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The worst part of all these losing seasons... Our Standards have lowered A LOT:
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TMS
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12/12/2008  7:45 PM
Posted by misterearl:

"mommy, mommy he hit me!"

GKFv2 - quick question, think back to the times that you and I don't agree, would you consider any single response of mine as a "cheap pot shot"?

If so, it was purely intentional.

Thank you for not being a crybaby.

Oh yeah, Go Knicks

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-12-2008 7:42 PM]

earl, if u can't deal w/someone pointing out ur own hypocrisy i would suggest u choose ur words more carefully in the future... that's all i'm gonna say on the matter... looks to me like ur the one who needs to grow up here.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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Cosmic
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12/12/2008  7:49 PM
Posted by TMS:


u couldn't have said it any better... apparently lack of effort is something to be readily accepted now... seemed like it was a big problem when talking about other players in the past... times have changed i guess.

Good lord man, I know why you hate the guy, but he's not even in our 2010 plans, and despite what you dislike about him in the view of potential versus reality... he's done okay here so far and won't be here when we're building a winning team.

I just don't see the problem - beyond - every fan needing a player to crap on - and I understand where you are coming from - but damn you're putting a whole lot of effort into it!

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TMS
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12/12/2008  7:52 PM
dude, i put the effort into it cuz it frustrates me when i see him coasting... that don't bother u at all? i mean dude, he's no scrub player like Fishlips & Roberson... i get that... i appreciate his range & his ability to post up guys when he feels like it... i just wish he would feel like it a lot more, that's all... i ain't making no big deal outta nothing... it is what it is... u keep arguing w/me on this topic when there's nothing left to argue about... i get ur position, u get mine... leave it at that ur not gonna convince me to agree w/u & vice versa.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
misterearl
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12/12/2008  7:55 PM
TMS - did you say something?

once a knick always a knick
Cosmic
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12/12/2008  7:58 PM
Posted by TMS:

dude, i put the effort into it cuz it frustrates me when i see him coasting... that don't bother u at all? i mean dude, he's no scrub player like Fishlips & Roberson... i get that... i appreciate his range & his ability to post up guys when he feels like it... i just wish he would feel like it a lot more, that's all... i ain't making no big deal outta nothing... it is what it is... u keep arguing w/me on this topic when there's nothing left to argue about... i get ur position, u get mine... leave it at that ur not gonna convince me to agree w/u & vice versa.

Sure it bothers me that Tim Thomas never became Kevin Garnett Jr. Of course, but, he's not here to be a franchise cornerstone. He will be gone in 17 months. He's a stop gap and he's playing the "stop gap on a crappy rebuilding team" role pretty well IMO.

It's no big deal really I don't know why it's got you all riled up - unless - you really liked Timmy as a high school kid with the "potential" to be a superstar - and he never lived up to it. So, well, he didn't because he never was that guy that everyone thought he would be.

He's no different than Q, James, Malik, Marbury, and Roberson. What do they all have in common? They won't be here for the 2010-2011 season.

That's the season we need to all care about! Not today... and again in the situation we face now TT hasn't done all that bad as a ROLE PLAYER STOP GAP PLAYER to allow us to have enough warm bodies to at least be entertaining while we rebuild.

We've been more fun to watch THIS YEAR than since the 0304 season ended in a Nets Playoff Sweep.

I'm just not an angry fan right now... there's plenty of players on the roster I can't stand, but, I know they're going to be gone when it matters most so now they kinda get a grace period.
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TMS
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12/12/2008  8:04 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by TMS:

dude, i put the effort into it cuz it frustrates me when i see him coasting... that don't bother u at all? i mean dude, he's no scrub player like Fishlips & Roberson... i get that... i appreciate his range & his ability to post up guys when he feels like it... i just wish he would feel like it a lot more, that's all... i ain't making no big deal outta nothing... it is what it is... u keep arguing w/me on this topic when there's nothing left to argue about... i get ur position, u get mine... leave it at that ur not gonna convince me to agree w/u & vice versa.

Sure it bothers me that Tim Thomas never became Kevin Garnett Jr. Of course, but, he's not here to be a franchise cornerstone. He will be gone in 17 months. He's a stop gap and he's playing the "stop gap on a crappy rebuilding team" role pretty well IMO.

It's no big deal really I don't know why it's got you all riled up - unless - you really liked Timmy as a high school kid with the "potential" to be a superstar - and he never lived up to it. So, well, he didn't because he never was that guy that everyone thought he would be.

He's no different than Q, James, Malik, Marbury, and Roberson. What do they all have in common? They won't be here for the 2010-2011 season.

That's the season we need to all care about! Not today... and again in the situation we face now TT hasn't done all that bad as a ROLE PLAYER STOP GAP PLAYER to allow us to have enough warm bodies to at least be entertaining while we rebuild.

We've been more fun to watch THIS YEAR than since the 0304 season ended in a Nets Playoff Sweep.

