Posted by oohah:

Is Stephen Curry even as good as Jason Terry at the college level?

oohah

Well to me his play at the college level isn't the problem. He had some nice games last year as basically a one man army getting his team pretty far in the tournament and so far this year it's more of the same - he's been a great one man show putting up back to back 30+ point games. For me, it's how his game translates to the next level that's the big question. Does his game ever evolve any further? He's a scorer but does he have enough size to play the 2 effectively? Does he have enough overall skill to play the point and run an NBA club where he'll be expected to get NBA veterans involved? He's gonna be asked to handle the ball much more this year - will that hurt him in the long run or wind up making him a better player? Legit questions that I think are impossible to answer right now without further evaluation. Tell you what, if the Knicks indeed like this kid, they should be watching every single game he plays in this year to see if he makes the overall progress (other than scoring) necessary to warrant a probable lottery selection. They'll be a spot for him at the next level (like I said earlier I think he brings more to the table than a Steve Kerr or a Juan Dixon) but as of right now I'm not sure it's as a primary lead guard for a team. If anything, from what I've seen so far, I think he'd be at his best working off a good lead guard at the next level rather than having the additional responsibility of creating for others. As of right now he still has to show me more before I ever gave him the keys to drive the bus. Let's look at some of the names being thrown around as comparisons to this kid:

Steve Nash - Nash, a two-time MVP, is one of the most complete PGs I've ever seen. As good a shooter as Nash is, he'll always be a pass first PG. Curry, on the other hand, is strickly a 'me first' guy all the way. I see a few similarities (the shooting stroke, the coolness under pressure) but overall I don't care for the comparison.

Ben Gordon - A much better comparison. I like the comparison. Good call. He's one of the primary scorers on the Bulls but a guy that's at his best working off a Kirk Hinrich or a Derrick Rose since he's been in the NBA much like Curry being at his best playing off the ball looking for his offense.

Jerryd Bayless - Similar styles (in that they're both offensive-oriented shoot first types) and similar knocks as far as how their games will translate in the NBA. Off the two, Bayless to me is just the superior talent package. Bayless is quicker and a much better athlete (Curry has nowhere near the athletic ability this kid has), has a better handle (more of a PG's handle), is a better slasher and finisher and is probably stronger - To me, out of these two undersized scorers, Bayless has the better overall ability. He's not only a more complete scorer but IMO he's also got the better tools & skill-set to tackle the PG position in the NBA.

Jason Terry - Talented, always can shoot and score, but there's a reason he's not the primary guard for Dallas. First it was Harris then it became Jason Kidd. Terry's at his best looking for his own offense not setting it up for others whereas guys like J Kidd and Nash (and even Chris Duhon and Sergio Rodriguez to name a few more) are at their best getting others involved first and looking for theirs second.

John Starks - Reminds me of John Starks the 3-pt. gunner the last few yrs. of his career (Curry to be fair looks to have a much purer stroke than John every had). But even Starks knew when and where to get the ball to Ewing (he was known to give Ewing the best entry passes out of all the guards they had when they were good). Starks, earlier in his career however, was absolutely fearless going to the rim and played tough and strong defense despite being undersized at the 2 and had a pretty good handle (he actually had some double digit assist games when he had to fill in and play some point). You can make a good argument that the younger John Starks actually brought more to the table overall than Stephen Curry.

Bobbie Gibson - Curry's a little bigger, but they're very similar. For Cleveland and Texas before that Gibson was at his best playing off the ball looking for his perimeter game. Both possess very good shooting strokes. Like Jason Terry though, there's a reason Gibson never become the starting PG for the Cavs, who were using Delonte West last year in that role before making the trade for Mo Williams this off-season. And it's not a knock on Gibson, a guy I actually liked for the Knicks at one point in a hypothetical Zach-to-Cleveland-deal we had discussed (he's got good quickness & a decent handle himself) before coming to the conclusion that his long-term contract was too much of a put-off.

Vernon Maxwell - he's a gunner like Vern was, but I'd have to say he's got more skill than this guy ever had. Not the best comparison I came up with, the more I think about it.

Nate Robinson - Curry obviously doesn't have the height limitation working against Nate but on the other hand he has nowhere near the athletic ability or quickness Nate has. Similar in that they're both scorers first and formost. Nate's actually shown flashes of running a decent show recently when he's out there as well as looking for his own when it's there. Will Curry show that ability this year?

Jamal Crawford - Much like Crawford when his jumper's off, I'd be a little fearful that Curry would have trouble having any impact in other parts of the game (going to the basket to get their offense that way, getting others involved, playing D, etc.). A similarity I see is that they both hang out on the perimeter a little too much.


[Edited by - finestrg on 11-19-2008 10:21 PM]

Posted by oohah:

Finestrg, I think Curry comes up on the lower end of a comparison any of those guys you brought up except maybe Boobie Gibson. Curry is a talented player on a team that has nobody nearly as good as he so he gets to shoot as much as he wants and score a lot. When I see Curry I see an NBA bench player shooting specialist maybe.

oohah

Don't you think he is able to develop into a player able to run an offense like ours? Imagine a guy that can run the system as effective as Duhon but has that great shooting range to actually be one of the main scoring threats on the team. Is that unlikely from him?

Posted by Finestrg:

Posted by oohah:

Is Stephen Curry even as good as Jason Terry at the college level?

oohah

Well to me his play at the college level isn't the problem. He had some nice games last year as basically a one man army getting his team pretty far in the tournament and so far this year it's more of the same - he's been a great one man show putting up back to back 30+ point games. For me, it's how his game translates to the next level that's the big question. Does his game ever evolve any further? He's a scorer but does he have enough size to play the 2 effectively? Does he have enough overall skill to play the point and run an NBA club where he'll be expected to get NBA veterans involved? He's gonna be asked to handle the ball much more this year - will that hurt him in the long run or wind up making him a better player? Legit questions that I think are impossible to answer right now without further evaluation. Tell you what, if the Knicks indeed like this kid, they should be watching every single game he plays in this year to see if he makes the overall progress (other than scoring) necessary to warrant a probable lottery selection. They'll be a spot for him at the next level (like I said earlier I think he brings more to the table than a Steve Kerr or a Juan Dixon) but as of right now I'm not sure it's as a primary lead guard for a team. If anything, from what I've seen so far, I think he'd be at his best working off a good lead guard at the next level rather than having the additional responsibility of creating for others. As of right now he still has to show me more before I ever gave him the keys to drive the bus. Let's look at some of the names being thrown around as comparisons to this kid:

Steve Nash - Nash, a two-time MVP, is one of the most complete PGs I've ever seen. As good a shooter as Nash is, he'll always be a pass first PG. Curry, on the other hand, is strickly a 'me first' guy all the way. I see a few similarities (the shooting stroke, the coolness under pressure) but overall I don't care for the comparison.

Ben Gordon - A much better comparison. I like the comparison. Good call. He's one of the primary scorers on the Bulls but a guy that's at his best working off a Kirk Hinrich or a Derrick Rose since he's been in the NBA much like Curry being at his best playing off the ball looking for his offense.

Jerryd Bayless - Similar styles (in that they're both offensive-oriented shoot first types) and similar knocks as far as how their games will translate in the NBA. Off the two, Bayless to me is just the superior talent package. Bayless is quicker and a much better athlete (Curry has nowhere near the athletic ability this kid has), has a better handle (more of a PG's handle), is a better slasher and finisher and is probably stronger - To me, out of these two undersized scorers, Bayless has the better overall ability. He's not only a more complete scorer but IMO he's also got the better tools & skill-set to tackle the PG position in the NBA.

Jason Terry - Talented, always can shoot and score, but there's a reason he's not the primary guard for Dallas. First it was Harris then it became Jason Kidd. Terry's at his best looking for his own offense not setting it up for others whereas guys like J Kidd and Nash (and even Chris Duhon and Sergio Rodriguez to name a few more) are at their best getting others involved first and looking for theirs second.

John Starks - Reminds me of John Starks the 3-pt. gunner the last few yrs. of his career (Curry to be fair looks to have a much purer stroke than John every had). But even Starks knew when and where to get the ball to Ewing (he was known to give Ewing the best entry passes out of all the guards they had when they were good). Starks, earlier in his career however, was absolutely fearless going to the rim and played tough and strong defense despite being undersized at the 2 and had a pretty good handle (he actually had some double digit assist games when he had to fill in and play some point). You can make a good argument that the younger John Starks actually brought more to the table overall than Stephen Curry.

Bobbie Gibson - Curry's a little bigger, but they're very similar. For Cleveland and Texas before that Gibson was at his best playing off the ball looking for his perimeter game. Both possess very good shooting strokes. Like Jason Terry though, there's a reason Gibson never become the starting PG for the Cavs, who were using Delonte West last year in that role before making the trade for Mo Williams this off-season. And it's not a knock on Gibson, a guy I actually liked for the Knicks at one point in a hypothetical Zach-to-Cleveland-deal we had discussed (he's got good quickness & a decent handle himself) before coming to the conclusion that his long-term contract was too much of a put-off.

Vernon Maxwell - he's a gunner like Vern was, but I'd have to say he's got more skill than this guy ever had. Not the best comparison I came up with, the more I think about it.

Nate Robinson - Curry obviously doesn't have the height limitation working against Nate but on the other hand he has nowhere near the athletic ability or quickness Nate has. Similar in that they're both scorers first and formost. Nate's actually shown flashes of running a decent show recently when he's out there as well as looking for his own when it's there. Will Curry show that ability this year?

Jamal Crawford - Much like Crawford when his jumper's off, I'd be a little fearful that Curry would have trouble having any impact in other parts of the game (going to the basket to get their offense that way, getting others involved, playing D, etc.). A similarity I see is that they both hang out on the perimeter a little too much.


[Edited by - finestrg on 11-19-2008 10:21 PM]

Juan Dixon?

Posted by Finestrg:

Posted by Ira:

The whole question about Curry is how well he adapts to playing pg. If he doesn't he's a very undersized 2. If he does, watch him move up the draft.

That's it in a nut shell right there. He's not there yet. We'll have to see...

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by Finestrg:

Posted by Ira:

The whole question about Curry is how well he adapts to playing pg. If he doesn't he's a very undersized 2. If he does, watch him move up the draft.

That's it in a nut shell right there. He's not there yet. We'll have to see...

He's only three games into the season, but I'm not sure this year will answer that or not. Davidson played some garbage teams the first two games and Curry had 10 and 9 assists respectively. Against Oklahoma though, he only had 3 assists, but that may be more because he is the only top-flight talent on the team and they needed him to shoot (12 for) 29 times for 44 points (6 - 15 3pt) to stay in the game. We'll see how his assists and A:TO do against top teams as the season progresses. I will say that I reallllllllly like that he has 15 steals in three games.

Posted by Knicksfan:

Posted by oohah:

Finestrg, I think Curry comes up on the lower end of a comparison any of those guys you brought up except maybe Boobie Gibson. Curry is a talented player on a team that has nobody nearly as good as he so he gets to shoot as much as he wants and score a lot. When I see Curry I see an NBA bench player shooting specialist maybe.

oohah

Don't you think he is able to develop into a player able to run an offense like ours? Imagine a guy that can run the system as effective as Duhon but has that great shooting range to actually be one of the main scoring threats on the team. Is that unlikely from him?

Curry doesn't strike me as a natural PG. I don't see him as a guy who runs offenses, I see him ass a shooting specialist. If I had Curry and Duhon I would want Duhon setting up the offense and Curry shooting -- If he is able to beat out guys like Crawford and Robinson and that is a big if.

oohah