You're a ****ing race baiting racist piece of crap. Seriously. Get over it. This isn't the forum for this discussion so take your race agenda elsewhere. I feel love and I pray you learn something at some point in your life.

I think the NBA has been the most progressive of all the major sports as far as hiring black coaches.

Sebstar: I don't want to start a fight or nuthin' but.....if you think a black coach is more qualified to be a coach because a lot of the players are black, then you're a racist. Plain and simple. With that type of mentality, NOTHING progresses. If you believe that, then somehow black people "think different" then white people? That's what you're basically saying. There are cultural barriers sure, but your thinking just drags everyone down. How about judging a coach by his character rather then the color of their skin.

Coaches can be white or black. They can be ex-players or not. Leaders of men can come from anywhere. From a wealthy family that is considered royalty or from a single mother working two jobs.

[Edited by - toodarkmark on 12-16-2008 10:33 PM]

Posted by nyk4ever:

I'm glad Reggie Theus invokes this kind of emotion in people.

i always thought he was white.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by nyk4ever:

I'm glad Reggie Theus invokes this kind of emotion in people.

i always thought he was white.

The Knicks should get Theus signed up to play, so he can replace Balkman as the second white player on the roster.

Posted by toodarkmark:

I think the NBA has been the most progressive of all the major sports as far as hiring black coaches.

Sebstar: I don't want to start a fight or nuthin' but.....if you think a black coach is more qualified to be a coach because a lot of the players are black, then you're a racist. Plain and simple. With that type of mentality, NOTHING progresses. If you believe that, then somehow black people "think different" then white people? That's what you're basically saying. There are cultural barriers sure, but your thinking just drags everyone down. How about judging a coach by his character rather then the color of their skin.

Coaches can be white or black. They can be ex-players or not. Leaders of men can come from anywhere. From a wealthy family that is considered royalty or from a single mother working two jobs.

[Edited by - toodarkmark on 12-16-2008 10:33 PM]

My conversation was more for the mature among us and not those that flip out everytime race is discussed. In some situations I agree that the discussion of race is not appropriate. The problem is that some people complain about race so much and bring it into every situation in life, that when a race conversation is clearly appropriate nobody wants to talk about it. That is a problem. Some people do whine about race far too much. But in the context of coaching it is clearly appropriate and can be discussed by adults without flipping out like a baby.

I think the NBA has been progressive and not overtly racist. But I do think there is a problem when the OVERWHELMING majority of the players are black but the OVERWHELMING majority of the coaches are white. It's a systemic problem and not an overt racist problem. Not somehting that people should be offended by or afraid to talk about, or unable to talk about without swearing at each other. I think it is an issue because the message is simple, you are capable of playing the game but aren't as good at thinking the game. Which I think is an nonsensical as Arkrud's assertion that white players work harder than black players. It's a myth that has both intentionally and unintentionally lasted since the old days when blacks(50's and 60's) were truly considered inferior.

The NFL is 70% black according to recent numbers and yet blacks are only 22% of the coaches. The NFL itself admitted there was a problem years ago and made some changes a few years ago. More blacks were hired and shattered the myth that this type of "forced" hiring would thrust unqualified coaches into the position, as many of the hired coaches have proven to be as successful, skilled and sometimes inept as any other ethnic group.

In the NBA we are close to 80% black and only 20% of the coaching pool.

College football black coaches make up what 2-3%? Is it as easy as saying that there just aren't any qualified black coaches in this situation? Or is it possible that even as progressive and fairminded as we are that there is a possible barrier that cannot be removed without an intelligent(no asterik, whining) conversation? What do you think the explanation is for this? Is it fair that many black college assistant coaches and players that want to be future coaches are frustrated and concerned by this? Or should they shut up and just accept that they just aren't as qualified as their white counterparts?

i think bip said that not sebstar. regardless, i'm glad this discussion is over

Can we please bring this discussion back to Hang Time? Thanks.