I'm just not an angry fan right now... there's plenty of players on the roster I can't stand, but, I know they're going to be gone when it matters most so now they kinda get a grace period.

i've never liked Tiny Tim... i hated the KVH trade for Tim when it was made & i couldn't stand watching him as a Knick the first time around... i didn't like him calling out K Mart as a fugazy & then seeing him go down to an injury in the playoffs & be a complete nonfactor... so far i haven't seen any change in his play since the last time... the thing is MDA's new team concept is making this team bearable to watch... w/o that Tim's loafing would be a lot more noticeable to you, believe that... i will always root for Fugazy Tim as long as he's wearing the orange & blue but i will never be able to say he's a hard worker or gives it his all like u have, i'm sorry... as far as i'm concerned the only reason i'm glad to see him on this team is cuz his contract is expiring at the end of next year... i never once expected him to be a star player, just didn't expect him to be that lazy on the basketball court... i'm not angry at him, i know he is what he is... he's just fugazy man, that's pretty much the best way to describe him.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-12-2008 5:06 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Cosmic
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12/12/2008  8:10 PM
Posted by TMS:




i've never liked Tiny Tim... i hated the KVH trade for Tim when it was made & i couldn't stand watching him as a Knick the first time around... i didn't like him calling out K Mart as a fugazy & then seeing him go down to an injury in the playoffs & be a complete nonfactor... so far i haven't seen any change in his play since the last time... the thing is MDA's new team concept is making this team bearable to watch... w/o that Tim's loafing would be a lot more noticeable to you, believe that... i will always root for Fugazy Tim as long as he's wearing the orange & blue but i will never be able to say he's a hard worker or gives it his all like u have, i'm sorry... as far as i'm concerned the only reason i'm glad to see him on this team is cuz his contract is expiring at the end of next year... i never once expected him to be a star player, just didn't expect him to be that lazy on the basketball court... i'm not angry at him, i know he is what he is... he's just fugazy man, that's pretty much the best way to describe him.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-12-2008 5:06 PM]

That was a terrible trade. Isiah got Marbury who led Layden's team to the playoffs - but - should have never traded for TT, for Crawful, etc. Just let what he did play out for a while. Ancient history though.

I still dunno though I think Tim's done pretty well in his second stint here. He's a rental. I look at him as a walk on.

Anyways, it is what it is man, in 2010 it's all better. Don't let it bother you so much.

Have a good night, TMS.

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TMS
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12/12/2008  8:15 PM
i think TT put up 16 & 5 his first half season here & people were lauding him for those stats but i still viewed him as a fugazy cuz i could still see how he wasn't giving it his all... the following season he put up 12 & 3 & i resigned myself to the fact he was a lost cause... this season he's putting up 11 & 4 as a Knick in similar minutes... he's the same player only older dude, trust.

don't worry bro, it ain't bothering me much... i know he ain't gonna change.
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CrushAlot
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12/12/2008  10:13 PM
Thomas is alot more talented and driven than Wallace. He was the fourth pick in the draft. Thomas has had a longer career than most. I don't like him but he is alot more than Wallace ever was. As far as the standards of fans, I usually have stopped watching full or even half games by now. The Layden/Thomas era was awful. However, I don't think you can question a fans excitement when a team that won 23 games last year is almost playing .500 ball and has rid itself of the coaching, management and many of the salary/player mistakes of the past regime in less than 1 year. I wanted Jackson as coach. I wanted a tough, defense first coach, and I wanted to go back to the Knicks of the 90's. I still wish MJax was named coach but I am excited about this team for the first time in many years. I think when a team wins 23 games and is considered the most dysfunctional sports team in professional sports as a fan you have to get excited when the team starts to turn the corner. I think you are being extremely unrealistic if you had higher expectations for this team this year.
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ramtour420
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12/13/2008  1:26 AM
You know, this whole discussion made me realize something. One of the reasons that sports are so exciting are the expectations that the fans have. When we got H20 that brought expectations, when we got Marbs i know i had expectations , same with Curry. Expectations are definately one of the things that makes sports exciting. When Walsh took over it was just good all around , when we got MDA my expectations made me damn interested about the Knicks again, same for drafting Gallo etc.


So its definately understandable to want more and to expect more. Thing is, TT is at this point already showed what to expect. Right now, he is doing great comparing to what we expected of him so that is great and definately a reason to be excited imo. Yeah you can say that he's still not being all that he can be, and you'd be right, but honestly we are not talking about one of the greatest BB players ever here. Its TT, and he's fitting in nicely so far and thats pretty much all you can ask for.
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holfresh
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12/13/2008  9:49 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

We used to celebrate the blue collar workers who busted their arses. We'd give guys like Jefferies a standing ovation, not because of his lack of skill level, but because he's doing everything he possibly can and we appreciated little things like that. Even Chris Duhon, who's so limited yet is playing above his head, hardly gets noticed by the garden crowd b/c he does nothing special in a particular play. We used to love a guy like that.

