoni should have everyone's numbers up even if they are a flawed roster? So you are saying D'Antoni is a negative influence?

D'Antoni was brought here for many reasons. First, it's been said that he is a good teacher, which would be good for the team. Second, players like him and his system so he helps recruiting players. What, we can't get a coach like D'Antoni because we are rebuilding? We need to settle for Mark Jackson and the same moans for a different guy because a bad team is having bad results?

Knicks_Fan
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1/12/2009  2:00 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:
How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines

woulda been the same, & we woulda been here talking about how Mark Jackson wasn't developing these players & how no one's improved under his coaching.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-11-2009 10:52 PM]

I think there would be an understanding that it is a rebuilding byproduct with a rookie coach and should be expected ala Bryon Scott 1st year with the Nets.

You look at the roster and you don't get enough understanding that we are rebuilding? So the issue here is that since we are rebuilding we can't have a "veteran" coach and need a rookie one? Is that the issue? Oh God


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Pharzeone
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1/12/2009  2:51 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:
How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines

woulda been the same, & we woulda been here talking about how Mark Jackson wasn't developing these players & how no one's improved under his coaching.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-11-2009 10:52 PM]

I think there would be an understanding that it is a rebuilding byproduct with a rookie coach and should be expected ala Bryon Scott 1st year with the Nets.

You look at the roster and you don't get enough understanding that we are rebuilding? So the issue here is that since we are rebuilding we can't have a "veteran" coach and need a rookie one? Is that the issue? Oh God



What is the hard concept to get. You're not rebuilding with one of the highest paid coaches and still getting the same results. I don't know how else to state it. Knicks are now front and center news in NYC now in the sporting world. It is only going to get rougher now. More questions and criticisms.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Uptown
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1/12/2009  6:38 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Then what is the point of D'Antoni? If he can't coach up bad players and can only win with great players then what good is he really? How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines? We were told that when a D'Antoni is available you have to get him. I am saying what has been his impact that we haven't notice before and how did that translate into making a team better. I saw Pat Riley coach up average players and have a positive influcence. I guess I am waiting for it from D'Antoni. No one seems to be able to answer that other than say 2010 and rebuilding. I get it he can coach Lebron, D Wade and Bosh. But how is that such a great feat? Oh well.

The more you post, the more you are proving the points I stressed iin the first post. Speaking of Riley, the great Pat Riley was the coach of a team last years that lost something like 20 games in a row. Won less than 20 games with a future hall of famer in Dwyane Wade on his team. How is that possible for a Hall of fame coach? Why didn't he coash them up?
Uptown
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1/12/2009  6:52 AM
Part 2

The more you guys post, the more you prove my point.

Islesfan says" Why hasnt' the coach developed the players?" See Impatience. Again, its been 34 games into the year. You can count the pre season aswell, but it takes more than half a season to break players down, then build them back up. Brown was saying the same exact things he couldn't get it done and he had a whole year.

Pharzone says "Why can't he coach them up?" "Mark Jackson could do just as good of a job." See Lastly. Obviously you had a problem with the MDA hire from jump. So he never had a chance unless he pulls miracles out of his a##.
You also compared him to Riley. As I said earlier, Riley was involved in a 20 game losing streak with WAde on his team last year. How is that possible for a great coach? Why didn't he coach them up? Why didnt a team with Wade only win less than 20 games last year?

GAll says "We are losing to NBDL players." See Roster

Guess what my friend, we are the NBDL players. Once you realize that, you'll know what MDA is working with. What makes thie roster better than the Wolves or Thunder? Is it becasue we are NY and are entittled? It certainly aint the roster.
Pharzeone
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1/12/2009  7:37 AM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Then what is the point of D'Antoni? If he can't coach up bad players and can only win with great players then what good is he really? How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines? We were told that when a D'Antoni is available you have to get him. I am saying what has been his impact that we haven't notice before and how did that translate into making a team better. I saw Pat Riley coach up average players and have a positive influcence. I guess I am waiting for it from D'Antoni. No one seems to be able to answer that other than say 2010 and rebuilding. I get it he can coach Lebron, D Wade and Bosh. But how is that such a great feat? Oh well.

