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Last night game and MDA postgame comments...
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TMS
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11/30/2008  10:38 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:

Good defense starts with the head coach. If he doesn't teach and demand solid defense, his players won't do it.

Larry Brown preached & demanded defense... his players didn't do it.

Right, because Larry Brown's stint here was under optimal, hell even normal, conditions.

But why look at every other stop on Larry Brown's Hall of Fame resume when you can look at his record with this dysfunctional mess.

u could bring in Pop, Sloan, Phil Jackson, Mark Jackson, Janet Jackson or the Jackson 5 in here to preach defense to these guys & they're still gonna be a horrible defensive team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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djsunyc
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11/30/2008  10:38 PM
a team that isn't built on defense, and doesn't emphasize defense needs to have some *high* caliber offensive talent to win big in the league. otherwise, the ceiling is golden state 2006...
islesfan
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11/30/2008  10:43 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:

Good defense starts with the head coach. If he doesn't teach and demand solid defense, his players won't do it.

Larry Brown preached & demanded defense... his players didn't do it.

Right, because Larry Brown's stint here was under optimal, hell even normal, conditions.

But why look at every other stop on Larry Brown's Hall of Fame resume when you can look at his record with this dysfunctional mess.

u could bring in Pop, Sloan, Phil Jackson, Mark Jackson, Janet Jackson or the Jackson 5 in here to preach defense to these guys & they're still gonna be a horrible defensive team.

What does any of that have to do with effort? You make it seem as if it's ok to ignore defense and accept poor defensive effort if the collective ceiling as a defensive team isn't very high.

And Tito is rumored to be a defensive genius.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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11/30/2008  10:49 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

a team that isn't built on defense, and doesn't emphasize defense needs to have some *high* caliber offensive talent to win big in the league. otherwise, the ceiling is golden state 2006...

Even with the "*high* caliber offensive talent" the ceiling is D'Antoni's Suns.

And I don't want to hear about the Spurs. The Mavs and Lakers were able to get past them to the Finals. Interestingly enough, the Mavs were able to get past the Spurs when they dedicated themselves to defense under Avery and Phil Jackson teams always play strong defense.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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11/30/2008  11:14 PM
Posted by islesfan:

You make it seem as if it's ok to ignore defense and accept poor defensive effort if the collective ceiling as a defensive team isn't very high.

not really but can't help it if u wanna take my comments that way... i'm just being realistic... i wouldn't have expected this team to be a good defensive unit regardless of who we hired to coach them... we need to turn over the roster more before we start to expect defense to be played... i'm not ignoring the importance of defense & i don't see anyone else on this thread doing that either... we all wish we had a team that could play great D.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BlueSeats
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11/30/2008  11:51 PM
Championship? We talkin' championship?

Thinking about a championship caliber coach now is like preparing for a hurricane every time it drizzles.

I'd guess it's pretty rare that the coach who's there during the strip-down rebuild is the same guy that takes you to the promised land. D's job is to take us out of the Isiah/Marbury era and get guys playing hard and for each other. We can worry about a championship coach after we get a franchise player, and maybe start sniffing a ~50 win season.
Solace
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12/1/2008  12:02 AM
Yeah, I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. I have no doubts that defense is very important in a championship, but our current phase is simply to bring a winning culture to NY.

Let's walk before we run the marathon.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
islesfan
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12/1/2008  10:17 AM
Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

Sorry if that's too much to ask of the coach who's here to strip down and rebuild. You would think that teaching would be a pretty important part of rebuilding. It doesn't make a lot of sense to dump players with bad habits on the coach who is supposed to take them to the promised land.

But hey, they outscored the defenseless Warriors so I guess all is right in the Knicks world.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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12/1/2008  10:26 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

How come I keep hearing MDA screaming at Nate to go over picks? Or for the team to get back on transition D?

Now I know you are either not watching any games or are purposely putting out an argument for no reason.

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islesfan
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12/1/2008  10:43 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

How come I keep hearing MDA screaming at Nate to go over picks? Or for the team to get back on transition D?

Now I know you are either not watching any games or are purposely putting out an argument for no reason.

Are the held accountable when they don't? There isn't a single thing to suggest that they are.

How are the Knicks in general at getting over picks? At getting back on D? On defensive rotations? On boxing out? On taking charges? On stopping penetration? On defending the pick and roll? Are they getting better at any of these things?

I'm pretty sure there's a good reason behind this argument.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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12/1/2008  11:01 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

How come I keep hearing MDA screaming at Nate to go over picks? Or for the team to get back on transition D?

Now I know you are either not watching any games or are purposely putting out an argument for no reason.

