Bush isn't a straight thinking individual, I agree TMS.

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by kam77:

Cultural differences. Thats like flipping a guy the bird over here.

Yeah, from what I understand throwing shoes at somebody is the ultimate sign of disrespect in the Iraqi/middle eastern culture. Feet are considered filthy, and shoes are an extension of that filth. Thats why they wash their feet before entering a Mosque. This was a form of protest.

[Edited by - sebstar on 12-15-2008 11:00 AM]

pretty much akin to spitting on someone here in the States i guess... completely acceptable form of protest... come on guys.

Yeah, but peep game tho, TMS. Here is the full quote before he let his kicks fly: "This is a farewell kiss, you dog, This is from the widows and the orphans"

This isnt about a disagreement of policy or an ideological pissing match. In 2006 it was estimated that over 600,000 Iraqi's have died since coalition forces arrived in 2003. Bush lied about the justification of declaring war. Now how would YOU feel if the situation was comparable on our end and our country was being occupied, our citizens were being murdered, and our way of life was being infringed upon. And to add insult to injury, their supposed justification was all a stack of bullshyt. From weapons of mass destruction, to the harboring of Al-Qaeda.

In Syria, he was hailed as a hero. In Libya, he was given an award for courage.

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/counterexplanation.html

There were 2 massive rallies calling for his release and offers to buy the shoes are being made around the world. Bush lied about WMDs which led to the deaths of over half a million Iraqis. He lied about WMDs so that he could have more Oil. If all he gets is shoes thrown at him then IMO he is getting off easy!

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 12-16-2008 4:09 PM]

Posted by TMS:

i really could care less about throwing shoes at G dubya... it's the thought of some crazed foreign journalist showing such a lack of respect to the leader of our country... it's pretty much like spitting on the US flag as far as i'm concerned.

I have no respect for George W. Bush but let me ask you this, would it be ok with you if it wasn't a foreign journalist that threw a shoe at Bush?

Would it be ok with you if an American reporter did what the Iraqi reporter did? Cause then he would be singling out Bush and not the whole country or the flag.

Posted by TMS:

if an American Reporter were to spit on George Bush (pretty much akin to this guy throwing his shoes at him) i definitely would not look favorably on it &

I earlier read that your problem was with the President getting insulted outside the US and that being an insult to the country. But here in this post you show some consistency. You have the same reaction to an American doing it which is consistent so lets just leave out the 'disrespecting the US' etc. The guy was out of line whether he was American or Iraqi and even you agree that it wasn't necessarily an insult to the flag. His direct quote while throwing the shoe didn't even mention the US. His hate was directed solely to Bush.

neither would most of the civilized world

I think you are in the minority here. Is the muslim world civilized? Cause they are not condemning it, he is in fact a hero. I am not exaggerating here. He is a hero in every Muslim country. Also, Venezuela, some Israeli Jews, many British, French, American and Chinese newspapers share that point of view. New York times has an article destroying Bush for not understanding the extent of the damages of the war. The Baltimore Sun had an article that actually thanked Zaidu. This is an American newspapers.

If it was anyone else I think we would all agree with you but Bush has long ago joined the ranks to the worst people in the world. Thats just my opinion. The way I look at it, George Bush insulted the US when he lied to everyone about the WMDs and invaded Iraq for their Oil. I dont think Bush represented the US and thats proven by his 21% favorable rating. I dont think Zaidi should have done it but I totally understand his reaction and don't think he is insulting the US.

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by TMS:
there's a time & a place for protest & doing it in that fashion in that venue was definitely not it IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-16-2008 5:59 PM]

You might be right about this but I am not sure. I cant say that unless I've walked in his shoes, no pun. I dont think we will ever understand the hate unless we (I hope we never have to) see our friends and family orphaned/widowed and the country occupied by someone for our Oil. It might not be possible to always be Civil around someone that has totally ruined you.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 12-16-2008 10:31 PM]

u bring up some very good points & i appreciate the back & forth... i agree, i can never really know how this guy feels until i've walked a mile in his shoes, but i do still believe that a press conference isn't the time or the place for this kinda stuff so we'll have to agree to disagree on that part... again, as far as disrespecting the man Bush, i really don't have any problem w/that at all... it was more of the symbolic gesture in my eyes that i can't approve of.

let me ask u this tho, u bring up the point about us occupying their country for oil... say after Obama takes office we don't have a complete withdrawal from the Middle East, do u think it would be warranted for a news journalist to spit at him on a tour through the U.S.? or an Iraqi reporter to toss their shoes at a press conference because he hasn't pulled out from their country?

