Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by Anji:

What happened against Boston then??? Lee might be hurt, but it doesn't change the fact he was getting his shot stuffed in his face for the last two games, I don't see what Crawford has to do with that.

Again I ask what happened against Boston. Jamal mess that game up for everybody but Nate I guess??? LOL, you need to watch your own down load buddy. JC wasnt chucking and the team was sleep walking in the second and third quarters.

[Edited by - Anji on 10-26-2008 2:24 PM]

Against Boston I thought it was quite clear: A shuffled lineup backfired and the Celtics made a point to play as hard as they could. The unfortunate part of that it shows how fragile this roster is where a lineup change and a team playing tough has them all tucking their tail between their legs and running.

Oh, no need to get nasty with this: "LOL, you need to watch your own down load buddy." It just shows you have nothing to debate in the face of the facts and truth. I'll debate hoops with anyone but if you're going to be a jerk then you can talk to static.

The bottom line is this team played better when everyone was equally involved. The moment Jamal decided to go AND1 on everyone the team fell apart. It's quite obvious that things won't work out whenever he decides to do that. He's no star. He can't carry a team to victory. Never could. Never will.

He either needs to be a role player: A 5-8 FGA a game role player or we need to trade him so he can become someone else's frustrating headache of "He has all this talent but just plain sucks!!!!".

Who's getting nasty, I hardly think saying go watch the game again is an insult........ but maybe we are from different countries???

I'll say it though, you have the downloads, what facts are you talking about? I really think you need to watch it again, because clearly the problem in our last game was the over passing and unassertive play of pretty much the whole team ....... so you are clearly talking out your backside about this "AND1 play broke up the even team play".

What happened against Boston is all I have to say to your claim really. Instead of nate dropping 25 and three people in double figures, Jamal dropped 30 and 5 people had double figures...... LOL, you take into account the teams they played and you know what happened, the team looked exactly the same. One hot player and whole lot of passing leading to nothing.

Posted by Anji:




Who's getting nasty, I hardly think saying go watch the game again is an insult........ but maybe we are from different countries???

I'll say it though, you have the downloads, what facts are you talking about? I really think you need to watch it again, because clearly the problem in our last game was the over passing and unassertive play of pretty much the whole team ....... so you are clearly talking out your backside about this "AND1 play broke up the even team play".

What happened against Boston is all I have to say to your claim really. Instead of nate dropping 25 and three people in double figures, Jamal dropped 30 and 5 people had double figures...... LOL, you take into account the teams they played and you know what happened, the team looked exactly the same. One hot player and whole lot of passing leading to nothing.

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by 4949:


This is great! I'm pulling out the popcorn.

Meh, don't bother, I don't do I-Net wars.

Posted by GKFv2:


I thought you would've known that this how Anji conducts business by now.

Nah, didn't know, I figured that was just a RGM fixture: You know, if you don't agree Crawful is a superstar and we're just a few bad ref calls away from 70 wins, you're up to be flamed, vilified to the most personal levels imaginable, have your posts deleted, etc.



So be it, whatever, the facts speak for themselves on the career of Crawful.

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by Anji:




Who's getting nasty, I hardly think saying go watch the game again is an insult........ but maybe we are from different countries???

I'll say it though, you have the downloads, what facts are you talking about? I really think you need to watch it again, because clearly the problem in our last game was the over passing and unassertive play of pretty much the whole team ....... so you are clearly talking out your backside about this "AND1 play broke up the even team play".

What happened against Boston is all I have to say to your claim really. Instead of nate dropping 25 and three people in double figures, Jamal dropped 30 and 5 people had double figures...... LOL, you take into account the teams they played and you know what happened, the team looked exactly the same. One hot player and whole lot of passing leading to nothing.

Telling someone to watch a game again is obnoxious so piss off.

What happened against Boston? I clarified, you ignored, and went on insulting again.

Have fun talking to yourself I don't play these kinda games with anyone.

I'm happy you agree that when one player goes off the rest can't get going so at least we agree there, Crawful is a ballhogging bum.

Have a good day.

I'm just saying, I had this same argument with a friend and I told him to watch the game again. Your down load changed his mind. Now I know you are talking more about past seasons then this one preseason game.

But we sat here and counted all the passes and who touched the ball, and who dribbled and who drove to the basket.... ect. All I got to say is watch the game again, because what you said has nothing to do with Lee getting dominated physically on offense and Zach pretty much taking it easy in the last preseason game of the season.



And Greek I see people basically call you a prick and jerk on here at lease 2 times a week and I still don't brother you because...... I know it's true. Your one liners don't effect me anymore.

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by tkf:


come on cosmic be fair. No one on realgm argues that crawford is a star, and mods just don't delete post. I think what happens are the off the wall, jamal is the worst player in the league, or the knicks would be 20 games better without jamal, is what gets contested. And the odd thing is, the jamal detractors are the one's who stick by the somewhat ridiculous comments that he is the worst player in the NBA, or that the knicks would be 20 games better if we just cut jamal, and seem to get upset when someone throws in a little reason and dissagrees. There isn't anyone over at Realgm that thinks crawford is a star,just that he is a pretty decent player, but there are many who think that he is the reason the knicks are bad. Tell me, which one do you think is the extreme here?