Are the held accountable when they don't? There isn't a single thing to suggest that they are.

How are the Knicks in general at getting over picks? At getting back on D? On defensive rotations? On boxing out? On taking charges? On stopping penetration? On defending the pick and roll? Are they getting better at any of these things?

I'm pretty sure there's a good reason behind this argument.

14 games into the season.

If we focus on Nate... are his steals up? Is he a better player than last year defensively?

Mike has taken Nate out several times during games after he didn't get over picks.

Are you suggesting that after every defensive mistake a coach should yank a guy? LOL.

Feel free to watch some games and evaluate over an entire season.
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NYKBocker
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12/1/2008  11:08 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

How come I keep hearing MDA screaming at Nate to go over picks? Or for the team to get back on transition D?

Now I know you are either not watching any games or are purposely putting out an argument for no reason.

Are the held accountable when they don't? There isn't a single thing to suggest that they are.

How are the Knicks in general at getting over picks? At getting back on D? On defensive rotations? On boxing out? On taking charges? On stopping penetration? On defending the pick and roll? Are they getting better at any of these things?

I'm pretty sure there's a good reason behind this argument.

I like having players accoutable to their performance but what kind of punishment are you talking about here? They only have 8 players available after the trade. Now that Al and TT are playing, do you want to see JJFat and Malik instead? D'Antoni chose not to harp on his players defensive lapses during the post-game interviews. I like that. NFL coaches do that all the time. They get on their players behind closed doors. As martin said, MDA was preaching 2 things during the game. 1. Push the ball every time, all the time. 2. Give all out energy on defense. I heard him call out DLee and TT on plays where he said that was just lazy.
islesfan
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12/1/2008  11:13 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

How come I keep hearing MDA screaming at Nate to go over picks? Or for the team to get back on transition D?

Now I know you are either not watching any games or are purposely putting out an argument for no reason.

Are the held accountable when they don't? There isn't a single thing to suggest that they are.

How are the Knicks in general at getting over picks? At getting back on D? On defensive rotations? On boxing out? On taking charges? On stopping penetration? On defending the pick and roll? Are they getting better at any of these things?

I'm pretty sure there's a good reason behind this argument.

14 games into the season.

If we focus on Nate... are his steals up? Is he a better player than last year defensively?

Mike has taken Nate out several times during games after he didn't get over picks.

Are you suggesting that after every defensive mistake a coach should yank a guy? LOL.

Feel free to watch some games and evaluate over an entire season.

It shouldn't take an entire season to see a team's grasp of basic defensive fundamentals.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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12/1/2008  11:16 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

How come I keep hearing MDA screaming at Nate to go over picks? Or for the team to get back on transition D?

Now I know you are either not watching any games or are purposely putting out an argument for no reason.

Are the held accountable when they don't? There isn't a single thing to suggest that they are.

How are the Knicks in general at getting over picks? At getting back on D? On defensive rotations? On boxing out? On taking charges? On stopping penetration? On defending the pick and roll? Are they getting better at any of these things?

I'm pretty sure there's a good reason behind this argument.

14 games into the season.

If we focus on Nate... are his steals up? Is he a better player than last year defensively?

Mike has taken Nate out several times during games after he didn't get over picks.

Are you suggesting that after every defensive mistake a coach should yank a guy? LOL.

Feel free to watch some games and evaluate over an entire season.

It shouldn't take an entire season to see a team's grasp of basic defensive fundamentals.

never said it should. But feel free to take more than 14 games and make a conclusion.
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islesfan
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12/1/2008  11:19 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

How come I keep hearing MDA screaming at Nate to go over picks? Or for the team to get back on transition D?

Now I know you are either not watching any games or are purposely putting out an argument for no reason.

Are the held accountable when they don't? There isn't a single thing to suggest that they are.

How are the Knicks in general at getting over picks? At getting back on D? On defensive rotations? On boxing out? On taking charges? On stopping penetration? On defending the pick and roll? Are they getting better at any of these things?

I'm pretty sure there's a good reason behind this argument.

I like having players accoutable to their performance but what kind of punishment are you talking about here? They only have 8 players available after the trade. Now that Al and TT are playing, do you want to see JJFat and Malik instead? D'Antoni chose not to harp on his players defensive lapses during the post-game interviews. I like that. NFL coaches do that all the time. They get on their players behind closed doors. As martin said, MDA was preaching 2 things during the game. 1. Push the ball every time, all the time. 2. Give all out energy on defense. I heard him call out DLee and TT on plays where he said that was just lazy.

Punishment - longer and harder practices focusing on defense and taking away playing time. If that means Big Snacks and Rose get playing time then so be it.

By all means, do it behind closed doors, but there better be signs of improvement when they step back on the court.

Give all out energy on defense? Come on, can you honestly say that this team has done that in any of their games so far?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Allanfan20
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12/1/2008  11:23 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Good defense starts with the head coach. If he doesn't teach and demand solid defense, his players won't do it.

You're right. I guess our teams suck at defense b/c of the bad coaching of Larry Brown, Lenny Wilkins, Mike D'Antoni and the once defensive stud of a player, Isiah Thomas.

You couldn't be further from the truth Isles. Defense starts with the players and Mike D'Antoni was right about something. You can't teach a old dog new tricks, and these players are so stuck on these habits that it's impossible to get them out. Not to mention that we're shorthanded and have literally, NO frontcourt.

It's amazing to me that this team is in a transistion phase, we have no frontcourt, 2 guards, yet it's the coaching people are bitching about. Knicks fans are funny funny creatures I must say.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
martin
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12/1/2008  11:38 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

How come I keep hearing MDA screaming at Nate to go over picks? Or for the team to get back on transition D?

Now I know you are either not watching any games or are purposely putting out an argument for no reason.

Are the held accountable when they don't? There isn't a single thing to suggest that they are.

How are the Knicks in general at getting over picks? At getting back on D? On defensive rotations? On boxing out? On taking charges? On stopping penetration? On defending the pick and roll? Are they getting better at any of these things?

I'm pretty sure there's a good reason behind this argument.

I like having players accoutable to their performance but what kind of punishment are you talking about here? They only have 8 players available after the trade. Now that Al and TT are playing, do you want to see JJFat and Malik instead? D'Antoni chose not to harp on his players defensive lapses during the post-game interviews. I like that. NFL coaches do that all the time. They get on their players behind closed doors. As martin said, MDA was preaching 2 things during the game. 1. Push the ball every time, all the time. 2. Give all out energy on defense. I heard him call out DLee and TT on plays where he said that was just lazy.

Punishment - longer and harder practices focusing on defense and taking away playing time. If that means Big Snacks and Rose get playing time then so be it.

By all means, do it behind closed doors, but there better be signs of improvement when they step back on the court.

Give all out energy on defense? Come on, can you honestly say that this team has done that in any of their games so far?

BY all means, shouldn't Malik be benched instantly because of poor offense?
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islesfan
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12/1/2008  11:47 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Who's talking about championship??? I'm talking about a head coach who doesn't bother to teach the fundamentals of team defense or demand even satisfactory effort on defense.

How come I keep hearing MDA screaming at Nate to go over picks? Or for the team to get back on transition D?

Now I know you are either not watching any games or are purposely putting out an argument for no reason.

Are the held accountable when they don't? There isn't a single thing to suggest that they are.

How are the Knicks in general at getting over picks? At getting back on D? On defensive rotations? On boxing out? On taking charges? On stopping penetration? On defending the pick and roll? Are they getting better at any of these things?

I'm pretty sure there's a good reason behind this argument.

I like having players accoutable to their performance but what kind of punishment are you talking about here? They only have 8 players available after the trade. Now that Al and TT are playing, do you want to see JJFat and Malik instead? D'Antoni chose not to harp on his players defensive lapses during the post-game interviews. I like that. NFL coaches do that all the time. They get on their players behind closed doors. As martin said, MDA was preaching 2 things during the game. 1. Push the ball every time, all the time. 2. Give all out energy on defense. I heard him call out DLee and TT on plays where he said that was just lazy.

Punishment - longer and harder practices focusing on defense and taking away playing time. If that means Big Snacks and Rose get playing time then so be it.

By all means, do it behind closed doors, but there better be signs of improvement when they step back on the court.

Give all out energy on defense? Come on, can you honestly say that this team has done that in any of their games so far?

BY all means, shouldn't Malik be benched instantly because of poor offense?

If he's not trying and constantly turning the ball over, by all means.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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12/1/2008  12:07 PM
Posted by holfresh:

In what was possibly the worst defensive effort I have witnessed by two NBA teams...Our coach only critique was that Lee should have scored 50 points...I think he also said Duhon should have racked up 30 assist...He also said, don't worry they will learn...Golden State fielded what amounted to be a high school all star team last night...No one played defense...What was alarming was that MDA mentioned nothing about lack of defensive effort...In the post game press conference I totally expected the coach to go nuts about the lack of defense...He said nothing...

Spoken like a true isiah guy. You prob think isiah is a better coach then MDA and we are waisting talent with the horrible mistreatment of marbury. Where you at least able to enjoy the game?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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12/1/2008  2:23 PM
You keep singing the same tune...Keep singing, one day it will be a hit....
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