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nixluva
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11/10/2008  3:44 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:

I've been a supporter of some of the talent on this team and it's not just a function of odds. I blasted the coaching we've had and I've been consistent on that. I felt this team would've shown some progress already if the coaches had been less about their own selfish goals and more about teaching this team. Now if you can't see the difference then I don't know what to tell you.

Last yr I blasted Zeke and he deserved it! 2 years ago I blasted I blasted LB, why? They both didn't put the team
1st IMO. MDA has been a leader and teacher and it's been about TEAM since day one! Then whadda ya know the players have respnoded and look much better. Whether they win every night isn't the main point, it's how they play the game and the progress they show as individuals and as a team.

Good Coaching, a different core(franchise Marbs and Curry not playing), players running out of options, juice cards given to coaches, getting rid of malcontents(Francis, rose etc), new leadership Duhon etc(instead of Marbs, Zach and Curry). A lot is changing. It's not the coaching that changed, it is the culture that is changing. It's still a long haul ahead for Mike, but the united front by management in the Marbury situation is huge. It's all connected. The question of talent has never been an issue.
My point wasn't as simplistic as saying it's just X and O coaching in the gym and on the floor that makes the difference. I would agree with all of the things you said and it's a big part of the equation. My thinking is that with Isiah deciding to go against his better judgement and the will of the team, not to mention just plain solid principles, when he let Steph come back and play again after he left the team high and dry, was an example of what needed to change. Now MDA and Walsh are setting a new course and the players are doing what they should be doing, minus all the circus acts.

Curry not playing is a facet of the solid leadership and coaching i'm talking about. to me coaching isn't just the X's and O's part of it. it's the trust bulding, character building and culture building aspects as well. Neither Zeke nor LB did any of the right things in that regard. My point is that this is a much better atmosphere in which to develop a young group of players and see just what they're really about. The bad kids aren't running the school anymore and that was the biggest thing that needed to change from the get go. LB was emasculated by Zeke & Dolan and Zeke was emasculated by Dolan's ultimatums, so that neither got the support to have the "juice card" and the players knew it.


[Edited by - nixluva on 11-10-2008 3:45 PM]
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Bippity10
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11/10/2008  4:30 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:

I've been a supporter of some of the talent on this team and it's not just a function of odds. I blasted the coaching we've had and I've been consistent on that. I felt this team would've shown some progress already if the coaches had been less about their own selfish goals and more about teaching this team. Now if you can't see the difference then I don't know what to tell you.

Last yr I blasted Zeke and he deserved it! 2 years ago I blasted I blasted LB, why? They both didn't put the team
1st IMO. MDA has been a leader and teacher and it's been about TEAM since day one! Then whadda ya know the players have respnoded and look much better. Whether they win every night isn't the main point, it's how they play the game and the progress they show as individuals and as a team.

Good Coaching, a different core(franchise Marbs and Curry not playing), players running out of options, juice cards given to coaches, getting rid of malcontents(Francis, rose etc), new leadership Duhon etc(instead of Marbs, Zach and Curry). A lot is changing. It's not the coaching that changed, it is the culture that is changing. It's still a long haul ahead for Mike, but the united front by management in the Marbury situation is huge. It's all connected. The question of talent has never been an issue.
My point wasn't as simplistic as saying it's just X and O coaching in the gym and on the floor that makes the difference. I would agree with all of the things you said and it's a big part of the equation. My thinking is that with Isiah deciding to go against his better judgement and the will of the team, not to mention just plain solid principles, when he let Steph come back and play again after he left the team high and dry, was an example of what needed to change. Now MDA and Walsh are setting a new course and the players are doing what they should be doing, minus all the circus acts.

Curry not playing is a facet of the solid leadership and coaching i'm talking about. to me coaching isn't just the X's and O's part of it. it's the trust bulding, character building and culture building aspects as well. Neither Zeke nor LB did any of the right things in that regard. My point is that this is a much better atmosphere in which to develop a young group of players and see just what they're really about. The bad kids aren't running the school anymore and that was the biggest thing that needed to change from the get go. LB was emasculated by Zeke & Dolan and Zeke was emasculated by Dolan's ultimatums, so that neither got the support to have the "juice card" and the players knew it.


[Edited by - nixluva on 11-10-2008 3:45 PM]

Nix: I agree with all you said. But I don't think D'Antoni is doing anything out of the ordinary with his coaching. He banished Eddie Curry and Stephon to the bench. Lenny and LB would have loved to do things like this. But it never would have happened!! They would have been run out of town. So they were forced to half coach a bunch of guys that had more power than them. Now we are slowly getting rid of the malcontents and the rest of the group is maturing. That has led to the solid start, nothing else. It will be up to D'Antoni's coaching to be able to sustain it.

What's happening is we have a good coach that is allowed to implement his system and his rules. In the past we had good coaches, they just weren't allowed to do what they needed to do.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 10-11-2008 4:31 PM]
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nixluva
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11/10/2008  10:19 PM
No major disagreement Bip, but my point is that the players we have were better than we've seen and just needed a stable environment and solid leadership. I also think you're selling MDA short. He's a VERY good coach and the work he's doing with these players is commendable.

The reason I make a bigger deal about supporting the players is many here felt none of these players were worth keeping and that we needed to back up the bus. I never felt that way.


nyk4ever
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11/10/2008  10:26 PM
Posted by nixluva:

No major disagreement Bip, but my point is that the players we have were better than we've seen and just needed a stable environment and solid leadership. I also think you're selling MDA short. He's a VERY good coach and the work he's doing with these players is commendable.

