Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by Marv:

Posted by 4949:

Posted by TMS:

i think AI is a better player than Billups & his contract's an expiring... don't see where the Pistons made a bad trade on that one, but of course if he comes in & spoils the team chemistry they already had then obviously u can make a great argument... time will tell whether that was a good trade or not but personally i would have had no problems if say Walsh had traded Marbs & D Lee for AI for example.

That's one I would consider. Plus Detroit's not doing bad at 4-2 at this time.

yeah and that's 0-2 since picking up ai. meanwhile denver's 2-0 since dumping him.

That's if you believe Dumars' goal is to win with Iverson. I personally don't believe that's the case. I think they are rebuilding and positioning themselves.

could be. but meanwhile they have a rookie coach who's supposed to hold down the fort through all of this. and rasheed who'll probably blow up if they're losing. and a bunch of young players who are going to be affected strongly by this if it goes sour and turns into turmoil on the team.

Posted by 4949:

Posted by TMS:

i think AI is a better player than Billups & his contract's an expiring... don't see where the Pistons made a bad trade on that one, but of course if he comes in & spoils the team chemistry they already had then obviously u can make a great argument... time will tell whether that was a good trade or not but personally i would have had no problems if say Walsh had traded Marbs & D Lee for AI for example.

That's one I would consider. Plus Detroit's not doing bad at 4-2 at this time.

i don't think DET would be interested in moving AI right now after they just traded for him, especially to pick up Marbs... that's not happening sorry to say... D Lee is good but he's nowhere in AI's class as a player & DET already has Jason Maxiell who does alot of what D Lee does w/more athleticism coming off the bench.

i think Joe D made this trade w/2010 in mind & whatever he gets out of AI is a bonus, but he did pick up the more talented player in this trade & he unloaded cap in the process... i think it was a no brainer.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by Marv:

Posted by 4949:

Posted by TMS:

i think AI is a better player than Billups & his contract's an expiring... don't see where the Pistons made a bad trade on that one, but of course if he comes in & spoils the team chemistry they already had then obviously u can make a great argument... time will tell whether that was a good trade or not but personally i would have had no problems if say Walsh had traded Marbs & D Lee for AI for example.

That's one I would consider. Plus Detroit's not doing bad at 4-2 at this time.

yeah and that's 0-2 since picking up ai. meanwhile denver's 2-0 since dumping him.

That's if you believe Dumars' goal is to win with Iverson. I personally don't believe that's the case. I think they are rebuilding and positioning themselves.

Either way, it comes out in a position in the end.

Posted by GKFv2:

I hope Alan Hahn is right. This was his response to a similar email to him.

George,

I seriously doubt they scrap any plans for 2010. Whatever success they have now is gravy. I firmly believe this is all about getting a superstar to build around. This year and next is all about what players they want to keep with the future plan and what players are expendable (and also moving those hefty contracts). They love seeing Zach Randolph put up huge numbers because it helps them in the short term to win games and helps them up his trade value so they can move him. Win-win.

Best,
Alan

I think he's 100% right, why would you think that Walsh is changing his plans? Because people on this site are excited? Because Isiah changed his plan every 3 minutes and that's what we think GM's do?

Walsh has a new coach and is going to build a team for him. That is what GM's do. This year is 100% evaluation and has not changed. First years are always about who the coach can win with. If we win while we are evaluating that's a good thing.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 11-11-2008 06:31 AM]

who the hell roots for the team to lose? all i'm saying is i think we'd be better off if we lost more games & finished w/a better lottery pick cuz that would increase our chances of landing a franchise calibre talent in the draft... only an idiot would sit & watch games & root against their team tho during the game, that's retarded... i like seeing them win games & playing hard as much as the next guy... but when i look at the big picture i don't see the value in making another retarded starphuch trade in order to squeeze a few extra wins out of this season when those wins are just counting against our chances of landing that top young talent in the draft.

it boggles the mind how y'all can't understand the concept of the whole 2010 plan... it's not a Lebron or bust plan for the umpteenth time already... what we're asking for is not to make retarded trades like the ones we've been making for the past several years now, & like some of the brilliant trade proposals that have been popping up around these boards of late for guys like Vince freakin' Carter for God's sakes... we wanna see the team continue to amass young talent, make smart trades to acquire draft picks & expirings to gain flexibility & add to the youthful talent base, & then look to make that big splash later, either via free agency or via trade like the Celtics did when a real franchise talent became available & they had the pieces to swing a deal for him.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-11-2008 05:48 AM]

Posted by TMS:

Back to 2010...there is so much luck involved that pinning all your hopes on 2010 is a dream. A dream we should be ready for, but not pin all of our hopes on.

so what are u saying there? u wanna be ready for 2010 or don't u? first u say to hell with 2010 & then u say u wanna be ready when 2010 comes just in case? make up ur mind already bro... u wanna work to be under the cap in 2010 or don't u?

What I am saying here is that building a team and planning for 2010 is not mutually exclusive.

