[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Who would you rather sign? Bosh or Amare?
Author Thread
Knicksfan
Posts: 33594
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 7/5/2004
Member: #691
USA
11/24/2008  12:26 AM
Posted by TMS:

Nate starting over Nash? wow, dunno about that one, but i'll take any combo of rosters anyone can think up w/Lebron's name on it.

With Lebron AND Bosh. Remember this is his thread.
Knicks_Fan
AUTOADVERT
Knicksfan
Posts: 33594
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 7/5/2004
Member: #691
USA
11/24/2008  12:30 AM
Posted by TMS:

here's another option for us to re-sign Duhon w/o having to use the MLE on him in 2010:
Non-Bird exception

Free Agents who qualify for this exception are called "non-qualifying free agents" in the CBA, meaning they do not qualify under either the Larry Bird Exception or the Early Bird Exception. Under this exception, teams can re-sign a player to a contract beginning at either 120% of his salary for the previous season, or 120% of the league's minimum salary, whichever amount is higher. Contracts signed under the Non-Bird exception can last up to six years.

since Duhon will not have had 3 years w/this team by 2010, he qualifies for this type of exception... so according to this we can sign him to a Non-Bird exception contract at that point w/o having to use up the MLE... yet another incredibly smart move by Donnie Walsh this offseason by signing Duhon to a 2 year contract & not going the 3rd year.

Im lost here. Where does it states that since he will not be with the team for 3 years he qualifies for this. Please explain.
Knicks_Fan
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/24/2008  12:34 AM
looks like the MLE & the Non Bird exceptions are not an option for us in 2010... thanks for the link broham
How do exceptions count against the cap? Does being under the cap always mean that a team has room to sign free agents? Do teams ever lose their exceptions?

If a team is below the cap, then their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question numbers 29, 30, 31, 32). A team can't act like they're under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.

So being under the cap does not necessarily mean a team has room to sign free agents. For example, assume the cap is $49.5 million, and a team has $43 million committed to salaries. They also have a Mid-Level exception for $5 million and a Traded Player exception for $5.5 million. Even though their salaries put them $6.5 million under the cap, their exceptions are added to their salaries, putting them at $53.5 million, or $4 million over the cap. So they actually have no cap room to sign free agents, and instead must use their exceptions.

Teams have the option of renouncing their exceptions in order to claim the cap room. So in the example above, if the team renounced their Traded Player and Mid-Level exceptions, then the $10.5 million is taken off their team salary, which then totals $43 million, leaving them with $6.5 million of cap room which can then be used to sign free agent(s).

Starting January 10 of each season, the Mid-Level, Bi-Annual, Larry Bird, Early-Bird and Non-Bird exceptions begin to reduce in value. For example, if there are 180 days in the season, then these exceptions (if they are still unused) reduce by 1/180 of their initial value each day starting January 10. If a team uses their $5 million Mid-Level exception on February 1, then the exception is actually worth $4,361,111.

The Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and Traded Player exceptions may be lost entirely, or the team may never receive them to begin with. This happens when their team salary is so low that when the exceptions are added to the team salary, the sum is still below the salary cap. If the team salary is below this level when the exception arises, then the team doesn't get the exception. If the team salary ever drops below this level during the year, then any exceptions they had are lost.

For example, with a $49.5 million salary cap, assume it's the offseason, and a team has $41 million committed to salaries, along with a Mid-Level exception for $5 million, a Traded Player exception for $2.5 million, and an unrenounced free agent whose free agent amount is $2 million. Their salaries and exceptions total $50.5 million, or $1 million over the cap. What if their free agent signs with another team? The $2 million free agent amount comes off their cap, so their team salary drops to $48.5 million. This total is below the cap so the team loses its Mid-Level and Traded Player exceptions.

There is logic behind this. The whole idea behind an "exception" is that it is an exception to the rule which says a team has to be below the salary cap. In other words, an exception is a mechanism which allows a team to function above the cap. If a team isn't over the cap, then the concept of an exception is moot. Therefore, if a team's team salary ever drops this far, its exceptions go away. The effect is that a team may have either exceptions or cap room, but they can't have both.
If a team has more than one exception available to sign a particular player, are there any rules regarding which one it has to use?

The team has the right to choose which of its available exceptions to use to sign a player. However, teams may not combine exceptions, or combine an exception with cap room, in order to sign a player. For example, a team with a $5 million Mid-Level exception and a $2 million in cap room may not combine them to sign a player for $7 million. This is explained more thoroughly in question number 72.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/24/2008  12:35 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by TMS:

here's another option for us to re-sign Duhon w/o having to use the MLE on him in 2010:
Non-Bird exception

Free Agents who qualify for this exception are called "non-qualifying free agents" in the CBA, meaning they do not qualify under either the Larry Bird Exception or the Early Bird Exception. Under this exception, teams can re-sign a player to a contract beginning at either 120% of his salary for the previous season, or 120% of the league's minimum salary, whichever amount is higher. Contracts signed under the Non-Bird exception can last up to six years.

since Duhon will not have had 3 years w/this team by 2010, he qualifies for this type of exception... so according to this we can sign him to a Non-Bird exception contract at that point w/o having to use up the MLE... yet another incredibly smart move by Donnie Walsh this offseason by signing Duhon to a 2 year contract & not going the 3rd year.