The more you post, the more you are proving the points I stressed iin the first post. Speaking of Riley, the great Pat Riley was the coach of a team last years that lost something like 20 games in a row. Won less than 20 games with a future hall of famer in Dwyane Wade on his team. How is that possible for a Hall of fame coach? Why didn't he coash them up?

Wasn't Wade injured for half the season with a brusided shoulder and knee issues? I am not sure what the point is bringing up that unless you want to discuss why Wade shouldn't be be pursued in 2010.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Uptown
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1/12/2009  10:26 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Then what is the point of D'Antoni? If he can't coach up bad players and can only win with great players then what good is he really? How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines? We were told that when a D'Antoni is available you have to get him. I am saying what has been his impact that we haven't notice before and how did that translate into making a team better. I saw Pat Riley coach up average players and have a positive influcence. I guess I am waiting for it from D'Antoni. No one seems to be able to answer that other than say 2010 and rebuilding. I get it he can coach Lebron, D Wade and Bosh. But how is that such a great feat? Oh well.

The more you post, the more you are proving the points I stressed iin the first post. Speaking of Riley, the great Pat Riley was the coach of a team last years that lost something like 20 games in a row. Won less than 20 games with a future hall of famer in Dwyane Wade on his team. How is that possible for a Hall of fame coach? Why didn't he coash them up?

Wasn't Wade injured for half the season with a brusided shoulder and knee issues? I am not sure what the point is bringing up that unless you want to discuss why Wade shouldn't be be pursued in 2010.

Injuries are a part of the game. If you are going to use that as an excuse, how about the fact that we have suffered injuries too. Jeffries has been hurt and seems as if he still is. Curry has been hurt. Gallo, Nate missed time, and Cuttino retired. It works both ways. But I dont see you using that as an excuse to defend this team.
MS
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1/12/2009  10:34 AM
I hate threads like this, and people that talk about rebuilding not being possible in new york. We have had four seasons in a row averaging 32 wins and all we have to show for it is lee and chandler and an injured italian kid. you can rebuild if there is a plan in place.

We would be in perfect position had we made a good decision on curry and would have had mayo if Isiah didn't decide to coach the last week of the season and actually win enough games to **** the franchise even more.

If we had one potential All-Star on the roster there would be some optimism.
TMS
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1/12/2009  10:38 AM
you can rebuild if there is a plan in place.

u sure about that? this is the first time we've had a GM w/an actual plan since Grunfeld & people are still complaining about the results after 2 months.
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BasketballJones
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1/12/2009  10:40 AM
Posted by TMS:
you can rebuild if there is a plan in place.

u sure about that? this is the first time we've had a GM w/an actual plan since Grunfeld & people are still complaining about the results after 2 months.

People can complain they want. It doesn't stop the franchise from executing a plan to rebuild if they're committed to it.

This "You can't rebuild in NY" stuff is nonsense, and always has been.

https:// It's not so hard.
TMS
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1/12/2009  10:43 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by TMS:
you can rebuild if there is a plan in place.

u sure about that? this is the first time we've had a GM w/an actual plan since Grunfeld & people are still complaining about the results after 2 months.

People can complain they want. It doesn't stop the franchise from executing a plan to rebuild if they're committed to it.

This "You can't rebuild in NY" stuff is nonsense, and always has been.

that phrase applies only to the immediate results driven fanbase of NY, not the franchise itself... u have to admit NY fans are unreasonable when it comes to the expectations they apply to their franchises... most lay man fans expect each & every move the franchise makes to net positive results immediately... they don't have a concept of sometimes having to take a few steps back in order to move several steps forward down the road that more patient fans seem to have... i've been preaching the need to tank seasons & clear cap space for a long time so we can attain a franchise calibre talent in the draft or in free agency so we can actually build around someone worth building around & no one ever wants to go that route... "you play to win the game" is the response i always get... now Walsh is actually carrying out that plan & it's damn refreshing, yet people are still unsatisfied.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-12-2009 07:44 AM]
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BasketballJones
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1/12/2009  10:44 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by TMS:
you can rebuild if there is a plan in place.

u sure about that? this is the first time we've had a GM w/an actual plan since Grunfeld & people are still complaining about the results after 2 months.

