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i'm sorry, but d'antoni's offense is terrible
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JesseDark
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1/11/2009  12:56 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

The problem with this style is defense. If you rely on offense--what happens when you go cold? We have no post game--a guy you can throw the ball into the post and he goes to work--in fact this guy does not want one of those. He wants 1 big 3 SF and a PG.

I agree. I'm not feelin this style of play. I find it more painful to watch than last season. For me it's the lack of defense.
Bring back dee-fense
AUTOADVERT
TheGame
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1/11/2009  1:11 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm watching knicks in 60 and the offensive play sets are downright terrible.

3 knicks are parked at the 3 point line just watching every single play. in most cases, FOUR knicks are standing at the 3 point line watching stuff.

they don't send anybody on the offensive glass. they don't run any picks or screens for players away from the ball. nobody cuts into the paint.

there is NO movement.

and duhon is not good enough to create for others.

i'm not hating here. i thought the d'antoni hiring is a homerun for the knicks. i also thought he had alot to prove (just like riley did when he got here). but i would have to say that for being an offensive guru, his offensive plays are really not that special. in fact, they're quite elementary.

It is the players running the offense. Too much iso plays, and we have no low post scorer. Every now and then, every team needs to be able to just dump it down on the block for a high percentage shot. We have no lowpost scorer on the team to do that. Moreover, teams are starting to figure out the play that Lee and Duhon run with Lee cutting to the basket. On about 10 occasions last night they tried to do it and the defender cut Lee off. Earlier in the year, Lee was making it all the way to the basket. Essentially, teams have watched tape of our team and the the defense has caught up. The players now have to take the offense to the next level but I don't think we have the talent and BB IQ to do that.
Trust the Process
Marv
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1/11/2009  1:18 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

lol.

i'll tell you something, i think he would be great in toronto coaching the killer b's tho...


omg

i cringe at the thought of what dj might be doing alone in a darkened room with these images as inspiration.
Bippity10
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1/12/2009  10:45 AM
I guess we haven't found the magic coach yet
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
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1/12/2009  10:49 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

I guess we haven't found the magic coach yet

Off with his head!
https:// It's not so hard.
TMS
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1/12/2009  10:50 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:

I guess we haven't found the magic coach yet

Off with his head!

bring these 2 guys back to NY & let's win a damn championship!

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
subzero0
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1/12/2009  11:02 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm watching knicks in 60 and the offensive play sets are downright terrible.

3 knicks are parked at the 3 point line just watching every single play. in most cases, FOUR knicks are standing at the 3 point line watching stuff.

they don't send anybody on the offensive glass. they don't run any picks or screens for players away from the ball. nobody cuts into the paint.

there is NO movement.

and duhon is not good enough to create for others.

i'm not hating here. i thought the d'antoni hiring is a homerun for the knicks. i also thought he had alot to prove (just like riley did when he got here). but i would have to say that for being an offensive guru, his offensive plays are really not that special. in fact, they're quite elementary.

Maybe what this offense needs is a 20-10 PF.
Knicksfan
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1/12/2009  11:03 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:

I guess we haven't found the magic coach yet

Off with his head!

bring these 2 guys back to NY & let's win a damn championship!


But we are rebuilding, so we can't go that way. It would be too easy to win a championship with that combo, but since we are rebuilding, we have to get a rookie coach so we justify rebuilding. Imagine if the Knicks rebuild with an elite coach? No, thats unthinkable!


Knicks_Fan
TMS
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1/12/2009  11:04 AM
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm watching knicks in 60 and the offensive play sets are downright terrible.

3 knicks are parked at the 3 point line just watching every single play. in most cases, FOUR knicks are standing at the 3 point line watching stuff.

they don't send anybody on the offensive glass. they don't run any picks or screens for players away from the ball. nobody cuts into the paint.

there is NO movement.

and duhon is not good enough to create for others.

i'm not hating here. i thought the d'antoni hiring is a homerun for the knicks. i also thought he had alot to prove (just like riley did when he got here). but i would have to say that for being an offensive guru, his offensive plays are really not that special. in fact, they're quite elementary.

Maybe what this offense needs is a 20-10 PF.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Knicksfan
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1/12/2009  11:05 AM
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm watching knicks in 60 and the offensive play sets are downright terrible.

