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Dose of Reality: 2010 is a myth- this franchis is FIVE years away from being put on the right path
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JrZyHuStLa
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11/4/2008  9:04 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Who cares about Tim Duncan? He's a once-in-a-lifetime talent. If that's we're pinning our hopes on that, then there's going to be a lot of heartache around here for a long, long time.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 11-04-2008 11:42 AM]

no- Duncan, MJ, LeBron, KG are franchise type talents that come along every draft- its an issue of being in a position to be able to draft them.

No they don't.

Maybe closer to every other year.

I'll take my chances on any of these players:

2008 Rose & Beasley
2007 Oden & Durant
2006 No One
2005 Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Bynum, Channing Frye
2004 Dwight Howard
2003 Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Anthony

Now- maybe they aren't MJ type players- they don't need to be, but the fact is, when you have one of these players, you often have one of the best players on the court most games, and you have something to build around.

I'd rather have the top pick in 2009 than the cap room to sign lebron.

Its just too early in these guys' careers for this. It all comes down to winning. Jordan, Bird, Kobe, KG are greats not only because of their individual talents, but because of their drive and fortune pertaining to championships.

If Chris Paul can win 3 championships, he's be the greatest PG to ever play the game in my opinion. If Dwight Howard can win a few, he'd be way better than Karl Malone, regardless of his rank on the all time scoring list. It just comes down to chamionships.

[Edited by - jrzyhustla on 11-04-2008 9:05 PM]
AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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11/4/2008  9:30 PM
We can't assume that this team is gonna be exactly the same 2 years from now. Down the road we'll see things change around here as Steph & Malik move out, the kids we have continue to develop and the press calms down once the problem child is gone.

We may be a totally different team by 2010 and my prediction is that MDA will have had a positive impact on this team by that time. Walsh will also have had a several key trading periods by then, so it's highly unlikely things will look anything like they do now. Lebron as well as the other players of that FA class are very much in play.
TMS
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11/4/2008  9:58 PM
Posted by nysportsfan11:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nysportsfan11:

Both Detroit and Cleveland will have enough space to sign 2 top free agents

DET will not have the cap space to sign 2 top free agents... if they're lucky enough to land a max guy like Lebron they won't have enough left over to land another bigname when u include the extension Rip Hamilton just signed along w/Tayshaun Prince's $11 million & the other guys who will have to round out the rest of the roster... Lebron ain't winnning no multiple championships w/Rip, Tayshaun & no frontcourt whatsoever, i don't care how much of a reputation Joe Dumars has... it's not like Donnie Walsh has no cred when it comes to making deals either.

I didn't include Prince in Detroit's longterm plans...and with good reason.

doesn't matter cuz he's on the payroll for 2010... so if they end up trading him they're still gonna have to take back equal salary in all likelihood... so where is all this cap space ur talking about that they're gonna have to sign up 2 bigname FA's? they have to fill out the rest of the roster somehow, don't they? unless u think a buncha veteran minimum contracts to round out the roster are gonna cut it?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
franco12
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11/5/2008  7:56 AM
Posted by nixluva:

We can't assume that this team is gonna be exactly the same 2 years from now. Down the road we'll see things change around here as Steph & Malik move out, the kids we have continue to develop and the press calms down once the problem child is gone.

We may be a totally different team by 2010 and my prediction is that MDA will have had a positive impact on this team by that time. Walsh will also have had a several key trading periods by then, so it's highly unlikely things will look anything like they do now. Lebron as well as the other players of that FA class are very much in play.

What exactly is likely to change in the next two years?

Zach, see my sig, ain't going anywhere.

If we are lucky, Crawford and Curry opt out and leave.

We add a 2009 draft pick.

We may or may not resign and keep Nate & Lee.

Chandler might become a decent player.

JJ2 will still be here as will Q.

This is our likely roster in 2010-11:

Zach
Curry
Crawford
JJ2
Gallo
Chandler
Collins

Lee & Nate?

