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Thinking out loud: How bout Josh howard for Eddy Curry
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oohah
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9/22/2008  6:05 PM
Posted by PresIke:

oohah, there are actually multiple definitions of racism in use, which leads to a significant problem with such conversation. Effectively, we don't even share a common language to discuss the topic, and everyone believes themselves to be an expert on the subject (often those who by some definitions cannot even be a victim of it).

The idea that one can create their own definition of the term so easily indicates the reality of this problem even more so, I think.


You make a good point. Semantics are always at play with these terms. Here are my understandings of the terms racist and prejudice:

Racism: The act of doing harm to a person/people of a different race because you view them as inferior or hate them./ E.G. "keeping them down".

Prejudice: To believe that people of a different race is inferior, etc. That could also be expressed as a "racist view".

Like John Rocker. Now there is a prejudiced person for you.

oohah


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Bonn1997
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9/22/2008  6:10 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

When the man says "I'm BLACK I don't celebrate that ****."

That's when it becomes racist. He's saying BLACK people don't celebrate THAT SHIT.

That SHIT = our country and the freedom our predecessors and current young and women fight for.

If BLACK people don't celebrate that, or shouldn't celebrate that, then he brings RACE into it, not me, he does.

To me, that means, WHITE people celebrate that SHIT, not Josh Howard, cause, Josh Howard is BLACK.

If you can't make the distinction, I can't help you on that, but that's what I and quite a few other people get out of it.




If he wants to be unpatriotic that's fine even if I don't condone that for he disrespects those that enabled him to play a childs game for millions of dollars.

However, he never said "I dont celebrate that ****."

He said "IM BLACK I dont celebrate that ****."

Meaning, BLACKS dont celebrate that ****.

Wanna know something? There's plenty of BLACK people that are angry over his comments as well for being RACIST and UNPATRIOTIC.


He said it, not I, don't try to cover it up on his behalf, he couldn't give a rats ass any of you breathe. That you can count on.

And, in case you missed it, one last time.

"I'm BLACK I dont celebrate that ****."
I don't if you're directing that at me but I wasn't even aware of his quote. I personally don't care about his personal views unless they negatively impact the team.
Ira
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9/22/2008  6:15 PM
I have no problem with Howard's smoking pot, but I do have a problem with the attitude he showed to his coach and his team. People have said that Zach Randolph's a cancer. I don't agree with that. But I suspect Josh Howard is.
TMS
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9/22/2008  6:21 PM
what was his negative attitude towards his team & coach?
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TMS
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9/22/2008  6:33 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by PresIke:

oohah, there are actually multiple definitions of racism in use, which leads to a significant problem with such conversation. Effectively, we don't even share a common language to discuss the topic, and everyone believes themselves to be an expert on the subject (often those who by some definitions cannot even be a victim of it).

The idea that one can create their own definition of the term so easily indicates the reality of this problem even more so, I think.


You make a good point. Semantics are always at play with these terms. Here are my understandings of the terms racist and prejudice:

Racism: The act of doing harm to a person/people of a different race because you view them as inferior or hate them./ E.G. "keeping them down".

Prejudice: To believe that people of a different race is inferior, etc. That could also be expressed as a "racist view".

Like John Rocker. Now there is a prejudiced person for you.

oohah

to me racism encompasses actions & feelings of malice & hatred aimed at certain races & ethnic groups... prejudism is assuming certain things about certain classes or races of people but not necessarily w/malicious intent, for instance saying things like Jews are cheap, or that Asians can't drive, or Black people love watermelon, etc.... these types of racial stereotypes are just bred from ignorance, but it doesn't mean the people who proliferate these ideas are racists... comedians pick on these stereotypes & make them a joke because in some cases they may even be true... it doesn't make them racists.
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BasketballJones
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9/22/2008  7:13 PM
Well, I'd love to have Josh Howard, and I don't care about the pot or the flag thing, but I agree with Bip that the Knicks don't need the controversy right now.

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franco12
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9/22/2008  9:41 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Well, I'd love to have Josh Howard, and I don't care about the pot or the flag thing, but I agree with Bip that the Knicks don't need the controversy right now.

NY will get over Howard's Controversy. Keeping Curry is asking for trouble- I still don't see how he & Zach & Lee co exist.