3 knicks are parked at the 3 point line just watching every single play. in most cases, FOUR knicks are standing at the 3 point line watching stuff.

they don't send anybody on the offensive glass. they don't run any picks or screens for players away from the ball. nobody cuts into the paint.

there is NO movement.

and duhon is not good enough to create for others.

i'm not hating here. i thought the d'antoni hiring is a homerun for the knicks. i also thought he had alot to prove (just like riley did when he got here). but i would have to say that for being an offensive guru, his offensive plays are really not that special. in fact, they're quite elementary.

Maybe what this offense needs is a 20-10 PF.

And a SG that can get you 50 pt games occasionally. Oh man, we blew it. There goes a championship.


Knicks_Fan
tkf
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1/12/2009  11:12 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by GKFv2:

So it's his offense and not the players, correct? Duhon is OK but not a starter. Marbury wouldn't have done any better. Nate? LOL @ him at PG. Then you have Crawford 2 at forward (Al Harrington) who I could care less about since he is gone in 2 years. Who else? Lee has an offensive game? what can Q do? Tim Thomas? Curry? What? Who's left? Malik and Roberson? The personnel sucks. I'm pretty sure it's not the offense. Besides Duhon and the recently acquired Harrington, the guys I mentioned are all former Isiah Thomas acquisitions - including Tim Thomas.

watching how this whole offense is predicated on the pg penetrating into the lane, marbury would trump duhon tenfold.

forget the players for a second. they don't run any plays. it's one on one. stop looking at it in such extreme terms. yes, they don't have the talent, but i don't think d'antoni is maximizing their potential.

I dissagree, it is predicated on ball movement, penetrating and then PASSING.. that is where marbury would fail... marbury, nate and all would make us worse than the GS warriors.... why is it so hard to see that marbury trumps no one, because he doesn't run any offense except his own?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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1/12/2009  11:19 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by GKFv2:

So it's his offense and not the players, correct? Duhon is OK but not a starter. Marbury wouldn't have done any better. Nate? LOL @ him at PG. Then you have Crawford 2 at forward (Al Harrington) who I could care less about since he is gone in 2 years. Who else? Lee has an offensive game? what can Q do? Tim Thomas? Curry? What? Who's left? Malik and Roberson? The personnel sucks. I'm pretty sure it's not the offense. Besides Duhon and the recently acquired Harrington, the guys I mentioned are all former Isiah Thomas acquisitions - including Tim Thomas.

watching how this whole offense is predicated on the pg penetrating into the lane, marbury would trump duhon tenfold.

forget the players for a second. they don't run any plays. it's one on one. stop looking at it in such extreme terms. yes, they don't have the talent, but i don't think d'antoni is maximizing their potential.

I dissagree, it is predicated on ball movement, penetrating and then PASSING.. that is where marbury would fail... marbury, nate and all would make us worse than the GS warriors.... why is it so hard to see that marbury trumps no one, because he doesn't run any offense except his own?

it relies 100% on the pg. duhon isn't good enough so they have to move the ball around on the perimeter. the ball movement in pheonix started with nash getting into the paint. since duhon can't do it as well, it relies on the other guys making more decisions with the ball. that's why you see so many bad shots/chucks. if the team had better shooters, then it would mask it better, but they don't. that's why i think marbury would've done a better job than duhon.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-12-2009 11:20 AM]
MS
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1/12/2009  11:25 AM
Would it make sense to move duhon for whatever, I am sure a playoff team like the hornets would possibly give up their first round pick for someone to back paul up or some team out there would give up a late pick.

You have to break it down like this:

Good shooter (none)
Post Presence (none)
Players with brains (Duhon, Lee)
Good ball handler (Duhon)

Jefferies playing 20 minutes? Q Playing 30 minutes?

So we are not going to have a good offense when no player on the roster is above average at anything execpt Lee (rebounding)
djsunyc
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1/12/2009  11:27 AM
Posted by MS:

Would it make sense to move duhon for whatever, I am sure a playoff team like the hornets would possibly give up their first round pick for someone to back paul up or some team out there would give up a late pick.

You have to break it down like this:

Good shooter (none)
Post Presence (none)
Players with brains (Duhon, Lee)
Good ball handler (Duhon)

Jefferies playing 20 minutes? Q Playing 30 minutes?

So we are not going to have a good offense when no player on the roster is above average at anything execpt Lee (rebounding)

the premise of this post is not to say the knicks players are performing poor offensively. it's to question why d'antoni has not added any new plays to his playbook considering he has the roster that you stated above.
TMS
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1/12/2009  11:28 AM
Posted by MS:

Would it make sense to move duhon for whatever, I am sure a playoff team like the hornets would possibly give up their first round pick for someone to back paul up or some team out there would give up a late pick.

You have to break it down like this:

Good shooter (none)
Post Presence (none)
Players with brains (Duhon, Lee)
Good ball handler (Duhon)

Jefferies playing 20 minutes? Q Playing 30 minutes?

So we are not going to have a good offense when no player on the roster is above average at anything execpt Lee (rebounding)

we should be looking to trade Nate if anything... i'm sure we can get at least a mid-late 1st round pick for him from a few teams looking to shore up their bench scoring in the backcourt... 16 ppg scorers like him are well worth that at the very least... if we're not going to retain him past this year he must be traded now.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Elite
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1/12/2009  11:36 AM
u would not say this watching Phoenix. It's not D'antoni its the players. This is kinda silly
tkf
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1/12/2009  12:17 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by GKFv2:

So it's his offense and not the players, correct? Duhon is OK but not a starter. Marbury wouldn't have done any better. Nate? LOL @ him at PG. Then you have Crawford 2 at forward (Al Harrington) who I could care less about since he is gone in 2 years. Who else? Lee has an offensive game? what can Q do? Tim Thomas? Curry? What? Who's left? Malik and Roberson? The personnel sucks. I'm pretty sure it's not the offense. Besides Duhon and the recently acquired Harrington, the guys I mentioned are all former Isiah Thomas acquisitions - including Tim Thomas.

watching how this whole offense is predicated on the pg penetrating into the lane, marbury would trump duhon tenfold.

forget the players for a second. they don't run any plays. it's one on one. stop looking at it in such extreme terms. yes, they don't have the talent, but i don't think d'antoni is maximizing their potential.

I dissagree, it is predicated on ball movement, penetrating and then PASSING.. that is where marbury would fail... marbury, nate and all would make us worse than the GS warriors.... why is it so hard to see that marbury trumps no one, because he doesn't run any offense except his own?

it relies 100% on the pg. duhon isn't good enough so they have to move the ball around on the perimeter. the ball movement in pheonix started with nash getting into the paint. since duhon can't do it as well, it relies on the other guys making more decisions with the ball. that's why you see so many bad shots/chucks. if the team had better shooters, then it would mask it better, but they don't. that's why i think marbury would've done a better job than duhon.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-12-2009 11:20 AM]

duhon isn't good enough to, what? his offense is not all about the PG, duhon has gotten a lot of guys in great shooting situations. They just miss.. when Al and nate get the ball and won't pass it, what does that have to do with duhons ability.. the only thing marbury would have done would be to add to the selfish play we are seeing now, but instead he would hang his head, say he got his 20-8 and point the fingers at his teamates... is that what you want?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
rubyz2
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1/12/2009  1:44 PM
u would not say this watching Phoenix. It's not D'antoni its the players. This is kinda silly

Amen to that. From True Hoop. . .

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=796
djsunyc
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1/12/2009  1:50 PM
Posted by rubyz2:
u would not say this watching Phoenix. It's not D'antoni its the players. This is kinda silly

Amen to that. From True Hoop. . .

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=796

the suns don't apply to this thread. i'm discussing d'antoni's job in ny. so far, i haven't seen him really adjust at all to his personnel. considering the situation, i think he will have to sooner rather than later or else it would seem like he's coasting.
King1
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1/12/2009  1:58 PM
It is so funny if these guys play well and play a good game MDA is a great coach. If they stink it is the players fault. After the Boston game MDA was a great coach for the defense they played this team when they move the ball and play hard they can compete. When they get selfish and fire up shots they will get beat. All I am sking for is a big that can play 15 minutes a game and a guard they can hit some shots
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i'm sorry, but d'antoni's offense is terrible
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