And the above group, without Lee & Nate, are $45mm in salary. What star free agent is going to want to come here with this garbage? These same losers have proved the last 2 years that they are losers. Nothing is changing with this group.
TMS
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11/5/2008  9:13 AM
if we finish this year w/the crappy record most of us project them to finish with, we're gonna be adding a very talented young player to that roster too... & if D Lee is off the roster then it's likely that you can get an extra pick for him in any trade u make, which adds another young asset to add to the equation... & btw Q will be off the roster by 2010.

bigname FA signing (Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Dirk, Joe Johnson, etc.)
Knicks' lottery pick (Derozan, Mullens, Jennings, Rubio, Griffin, Thabeet, etc.)
1st rd. pick from D Lee trade (Patterson, Budinger, Calathes, etc.)
MLE free agent signing
Zach
Chandler
Gallo
Crawford
Curry
JJ2
Collins

u don't honestly don't see that group as being able to make some noise in the Eastern Conference? these losers were also subject to the constant off the court drama & distractions of multiple head coaches fighting w/the star player & a self absorbed GM who was just as much of a distraction himself.

we now have a proven GM w/a track record of success as well as a head coach who's widely known among NBA players to be a great coach to play for... remove the biggest distractions, add a couple young talented players, toss in some cap space & add a bigname FA along w/a solid role playing MLE player & u suddenly have a very competitive team w/a real future to grow into a championship contender... & even if 1 of the elite FA's don't end up coming here, there are still other names that will be available in 2010 that can help this team going forward... not to mention that year all of Curry, Crawford, Zach & JJ2's contracts will be expiring deals so u gotta believe something can be done w/at least 1 of those guys to trade for another player who can help this franchise.

i seriously don't see how people just overlook all these things when we talk about the 2010 issue... it's not nearly as cut & dry a hopeless situation as a lot of you make it out to be... the point is if u just stand pat & do nothing & let D Lee & Nate walk w/o getting back any draft picks in return, then yeah, the scenario u outlined above is pretty much what we'll be stuck with... that's why it's absolutely imperative that we trade those guys now & get back some picks while we still can & they still have trade value around the league... the more you wait the less value they have, because teams will be more reluctant to take on an expiring deal for just half a season unless we're talking about a true impact level player, which neither of them are at this point.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
mattshaw78
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11/5/2008  12:32 PM
I was watching PTI on espn and they were mention about how Marbury is handled on the team. I have to agree with Wilpon, if the knicks franchise is the type where money is no object, trade him and pay his salary. If we can just pay and cut them and/or trade for practically nothing we can get to the magical 2010 projection. The problem is I don't know out of all those that are available in 2010 who wants to go to the knicks.
BlueSeats "I like anyone who can make Lebron cry. Melo seems to do it a lot."
franco12
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11/5/2008  12:49 PM
Posted by TMS:

if we finish this year w/the crappy record most of us project them to finish with, we're gonna be adding a very talented young player to that roster too... & if D Lee is off the roster then it's likely that you can get an extra pick for him in any trade u make, which adds another young asset to add to the equation... & btw Q will be off the roster by 2010.

bigname FA signing (Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Dirk, Joe Johnson, etc.)
Knicks' lottery pick (Derozan, Mullens, Jennings, Rubio, Griffin, Thabeet, etc.)
1st rd. pick from D Lee trade (Patterson, Budinger, Calathes, etc.)
MLE free agent signing
Zach
Chandler
Gallo
Crawford
Curry
JJ2
Collins

u don't honestly don't see that group as being able to make some noise in the Eastern Conference? these losers were also subject to the constant off the court drama & distractions of multiple head coaches fighting w/the star player & a self absorbed GM who was just as much of a distraction himself.

we now have a proven GM w/a track record of success as well as a head coach who's widely known among NBA players to be a great coach to play for... remove the biggest distractions, add a couple young talented players, toss in some cap space & add a bigname FA along w/a solid role playing MLE player & u suddenly have a very competitive team w/a real future to grow into a championship contender... & even if 1 of the elite FA's don't end up coming here, there are still other names that will be available in 2010 that can help this team going forward... not to mention that year all of Curry, Crawford, Zach & JJ2's contracts will be expiring deals so u gotta believe something can be done w/at least 1 of those guys to trade for another player who can help this franchise.

i seriously don't see how people just overlook all these things when we talk about the 2010 issue... it's not nearly as cut & dry a hopeless situation as a lot of you make it out to be... the point is if u just stand pat & do nothing & let D Lee & Nate walk w/o getting back any draft picks in return, then yeah, the scenario u outlined above is pretty much what we'll be stuck with... that's why it's absolutely imperative that we trade those guys now & get back some picks while we still can & they still have trade value around the league... the more you wait the less value they have, because teams will be more reluctant to take on an expiring deal for just half a season unless we're talking about a true impact level player, which neither of them are at this point.

Actually, most people on this site have them winning in the 30 range, which doesn't get us a great draft pick- probably 10 or worse.