The reason I make a bigger deal about supporting the players is many here felt none of these players were worth keeping and that we needed to back up the bus. I never felt that way.

If MDA has his way, every player on this roster sans Nate, Chandler, Lee, and Duhon would be gone. I guarantee it.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
4949
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11/10/2008  10:35 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by Elite:

I really think subtracting Marbury and Curry was huge


Does this count as the team getting better with the subtraction of Dinglebury?

I agree that has something to do with it, but I also think it's other factors also. Like the new and improved D'Antoni system.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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11/10/2008  10:44 PM
I would like to point something out to you guys and you might be surprised. Now because we don't have many games in just yet, if I may, I will use the preseason also to make this point.

Remember my post were I made the point that the Knicks only scored 100 or more points in a game 32 times last year and that their record was 13-19 under that figure?

Well' in 12 games so far, they have scored over 100 pts. '9 times for a record of 6-3'. Beating a total of 5 playoff type teams.

If they aren't for real, then you know that they are at least improved.

And it would be right about now that Marbury would turn into Dr. selfish & Mr. self centered to disrupt the whole positive mode. So I do think it makes a big difference he's a non factor. It's being proven right now before our very eyes, as well as dolans.

[Edited by - 4949 on 11-10-2008 10:54 PM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
nixluva
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11/10/2008  11:53 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:

No major disagreement Bip, but my point is that the players we have were better than we've seen and just needed a stable environment and solid leadership. I also think you're selling MDA short. He's a VERY good coach and the work he's doing with these players is commendable.

The reason I make a bigger deal about supporting the players is many here felt none of these players were worth keeping and that we needed to back up the bus. I never felt that way. I don't make any claim that every single player on this team should be kept! Obviously we need to improve the roster in order to turn this team into a title contender but we need to see how the players do after entire season under MDA. So far guys that got bashed and ripped around here are stepping up and playing better and we've got a ton of BB to play.

We're seeing passing, motion, defensive hustle and teamwork from this team and that should make all of us glad, if not optimistic about the young talent on this team the changing of the culture for the better.

If MDA has his way, every player on this roster sans Nate, Chandler, Lee, and Duhon would be gone. I guarantee it.

TMS
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11/10/2008  11:54 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:

No major disagreement Bip, but my point is that the players we have were better than we've seen and just needed a stable environment and solid leadership. I also think you're selling MDA short. He's a VERY good coach and the work he's doing with these players is commendable.

The reason I make a bigger deal about supporting the players is many here felt none of these players were worth keeping and that we needed to back up the bus. I never felt that way.

If MDA has his way, every player on this roster sans Nate, Chandler, Lee, and Duhon would be gone. I guarantee it.

i still don't think there are any untouchables on this roster, & that includes Wilson Chandler... i like how they're playing so far tho, it's a much improved experience to watch than last year at least.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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11/11/2008  6:20 AM
Posted by nixluva:

No major disagreement Bip, but my point is that the players we have were better than we've seen and just needed a stable environment and solid leadership. I also think you're selling MDA short. He's a VERY good coach and the work he's doing with these players is commendable.

The reason I make a bigger deal about supporting the players is many here felt none of these players were worth keeping and that we needed to back up the bus. I never felt that way.

Nix: I give him a lot of credit but I look at things differently. While most of us sat back and waited for the perfect coach to come in and turn us into winners I knew it was different. It's not the perfect coach. It's the perfect culture. It's not amazing to me that you take Steph and Curry out of the rotation and then you see the team play with an uplifted spirit. The simple fact that we have a GM and Coach that have all the power instead of STephon Marbury. D'Antoni has ridiculed, insulted, banished and done all these things in the media. And yet the players are responding. They are responding because of the situation. Duhon is now a leader instead of Marbs. Duhon has made more big plays in the 4th quarter this year than Marbs has made in his entire Knick career.

D'Antoni is doing nothing special. If he did these same things under Isiah this place would already be in mutiny and our season would be sabotaged. It's all about the culture being established. The same thing Bip talked about for years.
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NYK3
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11/12/2008  9:26 AM
the title of this thread should be changed to 4-4 cause thats what we'll be after tonight
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!!!
TMS
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11/12/2008  2:58 PM
Posted by NYK3:

the title of this thread should be changed to 4-4 cause thats what we'll be after tonight

we should be seeing lots of "blow up this team, they stink" posts any day now.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Marv
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11/12/2008  3:07 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by NYK3:

the title of this thread should be changed to 4-4 cause thats what we'll be after tonight

we should be seeing lots of "blow up this team, they stink" posts any day now.

pipe down hatters. we're winning this game.
NYK3
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11/12/2008  9:58 PM
Posted by NYK3:

the title of this thread should be changed to 4-4 cause thats what we'll be after tonight

man it feels GREAT to be wrong
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!!!
TMS
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11/12/2008  9:59 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by NYK3:

the title of this thread should be changed to 4-4 cause thats what we'll be after tonight

we should be seeing lots of "blow up this team, they stink" posts any day now.

pipe down hatters. we're winning this game.
i changed my mind... this team is poised now to make a run at the NBA title this year... the corner has been turned, i can feel it.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
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11/12/2008  10:00 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by NYK3:

the title of this thread should be changed to 4-4 cause thats what we'll be after tonight

we should be seeing lots of "blow up this team, they stink" posts any day now.

pipe down hatters. we're winning this game.
i changed my mind... this team is poised now to make a run at the NBA title this year... the corner has been turned, i can feel it.

CHAMPIONSHIP OR BUST!!!!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
4-2......

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