Im lost here. Where does it states that since he will not be with the team for 3 years he qualifies for this. Please explain.

my bad, i got it wrong... while Duhon would qualify for a Non Bird exception since he would have only been w/the Knicks 2 years by the time 2010 rolls around, we can't use any exceptions if we're under the cap that year, so it's either or, & we can't use both in either case.

(btw, Bird Rights is what a team gets when a player is w/a team for at least 3 years which allows his team to sign him to a contract extension at a raise even though the team would be over the cap)

[Edited by - TMS on 11-23-2008 9:38 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
toodarkmark
Posts: 21145
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/2/2004
Member: #515
USA
11/24/2008  12:38 AM
Posted by TMS:

Nate starting over Nash? wow, dunno about that one, but i'll take any combo of rosters anyone can think up w/Lebron's name on it.

Well, he'll be 36. I guess maybe he could still start. Either way. Maybe they have Duhon, Nash and Robinson. D'Antoni plays them small anyways.

Referencing the salary cap talk. What if salary cap is 64 mil, and we sign players right up to the last penny, let's say by July 21st. Can we then use the mid-level exception and the non-larry bird rules, by say Oct 1st?

[Edited by - toodarkmark on 11-24-2008 12:42 AM]
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
Knicksfan
Posts: 33594
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 7/5/2004
Member: #691
USA
11/24/2008  12:39 AM
This makes it even more important to find cheap talent, like young prospects still on their rookie contracts, draft picks and players in other leagues talented enough to be valuable pieces on an NBA team. If many stars and solid players have been either drafted in the second round or not been drafted, this certainly is an option.

Say what you want about Isiah, but if you could trust him on something with closed eyes is in the later part of the draft and finding talent in other places. We need that now.
Knicks_Fan
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/24/2008  12:41 AM
Posted by toodarkmark:
Posted by TMS:

Nate starting over Nash? wow, dunno about that one, but i'll take any combo of rosters anyone can think up w/Lebron's name on it.

Well, he'll be 36. I guess maybe he could still start. Either way. Maybe they have Duhon, Nash and Robinson. D'Antoni plays them small anyways.

what about Roberson? surely u have to find a place for him on the 2010 squad.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Knicksfan
Posts: 33594
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 7/5/2004
Member: #691
USA
11/24/2008  12:47 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by toodarkmark:
Posted by TMS:

Nate starting over Nash? wow, dunno about that one, but i'll take any combo of rosters anyone can think up w/Lebron's name on it.

Well, he'll be 36. I guess maybe he could still start. Either way. Maybe they have Duhon, Nash and Robinson. D'Antoni plays them small anyways.

what about Roberson? surely u have to find a place for him on the 2010 squad.

They need a mascot, don't they?
Knicks_Fan
knicksbabyyeah
Posts: 21472
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 8/19/2001
Member: #100
Netherlands
11/24/2008  8:00 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Isn't the MLE available to teams who start off the Summer OVER the cap?

More complicated actually, teams can either use the caproom OR the exceptions but they do not have to be over the cap to use the exceptions.

Teams do have a minimum salary cap they have to have (only the clippers fell short once), so you can't have 13 minimum salary players on the roster.

This is actually more so that a team a couple of mil under the cap isn't penalized and can use exceptions like everyone else in the league.
Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
11/24/2008  10:42 AM
Amare is better IMO. You can't find another center that does what he does. He is faster then Yao, Shoots better then Howard and is 26.

He is bigger and stronger then Bosh, and only like 18months older.

[Edited by - anji on 11-24-2008 10:44 AM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Knicksfan
Posts: 33594
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 7/5/2004
Member: #691
USA
11/24/2008  11:15 AM
Bosh is way better on defense and would be a perfect C for D'Antoni's system.
Knicks_Fan
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/24/2008  11:27 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Bosh is way better on defense and would be a perfect C for D'Antoni's system.

I don't think Mike will want Amare.
He had problems with him already and he likes versatile players who can do multiple things.
Bosh is all-around player and Mike will love this.
But in general dealing with stars like LeBron will be tuff for Mike.
He likes robots that run the system; not stars who want to be The Man in fist place.


[Edited by - arkrud on 11-24-2008 11:28 AM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Knicksfan
Posts: 33594
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 7/5/2004
Member: #691
USA
11/24/2008  12:13 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Bosh is way better on defense and would be a perfect C for D'Antoni's system.

I don't think Mike will want Amare.
He had problems with him already and he likes versatile players who can do multiple things.
Bosh is all-around player and Mike will love this.
But in general dealing with stars like LeBron will be tuff for Mike.
He likes robots that run the system; not stars who want to be The Man in fist place.


[Edited by - arkrud on 11-24-2008 11:28 AM]

If we do sign Lebron and Bosh and they don't work out for D'Antoni then its bye bye Mike. Once we have them on the team the sky is the limit, whether its with Mike or with somebody else. But one thing, he had no problem with them in the Olympics and he certainly didn't have a problem with Nash and Amare in Phoenix. Mike D will be fine with them.
Knicks_Fan
Who would you rather sign? Bosh or Amare?

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy