Posted by BlueSeats:

"You can't rebuild in NY."

That was the lamest excuse for supporting all the crap we endured from Marbury, Eddy, Isiah, et al.

No telling where we will end up, or how long it will take, but there are worse ways to bottom out than a rebuild, and we've tried them all.

Congratulations to Walsh, Dolan and D'.

And thank you Isiah for screwing the pooch so bad that there were no alternatives.

Now we have a chance.

Posted by BigC:

I don't think the Knicks upgraded in talent. Zach is much better than any of those players that we have received. Also Jamal has more game than Harrington. That being said we have cap room and that is the reason why this is a good trade. As far as Mobley, I don't know the last time he looked like he still had some skills. I think his defense was ok before but in recent years you can see opponents tearing him up. Who knows maybe Mobley and Harrington come with some fire as rent-a-players for 2 years. Until then just enjoy the cap room.

Yeah, the word I'm getting from Warrior fans is that they are ecstatic to get rid of Harrington. Harrington struggled in arguably the most wide open offense in the league and he's a headcase. This is all about cap, I dont expect much from any of these players

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by fishmike:

you know what though? I dont think this changes our win total

MDA has a lot of firepower to work with and this team will be able to score.

I agree. I'm not sure we didn't upgrade our talent.

I have to disagree. A bunch of garbage in the low post. Harrington is the forward version of Crawford. His replacement is 87-years-old. But I guess we have Tim Thomas's toughness to be thankful for.

I like Mobley better than Crawford. He's tougher and abetter defender. You'll have less 25 ppg manic streaks, but he's a more consistent performer when both sides of the floor are taken into account. Harrington and TT can do well in this system, and Harrington is a defensive upgrade from Zach. What we will lose are Zach's rebounds, but Lee and Lips will have to pick up the slack.

In the end, I think we lost a little glitz on the offensive end but made up for it with better defensive grind, at the same time as unburdening ourselves from suffocating contracts.

At the worst, I'm wrong and we lose a handful more games this year to better our odds in the draft. And, as a general rule, I think doing well in the draft is of even greater importance than free agency.

Which isn't to say this specific draft is more important than going for Lebron, I mean over the course of many years. But in this instance we could benefit on both ends of the equation.

We'll see... Both Mobley and Harrington are sub-10's in efficiency ratings, meaning both are well below the league average, and both will have prominent roles on this team. Tim Thomas certainly won't be picking up the slack. Not to mention I have to root for him again. Ugh!

When you trade small for big, usually the small is the better player. For as average as Crawford is, I'd say he's better than Harrington. And when you do a 2 for 1 swap (Collins was only included so the Knicks didn't have to buy anyone out) there is a talent downgrade. I mean, who worries the other team? Crawford is average but he could go for 50. Randolph, despite his limitations, was still a 20-10 guy.

I see it as a downgrade. I don't want to. Especially because this is the New York Knicks for the next two years. But I do.

Let me just backtrack a little bit.
I'm not really even looking at it from a strictly talent for talent basis.
I just don't think it's going to set the team back much from a performance standpoint. It's not like anyone had established themselves in a go to role. We were still just a bunch of guys
running around enough to get open looks.

But we have to give it a couple of weeks for the new guys to acclimate before we know for sure.

Oh, I hear you. Well, for the sake of my mental health, I hope you're right and there is some synergy here and the whole can be greater than the parts. And it does seem like Walsh acquired pieces that fit the Knicks, as opposed to the Isiah-type acquisitions.

I'm like happy and sad. After the first 11 games of 164, the Knicks essentially threw in the towel. I know it's the move to make to build a contender, but anyone who picks "SupremeCommander" as a username is going to have a tough time laying down like this so soon and so completely.

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by Panos:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by fishmike:

you know what though? I dont think this changes our win total

MDA has a lot of firepower to work with and this team will be able to score.

I agree. I'm not sure we didn't upgrade our talent.

I have to disagree. A bunch of garbage in the low post. Harrington is the forward version of Crawford. His replacement is 87-years-old. But I guess we have Tim Thomas's toughness to be thankful for.

I like Mobley better than Crawford. He's tougher and abetter defender. You'll have less 25 ppg manic streaks, but he's a more consistent performer when both sides of the floor are taken into account. Harrington and TT can do well in this system, and Harrington is a defensive upgrade from Zach. What we will lose are Zach's rebounds, but Lee and Lips will have to pick up the slack.

In the end, I think we lost a little glitz on the offensive end but made up for it with better defensive grind, at the same time as unburdening ourselves from suffocating contracts.

At the worst, I'm wrong and we lose a handful more games this year to better our odds in the draft. And, as a general rule, I think doing well in the draft is of even greater importance than free agency.

Which isn't to say this specific draft is more important than going for Lebron, I mean over the course of many years. But in this instance we could benefit on both ends of the equation.

We'll see... Both Mobley and Harrington are sub-10's in efficiency ratings, meaning both are well below the league average, and both will have prominent roles on this team. Tim Thomas certainly won't be picking up the slack. Not to mention I have to root for him again. Ugh!

When you trade small for big, usually the small is the better player. For as average as Crawford is, I'd say he's better than Harrington. And when you do a 2 for 1 swap (Collins was only included so the Knicks didn't have to buy anyone out) there is a talent downgrade. I mean, who worries the other team? Crawford is average but he could go for 50. Randolph, despite his limitations, was still a 20-10 guy.

I see it as a downgrade. I don't want to. Especially because this is the New York Knicks for the next two years. But I do.

Here's a little upside for you SC.
Not only are these guys gone in 2010, but also they are shorter deals than the ones that went out the door which means they are commodities that can be moved again. The key has always been toward more flexibility, and I think we just achieved that a little.

Thanks bud. I do understand that the New York Knicks got better overall for the reasons you're talking about. But this team is not going to be good this year... and that kind of makes me sad. I didn't watch a single game las tseason because I knew how bad it was going to be. This year, I went to the Utah game and left being impressed with how closely they resembled a team. I thought I was going to get to go to a playoff game or two this season. They would have lost, but you know. It would have been nice.

And I know there's no point about building for the playoffs if there is no chance of being a contender. I know that. But, damnit, I'm tired of this team being so bad. And, like Blue said, Isiah made this the ony option the team had. But it still stinks.

I have to prep myself here though. Seems like some people are making this into a massive victory celebration. Yeah it's good for July 2010. But it is still November 2008. I'm not sure everyone realizes how bad it might get. But, hey, I guess Russia won World War II.

I guess, I'm just saying that even without the 2010 horizon, there's no reason we have to stop here.
We can turn around any continue to deal NOW with players who's long term financial impact won't have
other GMs hanging up the phones. For whatever that may be worth... but what do I know.

Posted by Panos:

I guess, I'm just saying that even without the 2010 horizon, there's no reason we have to stop here.
We can turn around any continue to deal NOW with players who's long term financial impact won't have
other GMs hanging up the phones. For whatever that may be worth... but what do I know.

Posted by tkf:

Posted by BlueSeats:

"You can't rebuild in NY."

That was the lamest excuse for supporting all the crap we endured from Marbury, Eddy, Isiah, et al.

No telling where we will end up, or how long it will take, but there are worse ways to bottom out than a rebuild, and we've tried them all.

Congratulations to Walsh, Dolan and D'.

And thank you Isiah for screwing the pooch so bad that there were no alternatives.

Now we have a chance.

exactly.. and just think. we can now talk about guys like lebron without having to heard the comments about being over the cap!! wow.. I can't believe it..

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by Panos:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by fishmike:

you know what though? I dont think this changes our win total

MDA has a lot of firepower to work with and this team will be able to score.

I agree. I'm not sure we didn't upgrade our talent.

I have to disagree. A bunch of garbage in the low post. Harrington is the forward version of Crawford. His replacement is 87-years-old. But I guess we have Tim Thomas's toughness to be thankful for.