People can complain they want. It doesn't stop the franchise from executing a plan to rebuild if they're committed to it.

This "You can't rebuild in NY" stuff is nonsense, and always has been.

that phrase applies only to the immediate results driven fanbase of NY, not the franchise itself... u have to admit NY fans are unreasonable when it comes to the expectations they apply to their franchises... most lay man fans expect each & every move the franchise makes to net positive results immediately... they don't have a concept of sometimes having to take a few steps back in order to move several steps forward down the road that more patient fans seem to have.

Wait a sec... So I'm supposed to translate "You can't rebuild in NY" to "Fans will complain if you rebuild in NY?"
https:// It's not so hard.
Knicksfan
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1/12/2009  10:45 AM
Posted by MS:

I hate threads like this, and people that talk about rebuilding not being possible in new york. We have had four seasons in a row averaging 32 wins and all we have to show for it is lee and chandler and an injured italian kid. you can rebuild if there is a plan in place.

We would be in perfect position had we made a good decision on curry and would have had mayo if Isiah didn't decide to coach the last week of the season and actually win enough games to **** the franchise even more.

If we had one potential All-Star on the roster there would be some optimism.

Thats why, at this point early in a plan that we all know should've taken place many seasons ago, the best we can do is be patient because we know the path will get ugly before it gets better. But for a franchise that has experienced ugly for the last 8 years, we should know by now to be patient. But no, since the G-Men lost yesterday now everything centers on the Knicks and how they made a mistake with Walsh, D'Antoni, Gallo, the cap-clearing trades and pretty much anything they do. You can rebuild in NY, but many fans just can't handle it or simply expect certain steps be taken in specific ways like if there is only one possible way to rebuild and the steps are taken in a certain order.


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TMS
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1/12/2009  10:45 AM
Wait a sec... So I'm supposed to translate "You can't rebuild in NY" to "Fans will complain if you rebuild in NY?"

that's the point that was discussed a few posts up last night.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
buddapaw
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1/12/2009  10:45 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by islesfan:

No, you can rebuild in NY. What you can't do is waste 2 years of the rebuilding process. Players need to be coached and draft picks, especially lottery picks, can't be busts.

The only unrealistic people here are those who talk about wins, as if they have anything to do with this process.

I was very much behind Walsh's hiring and against D'Antoni's. Walsh has failed miserably at adding young players but has done a great job getting rid of contracts so he gets a partial pass. D'Antoni on the other hand has done nothing to make me thing I was wrong about him from the beginning. In fact, he's been worse than advertised.

I don't see how D'Antoni's been worse than advertised? How are you grading D'Antoni? Additionally, I don't think that we're wasting two years right now. We have some young players... perhaps no young studs, but those are very hard to acquire if you're trying to shed cap at the same time.

There is no discernible coaching being done. After training camp and almost half a season, players still have no clue about how to play in D'Antoni's system. It's chucking 3's, going one on one with no movement or spacing on offense. That's pretty pathetic for an alleged offensive genius, don't you think? And the defense is still atrocious but I guess that was to be expected under D'Antoni and his gimmick system.

This is what gets to me the most, the ghastly chucking of 3's.
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Bippity10
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1/12/2009  1:24 PM
1.) We have a team that chucks and doesn't play defense so everyone decides it's time to rebuild
2.) We bring in a new coach
3.) Team continues to chuck up shots and not play defense
4.) We blame the coach
5.) fire the coach
6.) Rinse and repeat.
I just hope that people will like me
TMS
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1/12/2009  1:26 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

1.) We have a team that chucks and doesn't play defense so everyone decides it's time to rebuild
2.) We bring in a new coach
3.) Team continues to chuck up shots and not play defense
4.) We blame the coach
5.) fire the coach
6.) Rinse and repeat.

u don't use a conditioner? i find it helps w/the frizzies.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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