True... very true indeed.

Let's say that LayDown's "new" direction fails too... Who could you see filling the GM position next?

Laydog is good for at least two more years.

It is hard to evaluate his performance because we don't know what the objectives have been. Perpetuate revenue? I think that has dominated managements thinking. In the boom years, keeping ones stock up (cablevision) was ultra priority. Making the playoffs and filling the house (of cards) was important to keep revenue (tv ratings and advertising rates up. Thus getting a dice to market with a veteren team would have accomplished that. With the stock down at reasonable levels as reality has set in, revenue expectations are lower, and the reality is this team has run out of gas. I think this is what is happening in the garden and thus the rebuilding should be the next logical step. It is a business whether we like it or not and fans usually care less about anything but winning. You don't have to like it (reality), but ya gotta understand it.

That is why I don't think Laydog is a complete moron. As I said, Falk screwed him big time, and the plan did not work as it was intended. Failure is a great teacher and Laydog got schooled. Laydog is considered a bright and likeable person in many circles. The press quoting other GMs make him look stupid on some issues. I think the press, looking to demonize everything, uses Laydog as the knicks face of failure. I like the underdog and looking at it as a buisness, I understand the concept of how it works, how it might have failed, and root for a likable person to turn around the program, undo some bad moves, and find glory in construction of HIS team as opposed to trying to fix up checketts/grunfelds teams.

If in 2 years the rooks were a bust, then fire him. I don't know whom might be ready to fill that role or want to at that time.

I believe we are on the right path, and support the youth movement.

Given our rate of decline during LayDown's tenure, it scares me to think of what he'd do with 2 more years. Lord help us...

Your extropolating the past into the future. Never buy stocks based on that. Do you not see a change in philosphy? A pipeline of youth?

His objectives? Hmm... I honestly believe that he knows what they are. LOL It isn't too far-fetched to say that winning titles would help in all the areas you mentioned. Unfortunately, he seems to be taking the team in th eopposite direction.

How is that? They are keeping picks, drafting good players, developing youth and have a point stud in the wings. 12 months ago this was not true. Can't run a team like a fantasy league. It takes time.

Regarding the David Falk issue, he can only be blamed for the Ewing deal drama. Falk had nothing to do with LayDown's multitude of other blunders. All the press did was report it. LayDown provided all the ammo that the press and a significant cross-section of the NYK fanbase fire at him. He contributed more to making himself the face of failure (I like that description for him, LOL) than all other factors combined.

I said he got screwed, which is his fault. The other blunders were the support role players to a team that did not materialize. That is Laydogs failure, but is it the man or his actions that failed at that time? Demonizing his charactor for a failed plan to perpetuate a bad plan is for the fans and media to create. If you fire him based on that, then perhaps the long term is ignored. If you take a step back, the team and philosphy is changing, which might be part of a long term plan. Laydog signed a 10 year deal. The team is not public domain, so they don't have to tell us a thing, but that would signal that do have a long range plan. That might have included keeping that bloated team together and then rebuild.

I laid out yesterday a scenario that business does figure into the decisions. Of course winning is everything to the fan, and you are one, but there are other considerations you have to look at.

If your as hardcore as you say, then think strategically, not emotionally when making decisions.

Support the youth movement!

Your extropolating the past into the future. Never buy stocks based on that. Do you not see a change in philosphy? A pipeline of youth?

Well this isn't the NY Stock exchange, it's the NY Knicks and this guy LayDown has a job. When someone doesn't produce on the job and it damages the profits and/or prestige of the company, they either get chopped or, as is the case with high-level execs, are allowed to save face and resign. OK, he finally did something right in this past draft (and the Williams pickup from '02 may still pan out), but that by no means make him some kind of brilliant genius (as I have had to bring to the attention to some who actually believed that in this forum).

How is that? They are keeping picks, drafting good players, developing youth and have a point stud in the wings. 12 months ago this was not true. Can't run a team like a fantasy league. It takes time.

It's quite simple. Putting a winning product on the floor will put more butts in the seats. Winning will help the NYK gain media exposure, not lose it like what's happening now. We get fewer nationally televised games now than any time in the recent past. The media beat coverage will be more positive when the press can see the team going in a positive direction. You are right about not running a team like a fantasy league, which is what this joker seems to be trying to do. Look at the moves he's made. You can't just disregard the mess he's made and wipe the slate clean because he made a good move or two. He's been more consistent with bad moves than good ones.

I said he got screwed, which is his fault. The other blunders were the support role players to a team that did not materialize. That is Laydogs failure, but is it the man or his actions that failed at that time?

The man is to be held accountable for his actions. There's no choice there. His actions failed, so the man is held responsible.

Demonizing his charactor for a failed plan to perpetuate a bad plan is for the fans and media to create. If you fire him based on that, then perhaps the long term is ignored.

LayDown demonized himself. The media and fans reacted to the dumb moves in a predictably negative way. He should be fired because of his own inept decisionmaking. What he did to the team by making those bad moves only hindered our progress long-term.

If you take a step back, the team and philosphy is changing, which might be part of a long term plan. Laydog signed a 10 year deal. The team is not public domain, so they don't have to tell us a thing, but that would signal that do have a long range plan. That might have included keeping that bloated team together and then rebuild.

They don't have to hold a press conference to say what they are doing. If the results are not showing at least potential improvement, especially when you are dealing with someone who has a track record of mostly detrimental moves, then you can't realisitcally expect the media, fans or anyone else to have confidence in management or their moves whether short or long term. I for one do not trust them or their plans, and many view the situation in the same light for the same reasons. With that said, the worst deal management made wasn't Houston's contract, but LayDown's.

I laid out yesterday a scenario that business does figure into the decisions. Of course winning is everything to the fan, and you are one, but there are other considerations you have to look at.

...and I, in turn stated how winning does help on the business end. The real problem is that winning doesn't mean enough to management.

If your as hardcore as you say, then think strategically, not emotionally when making decisions.

I am definitely as hardcore as I say I am, and I also remember the Golden rule of Stategy 101: Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I don't regard that as emotion, but logic.

If you don't acknowledge the past, you can't comprehend the present or prepare for the future. LayDown has gotta go.

LOL

True, we do agree on like 90% and can agree to disagree on the last 10%. I enjoyed the discussion though. I can respect your opinions (even those I disagreed with) because you backed them up and stood by your words without taking the fickle, fence-rider way out.

If Dyess and the draft picks all produce, maybe LayDown can undo some of the damage he's done (even though IMO he screwed up with that KVH trade).

You made a good point about us not seeing the results of those deals for a few years, but yet in still, this year will show us alot when it comes to the potential to help or hurt the team.