We used to frown on guys like John Wallace who had such a great offensive package, yet didn't do crap. He'd occasionally post up and make a nice move, or hit a three, and we'd like it, but we'd expect more out of a pro ball player on our team. We wouldn't dare dream of making excuses for a guy like that.

Yet now we have Tim Thomas, a decade later. After 7 full seasons of losing, and not only losing, but getting KILLED and getting worse. Now we're starting to regrow and mend our wounds, but we got Tim Thomas, who's basically the equivalent of John Wallace. Perhaps the laziest basketball player in the league is Tiny Tim, aka Fugazy. 4 years ago, we booed him for his lack of effort. NOW, he's the same exact player, and we're celebrating him b/c he hit's a few 3s and makes a nice post up move every now and then. And what's the excuse for him? It's not in his personality to be a hardworking basketball player.

We're not the same fans we once were. How sad.

Funny you should start a thread about lowering our standards...It wasn't too long ago I started a thread about the Knicks coach not emphasizing defense and the Knicks not playing much defense...One thing Knick fans enjoyed or at least me, was my team playing defense...But this was one your responses late in the thread....

Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by islesfan:

Good defense starts with the head coach. If he doesn't teach and demand solid defense, his players won't do it.

You're right. I guess our teams suck at defense b/c of the bad coaching of Larry Brown, Lenny Wilkins, Mike D'Antoni and the once defensive stud of a player, Isiah Thomas.

You couldn't be further from the truth Isles. Defense starts with the players and Mike D'Antoni was right about something. You can't teach a old dog new tricks, and these players are so stuck on these habits that it's impossible to get them out. Not to mention that we're shorthanded and have literally, NO frontcourt.

It's amazing to me that this team is in a transistion phase, we have no frontcourt, 2 guards, yet it's the coaching people are bitching about. Knicks fans are funny funny creatures I must say.

Glad to see to come around a little after Isle and myself were being bombarded by comments at the mere mention of playing some defense...
Knicksfan
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12/13/2008  11:16 AM
With all due respect, I think this discussion has no point because it is my understanding that NY Knicks fans accept the fact that Tim Thomas is a rental and therefore its not vital for the future, which is the focus of most of us, how he plays on the court.

Tim is what he is and we all know it. He will look good some nights and uninspired others. Whoever expects more is fooling himself. The best he will do for our future is pick his last check in 2010.

Now, as far as the fans' standards have lowered, I think you can see some interesting angles on this. First of all, NBA basketball has dramatically changed and what was appreciated in the last decades has certainly changed. You see the 70's Knicks, for example, and wonder how could the game stop being as entertaining as back then. The improvement of the media coverage and the era of the multi-million dollars has affected the way every fan sees the game. Its just a different era in basketball as a whole, its not just NY.

Second, specifically concerning the Knicks, I think us fans aren't that way off when analyzing the team. For example, a majority of fans approve vanishing Marbury from the Knicks. A majority of fans want Eddie Curry gone. A majority of fans are extremely happy that the Knicks signed Duhon because they now see what a hard worker and excellent old fashioned point guard he is. Not to mention fans favoring guys like David Lee, who isn't as talented as other PFs but makes up for it with hustle and effort.

I think the fans just want to have a winner to root for and if that takes rooting for Tim Thomas another year and a half to do it, they will gladly do it.
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12/13/2008  1:17 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by martin:
Posted by kam77:

YES YES YES.

I can't believe these fans say Tiny Tim tries and works hard. He doesn't work hard. He loafs up and down the court like he's in a scrimmage. As Clyde says, "Fire and Desire", thats what we want. Not heartless effort.

I don't think you will find much on this site that will deny tim loafs every once in a while, nor will you find posters who say Tim tries and works hard all the time.

- I love this guy. It's not a player's fault if he gets hyped up by the media. Same with Darko. It's not Darko's fault he went 2nd.
Timmy Thomas is upon us. Welcome back, TIMMY! (Knicksfansince94)

- Give it up for Timmy. He plays hard. He plays both ends of the court. He loves being a Knick. He is a solid teammate.
I know he gets hate but TT.2 has been awesome. Give the guy his props! (Cosmic)
- the guy is playing his heart out. (Cosmic)
- The guy plays hard (Cosmic)

It's true, there's been a big change of heart towards Tim Thomas from some. But Martin's statement was definitely a little off in that Tim loafs a little more often than once in a while. Being that he's simply a stopgap, and I see a 0.1% chance we'd resign him in 2010, I'm handling it for now. As much as I disliked Tim, I do like him better than Marbury, which means that if I had to choose, the team is more tolerable with Tim Thomas than Marbury. So, it is what it is.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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The worst part of all these losing seasons... Our Standards have lowered A LOT:
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