I think Obama has to do much more that just a complete withdrawal. He has to help them build a strong government that can withstand pressure from Afghanistan and Iran. He has to figure out a way to help Israel when they notice the first sign of trouble in Iraq. He has to make sure/warn Saudi Arabia to stay away from Iraq because if he cannot, then he would be lucky to get away with just shoes thrown at him.

i agree w/all that regarding Obama... regardless he's going to open himself up to criticism from Iraqi political groups that resent the fact that the US is such close allies to Israel & will be keeping their interests at heart in the Middle East no matter what we end up doing over there... i really don't wanna get engaged in a big political debate over the rights & wrongs of the Middle East situation... that's not my purpose here & i hate political discussions to begin with.

i just don't like to see our President getting disrespected in such a manner regardless of the circumstances... it's a symbolic disrespect to our entire nation if u ask me... maybe not intended to be one by the journalist who was throwing the shoes, but it will be taken as one by plenty of the Iraqi people IMO because there's no way they are all only resentful towards Bush over the Middle East situation... they hate the fact our country is such close allies w/Israel & just want us out of the Middle East region completely & it's been that way long before Bush ever took office or 9/11 ever took place.

i don't like to see this type of stuff being viewed as acceptable by members of the media... it's way more than enough to have their citizens burning US flags & bombing our soldiers w/IED explosives on the side of every other road over there every chance they get, we don't need this type of stuff going on & being aired during a nationally covered press conferences to glamorize this... & for people in our own country to be applauding this stuff to me, as a citizen myself, sorta disgusts me, even though Bush's Presidency itself has disgusted me over the past 8 years... i'm sorry but that's just how i feel.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-17-2008 04:42 AM]

Furguson- by far the funniest take on it. Jay and Dave were surprisingly flat. This is as good a story as it gets for comedians.

Do you really think the office of president of the US deserves respect from other countries, especially ones that hate us? A little bit of elitism, I sense there.

The only thing that matters is that Americans respect the office, I really don't care whether an Iraqi does. It's a shame that the Iraqi doesn't, but what can you do? They definitely don't have to respect ****.

Posted by Knicksfansince94:

Do you really think the office of president of the US deserves respect from other countries, especially ones that hate us? A little bit of elitism, I sense there.

The only thing that matters is that Americans respect the office, I really don't care whether an Iraqi does. It's a shame that the Iraqi doesn't, but what can you do? They definitely don't have to respect ****.

Nothing to do with elitism. When heads of state come to our countries we show them respect as well. I think if you hate a leader's policies you protest but you do not attack the head of another state. At least as a reporter I don't think that's your role. As much as I daydream about Tom Brokaw throwing a show at Ahmadinejad, I'm pretty glad that our reporters do not go to that level.

Could you imagine if one of our reporters did do that. Could you imagine what animals we would be portrayed as around the world. We'd be called racists, muslim haters etc.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 18-12-2008 4:48 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Tom Brokaw throwing a show at Ahmadinejad

What if it was Bin Laden who was visiting NY and the reporter was the friend of a dead firefighter at ground zero? What if the reporter cursed him out or flipped him off? Would you be embarrassed that the reporter is American? I wouldn't. The same for Zaidi, I don't approve of his action but I completely understand where he is coming from.

I am drawing parallels here cause to the Iraqi people, the 5 years of war and occupation based on a lie that has left 650,000 dead and millions homeless is just as bad as 9/11 was for us. The war was based on a a lie. In case you think I am the only one that thinks this way, here is a link to a op-ed letter that is much more critical of Bush than me.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/letters/bal-ed.le.letters16d13dec16,0,6092796.story

For years, huge and growing numbers in the domestic and international communities have wondered: Where's the outrage over the actions of President Bush.

At long last comes Muntadar al-Zeidi, an Iraqi journalist, who threw his shoes at Mr. Bush during a joint press conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ("Bush visit to Iraq marred by protest," Dec. 15).

Most of the American and Iraqi people celebrate the end of the Bush regime and look forward to the end of the U.S. occupation of Iraq. Michael J. MarsalekBel Air

Thank you, Muntadar al-Zeidi, for doing what so many of us have dreamed of doing over these last eight years but have never had the chance to do.

President Bush deserves neither respect nor gratitude for his destruction of an entire country and its culture.

Mr. Bush refuses to acknowledge his responsibility for the thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths and millions of refugees his invasion of Iraq has caused, and he will most likely never be held accountable for his crimes against humanity, Iraq and his own country.

I only wish the shoes had hit him.

Olbermann said it best, so what?

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 12-18-2008 7:31 PM]