So, we add another marginal talent to this team. Great. Too bad you can only play five at once, and our five are always worse than the other five we face.
Anji
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11/5/2008  1:10 PM
I personally think that if the knicks want this 2010 thing to work their only goals should be to trade Zach and Lee/JJ2 to bring back a pick or something with a low cap number.


Because basically if that happens, the knicks would go into that offseason with:
09 rookies
Danillo
Chandler
about 15-23 million cap space
about 20-23 million dollars in expirings

Basically you can sign 2 players and trade for another talented player who is at the en of his deal or unwanted. Basically have a solid core of 8-9 players.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
SlimPack
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11/5/2008  1:16 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Fuck Lebron. Build through the draft and find the new Lebron. If I was the Knicks I would be stocking up so many first rounders right now.

if we dump contracts now & amass some picks we can achieve both ends... or at least make a sincere attempt at getting there... doing nothing accomplishes exactly that... nothing.

I don't see how we can achieve both ends. how can we dump contracts AND amass assets? we'll have to trade assets to dump contracts. I don't really agree with the 2010 plan either. I just think it's a bad idea to rush the rebuilding process to be under the cap a particular year.
TMS
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11/5/2008  5:23 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by TMS:

if we finish this year w/the crappy record most of us project them to finish with, we're gonna be adding a very talented young player to that roster too... & if D Lee is off the roster then it's likely that you can get an extra pick for him in any trade u make, which adds another young asset to add to the equation... & btw Q will be off the roster by 2010.

bigname FA signing (Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Dirk, Joe Johnson, etc.)
Knicks' lottery pick (Derozan, Mullens, Jennings, Rubio, Griffin, Thabeet, etc.)
1st rd. pick from D Lee trade (Patterson, Budinger, Calathes, etc.)
MLE free agent signing
Zach
Chandler
Gallo
Crawford
Curry
JJ2
Collins

u don't honestly don't see that group as being able to make some noise in the Eastern Conference? these losers were also subject to the constant off the court drama & distractions of multiple head coaches fighting w/the star player & a self absorbed GM who was just as much of a distraction himself.

we now have a proven GM w/a track record of success as well as a head coach who's widely known among NBA players to be a great coach to play for... remove the biggest distractions, add a couple young talented players, toss in some cap space & add a bigname FA along w/a solid role playing MLE player & u suddenly have a very competitive team w/a real future to grow into a championship contender... & even if 1 of the elite FA's don't end up coming here, there are still other names that will be available in 2010 that can help this team going forward... not to mention that year all of Curry, Crawford, Zach & JJ2's contracts will be expiring deals so u gotta believe something can be done w/at least 1 of those guys to trade for another player who can help this franchise.

i seriously don't see how people just overlook all these things when we talk about the 2010 issue... it's not nearly as cut & dry a hopeless situation as a lot of you make it out to be... the point is if u just stand pat & do nothing & let D Lee & Nate walk w/o getting back any draft picks in return, then yeah, the scenario u outlined above is pretty much what we'll be stuck with... that's why it's absolutely imperative that we trade those guys now & get back some picks while we still can & they still have trade value around the league... the more you wait the less value they have, because teams will be more reluctant to take on an expiring deal for just half a season unless we're talking about a true impact level player, which neither of them are at this point.

Actually, most people on this site have them winning in the 30 range, which doesn't get us a great draft pick- probably 10 or worse.

So, we add another marginal talent to this team. Great. Too bad you can only play five at once, and our five are always worse than the other five we face.

what are u saying, anyone picked after #10 in the draft is a marginal talent? come on dude, there's great players taken after #10 just about every year of every draft.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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11/5/2008  5:26 PM
Posted by Anji:

I personally think that if the knicks want this 2010 thing to work their only goals should be to trade Zach and Lee/JJ2 to bring back a pick or something with a low cap number.


Because basically if that happens, the knicks would go into that offseason with:
09 rookies
Danillo
Chandler
about 15-23 million cap space
about 20-23 million dollars in expirings

Basically you can sign 2 players and trade for another talented player who is at the en of his deal or unwanted. Basically have a solid core of 8-9 players.

that's exactly what i'm saying bro... it's entirely feasible to get back at least 1 draft pick while dumping 1 of our bad contracts... an offer of Jamal or Zach along w/D Lee & Nate should easily net us at least 1 good draft pick & a contract that expires after next season.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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Dose of Reality: 2010 is a myth- this franchis is FIVE years away from being put on the right path
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