Of all the times we've talked about race on this site, I thought this was the one time where we could legitimately say, maybe there is something wrong in that area. It's not an indictement of anyone on this site. No one here is being called a racist. The league isn't being called a racist league. There is no cry of "see this country is still racist". To me the lack of minority coaches in sports is a mixture of perception and systematic issues.

There are many perceptions in basketball/sports that I 100% disagree with. Some include:

1.) The role player with little or no skill that dives for a loose ball is a harder worker than the superstar who has developed every imaginable skill on the planet. Guys like Steve Kerr, Ben Wallace, Othella Harrington, Charlie Ward were all hard workers but did not work on their games as much as guys like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, and Dirk Nowistki.

2.) There are not a lot of qualified black coaches

3.) Bip is not the greatest person who ever lived.

I disagree with all of these.

There is a client company that I currently work with. The makeup of the company is 80% white males. This company is one of the most tolerant, people oriented companies I have ever worked with. I don't have a bad thing to say about anyone in the company. They approached me with this make-up problem and asked me to help them fix it. It was a problem they themselves recognized. All at the management level are open to changing this and including more women and minorities because they know this will improve the company. Why are they having such problems? In their hearts are they all racist hatters? Maybe some are, but as a whole the management team clearly is not. The problem is simple but complicated. The majority of the employees are white. When they refer someone for a position, the vast majority of those that are referred are their friends, family members and colleagues who are also white(they aren't racist just referring who they know). This leads to of course more people just like them being interviewed. The managers again also hire those that are most like them(intentionally and unintentionally, this refers to race, personality, approach to work) which leads to more of this. Homogenus groups hold companies back and it's a hard thing to avoid. It's not racism it's just a reality of human nature. The same thing would happen in reverse. Just being conscious of it and talking about it without thinking someone is whining or complaining has led to more minority hires at this company. Increased profits and better business in foreign countries since the beginning of the initiative. And no, they aren't forcing unqualified minorities into positions they can't handle. They are just thinking outside of their usual box and hiring very qualified candidates that aren't just like everyone else

The NBA is no different. Major college football is no different. Because of discrimination of the past, most authority positions are held by white men. The results are the same as the company above. Unintentionally or intentionally many owner's and GM's are hiring the guys that they are comfortable with. Hiring guys that look and act like the coaches they were successful with in the past. Referrals come from the same pool. The fear of being forced to hire someone who is a minority but is unqualified is in the back of everyone's head. An invisible barrier is created.

I coached in a 12 school league. I was the first black coach in the 50 or 60 year history of the league, even though nearly 100% of the graduating players were black. It seemed that everytime there was a white player in the league who dove on the floor he somehow ended up coaching at one of the schools. The black players at this poor school were just not viewed as coaches even though many applied after they graduated. The school was poor, had a low graduation rate and the perception of the players were that they were simply athletes and did not know the game. There was much talk of me not being qualified when I took over for the coach that averaged 8 wins a year for them. Everyone wanted his son hired. I won't go into our qualifications but let's just say that coaching JV basketball for 10 years and nver going higher should be a turnoff, but for many it was impressive. I don't think there was overt racism in this case(maybe I'm naive). But I do think that the outcry against me almost led to a perpetuation of a race barrier that had existed for so long. The AD held strong and I was hired. To toot my own horn, I turned an also ran into a team that has now won 9 leauge titles in 11 years. I won 4 out of 4 and my replacement has won 6 out of 8(that loser).

I am willing to lay my asse on the line and guarantee I am one of the most tolerant people on this site. I rarely call foul and am usually leading the charge when I think someone is bringing race into a topic that I feel is not warranted. I have been called uncle tom at least 4 times that I can remember for doing this. That being said, I clearly think the state of black coaches in professional sports is a major issue. And I understand when minority coaches complain. I mean really, what is the message being sent to a black assistant coach in college football? Be intellecutally honest when you answer that question.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 17-12-2008 09:21 AM]

Bip stop being a racist hatter.