Well, after 7 or 8 losing seasons it's tough to be objective you know that TKF.

I like Crawford as a person, he's got a nice family behind him, he's a good kid, and he has a world of talent.

Yet, he just doesn't produce.

I think the reason why observations of Jamal are so black and white are this:

He needs the ball to be effective, he needs to be in control, he needs to carry the team on his shoulders to get into his groove.

He's largely ineffective as a bench player or a role player. The problem is, when he is given the reigns to control a team, he's just too inefficient to win frequently.

I think he actually did well this preseason when he was only scoring ~10ppg. I think if given time he could fit in as a role player. I don't think he can help us in any other way.

If he can't get it going as a role player then he serves no real use to us and should be moved.

The team likes him so he will indeed get a chance to prove he can fit in. It'd be nice if he came around but I just don't expect it. He needs to control the ball and he needs to do his bag of dribbling tricks before he shoots - that's how he gets his rythm - and that style of play doesn't fit well with DAntoni's style of lightning fast strikes.


You may wonder why I'm so hard on him and I'll tell you why: The world of talent he obviously has....and the fact it's rare he ever maximizes it...and the only times he really does is when he just so happens to be shooting unconsciously.

I just don't think he fits. I consider him one of the most frustrating players on the team given the talent he possesses so that combined with the fact he tries to take over games - and more often than not is highly ineffective (poor shooting) he becomes a focus point for whats wrong/right with the team.

you have valid reasons with jamal, and I am not saying I dissagree. I think jamal is what he is. A gifted player with some glaring flaws, which in turn make him a pretty decent player who can be very good. The problem is as you stated, jamals flaws negate his strengths and because of that many of us doubt he will reach his potential.

I just have a problem( and I am not accusing you at all) when many people place the failures of the knicks on his shoulders, and you see more of that going on, than people referring to him as a star.

Again, I see your point, and I think eventually that will be his biggest problem under D'antoni's system. Jamal needs the ball in his hands, and this system preaches ball movement...

Posted by oohah:

Posted by Anji:




Jamal Crawford is a good player. Not great or bad. Number 3 man on a team if you were to build one is what he is.

I don't think too many knicks will be here in the future outside of 2 or 3, but if Jamal plays great for Mike D I don't see why he will be gone unless it's for a player like Joe Johnson or Wade. If he plays great, there is no reason to move because he is an asset to the team no doubt. He's gone head to head with the superstars in the game and he has won his fair share of battles. I think if he matched up every night against other teams 2nd or 3rd best players he would dominate that match up.

I think you are overrating him. No, Crawford is not a bad player per se, but he isn't a player that makes a winner. He can add to a winning team. But I don't see him as a #3 player on a good team. Look at the pretty good teams around the league: Lakers, Utah, San Antonio, New Orleans, Portland, Houston, Boston, Detroit, etc. and on all of those teams the #3 player is much better than Crawford and on most of them the #4 player is visibly better too.

I think Crawford is bench fireworks. On the nights he is a dud you can just let him sit.

oohah

I think we can agree to disagree.

I think JC is as good as a couple of those teams number 3 players and he scores well enough to be a starter.

Posted by Anji:


I'm just saying, I had this same argument with a friend and I told him to watch the game again. Your down load changed his mind. Now I know you are talking more about past seasons then this one preseason game.

But we sat here and counted all the passes and who touched the ball, and who dribbled and who drove to the basket.... ect. All I got to say is watch the game again, because what you said has nothing to do with Lee getting dominated physically on offense and Zach pretty much taking it easy in the last preseason game of the season.

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by Anji:


I'm just saying, I had this same argument with a friend and I told him to watch the game again. Your down load changed his mind. Now I know you are talking more about past seasons then this one preseason game.

But we sat here and counted all the passes and who touched the ball, and who dribbled and who drove to the basket.... ect. All I got to say is watch the game again, because what you said has nothing to do with Lee getting dominated physically on offense and Zach pretty much taking it easy in the last preseason game of the season.

Anji, I'm not trying to be a prick, but I definitely disagree with you.

As to this past game it's status quo for Jamal. A handful of atrocious games then suddenly he goes unconscious on us. The problem being is when he's hot he's dominating the offense and others just stand and watch and that never seems to work out to our advantage.

As to Lee and Zach they both have their flaws but there were several games where both were doing very well - and at the same time Jamal had "role player" stats, and I think that is the best way to go for this present roster.

I think it's telling that when Jamal is on fire and controlling the offense - and we lose a game - and no other player really did well that it's a bad formula ------ and it's seemingly backed up by games where several players have great games combined with a win where Jamal was a role player.

Whenever you have a player who is only effective as a dominating force --- he damn well better be a Jordan or Duncan (or whoever) otherwise you're going to lose and this has been proven time and again.

I think I summed up why I feel that way in the other posts in this forum.


As to the games in whole: The Celtics and Nets played tough defense against us and got us completely out of our run and gun game. Once relegated to the half court they were the same clueless Knicks playing hot potato resulting in a last second chuck. That's on everyone.

We can agree on that last part and lets see what comes to be during the season.................