But to hell with forgetting about everything but the pie in the sky plan of the magical free agent who delivers us a championship.

oohah

Posted by TMS:

Christ's sake, u have no other point so u have to keep pining over that point that i already told u was a moot one... no one's pining all their hopes on Lebron yet u keep saying they are... this is pointless to discuss w/u if u're gonna insist on injecting ur own misguided interpretations on other people's opinions.

Are you the same guy who put my name o a list that read: anti-2010 plan?

I don't know how you can say I am misinterpreting what you have been posting for weeks now...please clear it up for me.

You keep on going on about 2010 and dumping salaries and not much else...not one word about getting a solid player who can help the team. Every trade idea you shoot down talking about 2010. You're dissing guys who want the team to be good now or soon because supposedly we are not thinking about 2010 and only 2010, it is on a thread(s) on this very front page right now. Please tell me, or even better, show me what I am missing.

I don;t even know what the moot point is that you say I am harping on. Is it the one that you posted in the black and white poll? http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=28835

By the way TMS, you're the one injecting your own misguided interpretations onto other people's opinions...except maybe BRIGGS.

oohah

Posted by oohah:

Only a lunatic can watch their own team night in and out rooting against them. So if you want to sit back and root for losses, why not just go sissy like DJ and root for the Craptors and come back when the team is good? What is the point of sitting down and rooting for your team to lose?

the only sissy around these parts is fish.

but i will hijack this thread for a few minutes...

unlike many people here, i had season tickets. i went to about 90% of the games. and arguably during the worst tenure in knicks history. so not only was i emotionally invested in the team, i was financially invested as well. now, nobody was holding a gun to my head and telling me to buy season tickets but b/c i did, my emotional connection to the team changed dramatically as i sat there and watched this nonsense play out. i was as big a fan as you could be, but then it got to the point where i wanted to watch the team lose. in fact, the last time i cheered for the team, a good play they made, a game they won, like sat there and cheered was during the 2005/2006 season. and then i was very vociferous on these forums displaying my disdain for management and the players here. so during the course of my season ticket tenure, i went from being a die hard orange and blue fan to a guy that disliked everything about the team. and like an idiot, i continued to get season tix for 2 more years after that hoping that would change. but it didn't.

and as of december 2007, i totally realized i was no longer a fan of the team.

something just clicked and i came to that realization. i can't explain it, but it just happened. i no longer like the knicks. and the clincher was that i became apathetic towards them, which means no emotion whatsoever. i never thought it could happen, but it did. so the knicks to me, are in the same boat as the nets, clippers, grizzlies, etc...just another team in the league i personally don't care about. now, one of my very good friends work's there so i hope they do well for her benefit, but that's about it. i continue to post on these forums b/c of the relationships i've made here and the people i've met. plus, i like talking about basketball. will i ever be a *fan* again? who knows, i never thought i could ever stop liking them but it happened. so never say never...but i've moved on. and my view on sports in general has changed...so i don't think i can ever become a fan of the knicks like i used to be.

********************

now back to the topic at hand...i feel that if you can't sit there and cheer for the team, or the players, then it's best to take a break from them. sports is supposed to be about fun and support (imho), so if you can't support, then find something you can. why beat yourself up constantly bashing a team, player, or management that you can't change? why not sit back and enjoy the product instead? or as douchah puts it, why cheer for your team to lose? this is a total 180 of how i used to view being a *fan* as recent as 1 year ago, but the knicks have changed how i view sports altogether.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2008 10:41 AM]

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by oohah:

Only a lunatic can watch their own team night in and out rooting against them. So if you want to sit back and root for losses, why not just go sissy like DJ and root for the Craptors and come back when the team is good? What is the point of sitting down and rooting for your team to lose?

the only sissy around these parts is fish.

but i will hijack this thread for a few minutes...

unlike many people here, i had season tickets. i went to about 90% of the games. and arguably during the worst tenure in knicks history. so not only was i emotionally invested in the team, i was financially invested as well. now, nobody was holding a gun to my head and telling me to buy season tickets but b/c i did, my emotional connection to the team changed dramatically as i sat there and watched this nonsense play out. i was as big a fan as you could be, but then it got to the point where i wanted to watch the team lose. in fact, the last time i cheered for the team, a good play they made, a game they won, like sat there and cheered was during the 2005/2006 season. and then i was very vociferous on these forums displaying my disdain for management and the players here. so during the course of my season ticket tenure, i went from being a die hard orange and blue fan to a guy that disliked everything about the team. and like an idiot, i continued to get season tix for 2 more years after that hoping that would change. but it didn't.

and as of december 2007, i totally realized i was no longer a fan of the team.

something just clicked and i came to that realization. i can't explain it, but it just happened. i no longer like the knicks. and the clincher was that i became apathetic towards them, which means no emotion whatsoever. i never thought it could happen, but it did. so the knicks to me, are in the same boat as the nets, clippers, grizzlies, etc...just another team in the league i personally don't care about. now, one of my very good friends work's there so i hope they do well for her benefit, but that's about it. i continue to post on these forums b/c of the relationships i've made here and the people i've met. plus, i like talking about basketball. will i ever be a *fan* again? who knows, i never thought i could ever stop liking them but it happened. so never say never...but i've moved on. and my view on sports in general has changed...so i don't think i can ever become a fan of the knicks like i used to be.

********************

now back to the topic at hand...i feel that if you can't sit there and cheer for the team, or the players, then it's best to take a break from them. sports is supposed to be about fun and support (imho), so if you can't support, then find something you can. why beat yourself up constantly bashing a team, player, or management that you can't change? why not sit back and enjoy the product instead? or as douchah puts it, why cheer for your team to lose? this is a total 180 of how i used to view being a *fan* as recent as 1 year ago, but the knicks have changed how i view sports altogether.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2008 10:41 AM]

you're still a sissy for liking the craptors, and other assorted reasons.

Posted by Marv:

sorry, i love dumars, but ai was a BAD pickup for this team.

Not about this year for Detroit though. Its all about 2010.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by oohah:

Only a lunatic can watch their own team night in and out rooting against them. So if you want to sit back and root for losses, why not just go sissy like DJ and root for the Craptors and come back when the team is good? What is the point of sitting down and rooting for your team to lose?

the only sissy around these parts is fish.

but i will hijack this thread for a few minutes...

unlike many people here, i had season tickets. i went to about 90% of the games. and arguably during the worst tenure in knicks history. so not only was i emotionally invested in the team, i was financially invested as well. now, nobody was holding a gun to my head and telling me to buy season tickets but b/c i did, my emotional connection to the team changed dramatically as i sat there and watched this nonsense play out. i was as big a fan as you could be, but then it got to the point where i wanted to watch the team lose. in fact, the last time i cheered for the team, a good play they made, a game they won, like sat there and cheered was during the 2005/2006 season. and then i was very vociferous on these forums displaying my disdain for management and the players here. so during the course of my season ticket tenure, i went from being a die hard orange and blue fan to a guy that disliked everything about the team. and like an idiot, i continued to get season tix for 2 more years after that hoping that would change. but it didn't.

and as of december 2007, i totally realized i was no longer a fan of the team.

something just clicked and i came to that realization. i can't explain it, but it just happened. i no longer like the knicks. and the clincher was that i became apathetic towards them, which means no emotion whatsoever. i never thought it could happen, but it did. so the knicks to me, are in the same boat as the nets, clippers, grizzlies, etc...just another team in the league i personally don't care about. now, one of my very good friends work's there so i hope they do well for her benefit, but that's about it. i continue to post on these forums b/c of the relationships i've made here and the people i've met. plus, i like talking about basketball. will i ever be a *fan* again? who knows, i never thought i could ever stop liking them but it happened. so never say never...but i've moved on. and my view on sports in general has changed...so i don't think i can ever become a fan of the knicks like i used to be.

********************

now back to the topic at hand...i feel that if you can't sit there and cheer for the team, or the players, then it's best to take a break from them. sports is supposed to be about fun and support (imho), so if you can't support, then find something you can. why beat yourself up constantly bashing a team, player, or management that you can't change? why not sit back and enjoy the product instead? or as douchah puts it, why cheer for your team to lose? this is a total 180 of how i used to view being a *fan* as recent as 1 year ago, but the knicks have changed how i view sports altogether.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 11-11-2008 10:41 AM]

I stopped gamepicker cuz I was rooting for them to lose when I had them picked as such. This after two top 5 finishes in consecutive years in Gamepicker. When they won after I picked them to lose I would get pissed. When Nate or Marbury would pad their stats in a blowout and ruin my points I would get pissed. That is no way to root for a team.

I have been on a sports emotion decline for many years. It started in 1994 with game 5 against the rockets and getting preempted by the OJ SImpson white bronco thing. Game 7 wiped me out.

Of late, I was excited by league pass but find the quality really bad. I watched the knicks-Bucks game and really got bored.

Why am I here? The last few years of Isiah's rule has made for a historically event regarding the worst management of a pro team thru history. Never has so much been spend with so little results. THe LB fiasco and AnuchaGate are amazing events. SPrinkle Marbury's sound bites, interviews, and his sneaker line and you have a major motion picture in the making. Im a business person and have found this team and the circus around it to be just facinating. This is one for the ages.

Im not totally divorced from the team as perhaps DJ, but I have yet to renew my league pass ( I would tape games and watch them late)and doubt many games will be televised nationally on the other channels (im not in NY).

I still might see them play in charlotte once or twice this year. That might rekindle.

But if losing gets us the draft pick to get that kind of talent, then I am all for tanking the season. By that, PLAY THE YOUTHS AND LET THEM GROW DESPITE THE TEAMS RECORD! But, mind you if I had season tickets tanking a season is not very fun. Games that matter do. But if your out of the playoffs and not going anywhere, then the team needs to be purposeful in what it is trying to do. Im just glad I don't have to look at the blank stare of Isiah while Marbury scowls, nate plays on a sugar buzz, and Fat Eddy is in foul trouble again.

I find the nets rebuilding interesting, as well as other teams. I am perhaps a league fan also. Portland was as down as we have been and seem to be on the right track. Atlanta is now competitive, and Memphis looked like it got fleeced but is really young and has potential.