Posted by arkrud:

Diaw
Lee
LeBron
Nate
Duhon

???? ... You put Duhon, Lebron, and Lee on the same NY team... and half of the good centers and guards of this league will try to force trade to NY. Can you imagine how many points/assists/rebounds this trio will produce?... crazzzy

IF the report from today’s Daily Dime is true, it would appear certain that David Lee’s days as a Knick may be over before the trade deadline.

“…The Nuggets, sources said, did not have enough to get Lee after withdrawing Kleiza and offering a package built around guard Chucky Atkins (who makes $3.2 million this season and $3.5 million next season) and two first-round picks.

Yet it seems safe to presume that Atkins will be offered up to the Knicks again between now and the Feb. 19 trading deadline, in one trade scenario or another, given his perpetual readiness to hoist a shot — never discouraged in Mike D’Antoni’s offense — and the Nuggets’ well-known desire to shed at least one more salary to get under the luxury-tax line…”

Remember due to NBA rules the Nuggets would not be able to offer 2009 and 2010 first rounders because they gave up their pick last year to the Bobcats.

From what we are hearing, the Lee for Kleiza talks had some steam but fell through, and one has to wonder why Donnie Walsh wouldn’t want to swing a deal for two first round picks. My thinking is that he is waiting for Eddy Curry’s return before moving Lee. Maybe he can use Lee to move Curry’s contract. As I’ve said before, to rid, Randolph, Crawford, Curry then Marbury in the same season is beyond my wildest dreams.

Either way, if Walsh can manage to bring back a pick or two, or get rid of Curry’s contract, it makes sense for him to trade Lee.

And I think Walsh knows it. But how can you trade Lee? The guy is a fan favorite, blue-collar type much like Charles Oakley was. Is he limited? Yes. Does his lateral quickness get exposed far too often? Sure.

But he’s a double double machine.

In saying what I said about Curry, Walsh still has next year to deal him but time is running out on what to do with Lee.

I don’t envy Walsh on this one.

Posted by s3231:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by s3231:

I think it is silly to keep pointing out what Lee does wrong when he does so many things right (as King pointed out).

We know what he does right. What he does right is going to get him a huge contract. The concern is whether or not he is worth that contract. That's when you look at his faults and compare them to his strengths to determine whether or not he's worth a big contract. A big contract solidifies him as a starter and a building block. Given his faults can he be considered a starter and a building block on a winning team?

I'm not saying that you don't look at his weaknesses when deciding on how much money to give him. However, I think it is ridiculous to say that we shouldn't resign Lee if it costs us more than $6 million a season. I'm not saying that we should max him out but I don't see the logic in letting a player like Lee walk for nothing.

The point I was making is that David does so many things right and has shown a great work ethic. I don't see why you would just let him walk because he has faults. Guess what? Pretty much every player in the NBA has a weakness or area that they can improve in.

We're not talking about a 29 year old veteran here, we're talking about a 25 year old PF/C who has been highly productive while also showing the ability to improve his game.


[Edited by - s3231 on 01-03-2009 5:03 PM]

Posted by martin:

I like DLee's play, especially on the offensive end of things. He does the little things - lots of screens and keeps the ball moving too. Never needs shots like Harrington and can get by on broken plays and pick-n-rolls.

Are these good stats on a bad team? I mean, he hasn't at all impacted the bottom line right?

I have seen David add an offensive skill every year - FT after first, 10-12 foot jumpshot, and now we are seeing the pick-n-roll and finish nicely with both hands.

Now, as far as I can tell, IMHO, David hasn't gotten better on the defensive side of things since day 1.

Posted by CrushAlot:

Wasn't the plan that Danillo would replace Lee?

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by djsunyc:

i think if you have a coach that puts an onus on defense, players will get better defensively...especially guys that aren't good on defense nor have the instincts. isiah didn't focus on it and looks like d'antoni's the same.

Brown focused on it and we still stunk at it. Some players simply can't play defense. David Lee is one of these. So the question is: What he does on offense does it not only cancel out his short comings on defense but does it so far outclass it that he's still a good player at the end of the day?

For if he goes for 30/20 but gives up 28/18 then net gain is: a 2/2 player. That's not really cutting it unless everyone else on the team does at least that or better. See what I'm alluding to?

Posted by s3231:

I think it is silly to keep pointing out what Lee does wrong when he does so many things right (as King pointed out).

I know. It's the weirdest thing. People here have been pushing for his dismissal ever since he came to the Knicks.

Posted by Queeniepop:

Posted by King1:

Everyone talks about what Lee cant do. He is playing the five he should be a four. Since the trade the perimeter players are the ones going crazy. Melo, Jack, Gerald Wallace to name a few. How many centers have just killed Lee in the last twenty games? WHo leads the teams in steals the last twenty games? Who is top 6 in the league in rebounding? No one on this team can defend if you put Lee with a Bosh they would be a top frontcourt in the league. No doubt Lee has to improve on defense but his isnt any worse than Duhon and Robinson and Harrington.

HOW MANY GAMES HAVE THE KNICKS WON IN LAST TWENTY GAMES?

How many games have the Knicks won since the trades?

How many points/rebounds increased for Lee since Zach got traded?

How many roads must a man walk down before we can call him a man? (The answers my friend is blowin' in the wind)

Okay Peter, Paul or Mary.

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by s3231:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by s3231:

I think it is silly to keep pointing out what Lee does wrong when he does so many things right (as King pointed out).

We know what he does right. What he does right is going to get him a huge contract. The concern is whether or not he is worth that contract. That's when you look at his faults and compare them to his strengths to determine whether or not he's worth a big contract. A big contract solidifies him as a starter and a building block. Given his faults can he be considered a starter and a building block on a winning team?

I'm not saying that you don't look at his weaknesses when deciding on how much money to give him. However, I think it is ridiculous to say that we shouldn't resign Lee if it costs us more than $6 million a season. I'm not saying that we should max him out but I don't see the logic in letting a player like Lee walk for nothing.

The point I was making is that David does so many things right and has shown a great work ethic. I don't see why you would just let him walk because he has faults. Guess what? Pretty much every player in the NBA has a weakness or area that they can improve in.

We're not talking about a 29 year old veteran here, we're talking about a 25 year old PF/C who has been highly productive while also showing the ability to improve his game.


[Edited by - s3231 on 01-03-2009 5:03 PM]

Well, this is why trading him is being discussed. He's more valuable in trade the next few weeks than he is in the offseason where he'd probably be signing our QO. The QO I'm pretty sure guarantees a player a NO TRADE CLAUSE. I'm not sure but I also think his contract is no longer worth it's dollar amount in trade? I do know that once a player signs the QO he becomes much trickier to trade and riskier to the receiving team, thus he may lose value in their eyes. After the QO you become unrestricted and that's a big risk for a taker.

If a team receives him now they're able to work out an extension or have other options with him.

So, I think that's why you see the trade talks/rumors heat up quickly on him NOW for in 7 weeks... deadline passes.. he becomes much tricker to trade and to retain.


As to his faults here is the problem: His faults are HORRIBLE. So far on the wrong side it's a detriment. If he were an average defender? Hey, no problem, so are a lot of players. The problem is he's ATROCIOUS. So then you start to wonder, as a starting NBA player, on a team looking to contend, how much do his strengths outweigh his weaknesses? Will his strengths propel you to victory time and again? Or are you going to get clipped a lot because his weaknesses get exploited by better teams?

You gotta draw a line somewhere with that. Also as I said you cannot go the Isiah route and say "Well, if we got a shot blocking center, then Lee's lack of defense does not matter."

For, that's a losing team mentality because it's farthest from the truth. Now you have two one-dimensional players manning your front court both with terrible weaknesses that get exploited.

So you really got to watch out here with David Lee.

As to what we can retain him for it better be in the neighborhood that won't be bad for a bench player because I don't think he's a starter on a good contending team unless you have a HALL OF FAME player alongside him. Bosh/Amare/Tyson Chandler/Dalembert (whatever other options) uh, they're not HOF players that can mask David Lee's faults enough for us to be a contending team.

All I'm saying here is the team has to be very careful with this. Not to overpay and not to back itself into the corner of overpaying or losing him for nothing.

I'm pretty sure Walsh is all over it which is why Lee might be gone by the time the deadline passes.

Posted by 4949:

Do you ever go out on a limb, or do you just like to play it real safe and go after those who aren't as cautious?

Posted by 4949:

I see what your alluding to. And I agree to a point. Your talking about contributing on one end, but not contributing on the other. There are lots of guys out there like Lee. All on either bad teams and great teams. Lee would be a great contributor on a great team. And we could be great in two more seasons. The thing about Lee is, he has been a Knick for four seasons now and experience is one thing you cannot replace. If we replace him, then the new guy is gonna have to adjust and that could take a whole year. We have guys on this team who are ready and primed for someone to come here and take us to the next levels.

Let's be a little fairer on Lee #s. Let's not forget that he is a rebound hound also. Rebounding the ball is considered a defensive act also. And his steals at 1.1 a game isn't shabby either. He just had 5 steals last night.

Posted by 4949:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by s3231:

I think it is silly to keep pointing out what Lee does wrong when he does so many things right (as King pointed out).

We know what he does right. What he does right is going to get him a huge contract. The concern is whether or not he is worth that contract. That's when you look at his faults and compare them to his strengths to determine whether or not he's worth a big contract. A big contract solidifies him as a starter and a building block. Giv

Not that anything anyone on this forum says has any bearing on what Walsh is going to do but we discuss it like it does anyway.

Maybe we shouldn't talk about anything anymore.

Huh? What's wrong with discussing David Lee and how his new impending contract affects our future?

Posted by Hoopsmeister:

You are an complete idiot. You have no idea what your talking about, no idea, jackoff!

Thanks, I'll take that under advisement. Since I'm such an idiot jackoff care to educate me on what plan you think would work out for our Knicks in relation to David Lee and the 2010 Free Agent market and how far it will take us into the future?

Posted by King1:

Who says your going to get one of the top free agents?

Who says we aren't? The point is to throw your hat into the ring and we've done that. We have a little bit more to go to throw our hat into the ring twice so to speak (try to lure two FAs to build a team around) and the David Lee contract is centered around whether or not we can do that.

I don't know about you King but I was tired of the promise of a team struggling to get 33 wins year after year maybe one day being all they could be and winning what 40 wins and getting tossed out of the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure the best thing to do was to tear the roster down and start over. We're well on our way but along the way one bump to that plan could be the signing of David Lee. So it's bound to be a hot topic.

Posted by King1:

in the history of free agency usually the most that has ever left a and went to another team is two. Knicks fans think your going to get two max players here. Would you rather have a 15-11 guy signed and a chance to sign another max guy or the chance to sign two max guys and if you dont you will have no players and the mantra is wait until 2012 and dwight howard will come to NYC.

Posted by Finestrg:

Question: How much truth is there that both 'Bron and Bosh are coming as a package deal in 2010 provided Donnie clears enough room? Big internet rumor going around - you guys buy into this at all or is this more fantasy than anything else??