I like Mobley better than Crawford. He's tougher and abetter defender. You'll have less 25 ppg manic streaks, but he's a more consistent performer when both sides of the floor are taken into account. Harrington and TT can do well in this system, and Harrington is a defensive upgrade from Zach. What we will lose are Zach's rebounds, but Lee and Lips will have to pick up the slack.

In the end, I think we lost a little glitz on the offensive end but made up for it with better defensive grind, at the same time as unburdening ourselves from suffocating contracts.

At the worst, I'm wrong and we lose a handful more games this year to better our odds in the draft. And, as a general rule, I think doing well in the draft is of even greater importance than free agency.

Which isn't to say this specific draft is more important than going for Lebron, I mean over the course of many years. But in this instance we could benefit on both ends of the equation.

We'll see... Both Mobley and Harrington are sub-10's in efficiency ratings, meaning both are well below the league average, and both will have prominent roles on this team. Tim Thomas certainly won't be picking up the slack. Not to mention I have to root for him again. Ugh!

When you trade small for big, usually the small is the better player. For as average as Crawford is, I'd say he's better than Harrington. And when you do a 2 for 1 swap (Collins was only included so the Knicks didn't have to buy anyone out) there is a talent downgrade. I mean, who worries the other team? Crawford is average but he could go for 50. Randolph, despite his limitations, was still a 20-10 guy.

I see it as a downgrade. I don't want to. Especially because this is the New York Knicks for the next two years. But I do.

Here's a little upside for you SC.
Not only are these guys gone in 2010, but also they are shorter deals than the ones that went out the door which means they are commodities that can be moved again. The key has always been toward more flexibility, and I think we just achieved that a little.

Thanks bud. I do understand that the New York Knicks got better overall for the reasons you're talking about. But this team is not going to be good this year... and that kind of makes me sad. I didn't watch a single game las tseason because I knew how bad it was going to be. This year, I went to the Utah game and left being impressed with how closely they resembled a team. I thought I was going to get to go to a playoff game or two this season. They would have lost, but you know. It would have been nice.

And I know there's no point about building for the playoffs if there is no chance of being a contender. I know that. But, damnit, I'm tired of this team being so bad. And, like Blue said, Isiah made this the ony option the team had. But it still stinks.

I have to prep myself here though. Seems like some people are making this into a massive victory celebration. Yeah it's good for July 2010. But it is still November 2008. I'm not sure everyone realizes how bad it might get. But, hey, I guess Russia won World War II.

I also wonder what is going to be the players attitude now. Are the players just going play half azz because they feel they are only rent-a-players? How is Mike D going to motivate his players? What will be next for Nate and Lee?

Right now I only think Chandler has a future as a Knick.


Well at least Tim Thomas and Marbury are reunited.

Posted by BigC:


I also wonder what is going to be the players attitude now. Are the players just going play half azz because they feel they are only rent-a-players? How is Mike D going to motivate his players? What will be next for Nate and Lee?

Right now I only think Chandler has a future as a Knick.


Well at least Tim Thomas and Marbury are reunited.

Posted by 4949:

Donnie and D'Antoni think Harrington can fit right into this style of play. They said that about Duhon and look at him now! Let's see what he can do first before we start listening to Warrior fans. Sometimes, all it takes is a change of scenery to make one better.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by 4949:

Donnie and D'Antoni think Harrington can fit right into this style of play. They said that about Duhon and look at him now! Let's see what he can do first before we start listening to Warrior fans. Sometimes, all it takes is a change of scenery to make one better.

that's what i'm sayin. It seems many of us are stuck in the thinking of the past so much that we haven't accepted the current status of the front office. We have a new regime!!! These guys get results!!! PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON!!! GEEZ! All this doubt after what we've witnessed so far is incredible.

Duhon was supposed to be garbage and when some of us said he could shine under MDA who helped Nash improve, we got shouted down. Give MDA a chance to see what he can do to get guys to fit in. And once again these moves don't mean Walsh is done. He has other options to improve the team.

You think Mike D has made Duhon a better player? He is the same player he was on the Bulls. The only difference is Knick fans have not watched Duhon play and Duhon is getting career breaking minutes for him as a Knick.