Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bippity10:

It seems like we are having 2 different arguments. It is obvious to all that you need to play defense to win a title. So the question is, does D'Antoni preach it. So far, I'm not seeing much that says he isn't. The team is clearly hustling on D. They also clearly are overmatched at many positions and are not a great defensive team because of it. But we all knew that coming into that season.

I guess your opinion on Mike stems from how you feel about his Phoenix days. If you think they lost because they didn't play D, then you have no faith that he can win here. If you think they would have won without the suspensions then you think he can win here.

Personally I think you can win with any style. If Walsh signs Bosh and Lebron and fills the team in with great role players guess what, D'antoni can win a title just like anyone else. It's all about the players.

There are 2 different arguments. Playing D and playing D well are two different things. The team is definitely trying and D'Antoni just might be prodding them to play defense but it's not comparable to teams that are strong fundamentally on defense and put in the effort.

Prodding 5 players to play defense isn't the same as teaching 5 guys to play defense together and prodding them to do it.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by holfresh:

I'm not as smart as Jim Calhoun or Larry Brown for that matter but I have seen my fair share of NBA games and this excerpt from Herb Brown's book about Larry Brown "Let's talk Defense" I believe to be true...

-How many times have you heard the old adage that "defense wins championships"? While it is true that one can't teach things like height, talent, or heart, sound defensive play can and is taught to great success at all competitive levels. Author Herb Brown of the Detroit Pistons preaches that defense is a state of mind - the great equalizer. If a team is prepared and committed to playing defense each time it hits the floor, Coach Brown believes it has an opportunity to win any game, especially if each player has dedicated himself to collectively stopping their opponent. Whether or not that opponent is more physically talented, if you can limit their ability to score, you will be in a position to win. Let's Talk Defense distills forty years of coaching experience into one handy volume. Beginning with the basis that effort is the major prerequisite for playing defense successfully, Coach Brown contends that a defensive mindset must be a constant if you hope to be able to build a championship caliber team. Effort, along with determination, preparedness and proper execution must be there every night to truly give your team a chance to win when your shots aren't falling and your team is struggling to score.

I will always believe it is easier to stop/limit a team from scoring than to outscore them, but that's just me...

People don't have to believe Brown. Just look at every NBA Champion for the last 30 years and how they all played defense. D'Antoni's Suns teams never came close to that level defensively. It's not a coincidence.

Posted by islesfan:


The coach matters more than the players.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by islesfan:

Not at all. I think they're definitely trying and I like their effort. But they lack the fundamentals of good team defense. That falls on the coaching staff.

They also lack the fundamentals of a half court offense.

1) Are they playing better D than last year?

2) If so, how could they possibly have improved on D under a coach who doesn't care about defense?

I don't think you take back-to-back games, against the Suns and the Lakers, on the road, to the final possession if you can't play a lick of defense. Both those teams are still composed of premiere offensive talents. A bad defensive team gets eaten alive and blown out in back-to-back games against PHX and LAL. I'm not saying we're a good defensive team. But if we were bad last year, then we are mediocre this year. Once we can start matching up size-wise, we'll improve from mediocre to good. Will we ever be great? Who knows? But I agree with Bip that it will depend more on personnel than coach. Anyone notice how our D has improved with the departure of Crawford?

Come on, you really want to compare anything to last year or any of the Isiah years?

The Knick team that Rick Pitino inherited wasn't much different from the team that he had playing defense a year later. Same goes for Pat Riley's Knicks. The coach matters more than the players.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by holfresh:

I'm not as smart as Jim Calhoun or Larry Brown for that matter but I have seen my fair share of NBA games and this excerpt from Herb Brown's book about Larry Brown "Let's talk Defense" I believe to be true...

-How many times have you heard the old adage that "defense wins championships"? While it is true that one can't teach things like height, talent, or heart, sound defensive play can and is taught to great success at all competitive levels. Author Herb Brown of the Detroit Pistons preaches that defense is a state of mind - the great equalizer. If a team is prepared and committed to playing defense each time it hits the floor, Coach Brown believes it has an opportunity to win any game, especially if each player has dedicated himself to collectively stopping their opponent. Whether or not that opponent is more physically talented, if you can limit their ability to score, you will be in a position to win. Let's Talk Defense distills forty years of coaching experience into one handy volume. Beginning with the basis that effort is the major prerequisite for playing defense successfully, Coach Brown contends that a defensive mindset must be a constant if you hope to be able to build a championship caliber team. Effort, along with determination, preparedness and proper execution must be there every night to truly give your team a chance to win when your shots aren't falling and your team is struggling to score.

I will always believe it is easier to stop/limit a team from scoring than to outscore them, but that's just me...

People don't have to believe Brown. Just look at every NBA Champion for the last 30 years and how they all played defense. D'Antoni's Suns teams never came close to that level defensively. It's not a coincidence.

here we go... what came first, the chicken or the egg?

Sun had no size. Great defense teams are defined by size. When 2-5 is undersized and playing a guy thats a position bigger then yes. Defence becomes a liability.

Is Lee a center? is Al a PF? Is that defensive shortcomings from poor coaching or trying to guard bigger guys every night?

Was Marion a PF? Was a Amare a center?

This is so old... Do people actually watch the games? Isle.. I'm 6'4. Come out and guard me. When I post you everytime are your fundamentals weak? Is the coach to blame? Or maybe your just shorter than me?

Knicks dont have the personel to lock teams down, because they dont have the size. So they go quick, push the ball, create turnovers and play hard on BOTH ends.

ZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZzzzz

Does D'Antoni have any use for bigger players in his system? No, so why do you think they'd have any? You act like they had all of these "undersized" players because of something other than by their own choice.

I'll come out and guard you. Just don't complain when I foul the **** out of you everytime you try to post me up.

You are spot on there. He prefers small ball. Great article about the Knicks/Lakers game in the OC Register about D'Antoni refusal to accept that it makes no sense to properly defend Walton with a traditional forward. He believes that an athlethic guard can defend Walton. Those Nate on Walton were by design.

Posted by martin:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by islesfan:

Not at all. I think they're definitely trying and I like their effort. But they lack the fundamentals of good team defense. That falls on the coaching staff.

They also lack the fundamentals of a half court offense.

1) Are they playing better D than last year?

2) If so, how could they possibly have improved on D under a coach who doesn't care about defense?

I don't think you take back-to-back games, against the Suns and the Lakers, on the road, to the final possession if you can't play a lick of defense. Both those teams are still composed of premiere offensive talents. A bad defensive team gets eaten alive and blown out in back-to-back games against PHX and LAL. I'm not saying we're a good defensive team. But if we were bad last year, then we are mediocre this year. Once we can start matching up size-wise, we'll improve from mediocre to good. Will we ever be great? Who knows? But I agree with Bip that it will depend more on personnel than coach. Anyone notice how our D has improved with the departure of Crawford?

Come on, you really want to compare anything to last year or any of the Isiah years?

The Knick team that Rick Pitino inherited wasn't much different from the team that he had playing defense a year later. Same goes for Pat Riley's Knicks. The coach matters more than the players.

then how come Pat Riley, head coach of the fast break offensive juggernaut, couldn't teach the 90's Knicks some offense? Those guys couldn't BUY a basket when they needed it.

Posted by Bippity10:

So are we determining that we can't win a title ever with D'Antoni?

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by Bippity10:

So are we determining that we can't win a title ever with D'Antoni?

Are we determining we will?