So, what is better? A little bit of controversy at the start of camp, or the long drawn out Zach watch, and the constant what isn't Lee getting minutes or Curry is upset not playing and his value plummets?

We're not saying trade Lee & Chandler for Howard.

Curry and Zach don't fit together. Move one to clear the glut of fat post players who can't block a shot if a gun was held to their head.
Allanfan20
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9/22/2008  11:17 PM
NY will get over Howard's Controversy.

Again I say, not if the Knicks continue to lose.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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9/23/2008  5:14 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
NY will get over Howard's Controversy.

Again I say, not if the Knicks continue to lose.
The bar is really low, though. Just making or even coming close to making the playoffs would be defined as huge progress.

franco12
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9/23/2008  8:25 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:
NY will get over Howard's Controversy.

Again I say, not if the Knicks continue to lose.
The bar is really low, though. Just making or even coming close to making the playoffs would be defined as huge progress.

Plus- management has already said 2010 is the year to look for achievements.

I think most fans are smart enough to know the knicks are a long way from being respectable.

Again, we're trading one underachieving player for another- but one with greater upside if he can turn it around and regain the form that got him his contract.

Curry got paid because he happens to play center, and there was a team desperate enough to pay for him (Isiah & the Knicks).

For another example of this, see Jerome James.
Allanfan20
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9/23/2008  9:58 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:
NY will get over Howard's Controversy.

Again I say, not if the Knicks continue to lose.
The bar is really low, though. Just making or even coming close to making the playoffs would be defined as huge progress.

Low standards. Coming close and just missing the playoffs or a first round exit is not making huge progress. I'd rather SUCK so we can get a killer draft pick. Why do you want a guy with this tude?

PS, I wouldn't take Sprewell, in his prime, on this team either. Waaaaay too much baggage. This team needs calm waters so we can just build our ship.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
sebstar
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9/23/2008  1:30 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

When the man says "I'm BLACK I don't celebrate that ****."

That's when it becomes racist. He's saying BLACK people don't celebrate THAT SHIT.

That SHIT = our country and the freedom our predecessors and current young and women fight for.

If BLACK people don't celebrate that, or shouldn't celebrate that, then he brings RACE into it, not me, he does.

To me, that means, WHITE people celebrate that SHIT, not Josh Howard, cause, Josh Howard is BLACK.

If you can't make the distinction, I can't help you on that, but that's what I and quite a few other people get out of it.




If he wants to be unpatriotic that's fine even if I don't condone that for he disrespects those that enabled him to play a childs game for millions of dollars.

However, he never said "I dont celebrate that ****."

He said "IM BLACK I dont celebrate that ****."

Meaning, BLACKS dont celebrate that ****.

Wanna know something? There's plenty of BLACK people that are angry over his comments as well for being RACIST and UNPATRIOTIC.


He said it, not I, don't try to cover it up on his behalf, he couldn't give a rats ass any of you breathe. That you can count on.

And, in case you missed it, one last time.

"I'm BLACK I dont celebrate that ****."

You're very unlikeable and your thought process is as scary as it is pathetic.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
sebstar
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9/23/2008  1:31 PM
Posted by PresIke:

I'm pretty much with sebstar here. What exactly has Josh Howard done that is so awful? Smoked weed and perhaps used some poor judgment in handling the situation? As if so few people in the world have ever done either.

As for his comments about national anthem, I can say that I often share similar sentiments and I am a self identified white male. Does this make one "anti-American" or "un-patriotic?" Hardly. These terms are filled with holes, as dissent as a foundation of this nation is probably more American than "patriotism," which one might want to reflect on as overemphasis on this has shown its ugly head by leading to forms of jingoism a la the Iraq War and Guantanamo Bay.

And he's wrong for criticizing the national anthem? Are people of color wrong to be upset about the conditions that have been presented to them by Western imperialism and colonialism?

When Muhammad Ali criticized U.S. foreign policy and went to jail refusing to go to Vietnam was he also "unpatriotic?"


His act did not necessarily reflect foolishness, as much as a rebellious attitudes that is held by more than a few citizens of this country who do not share all of the dominant views held by those with the most power and privilege. ESPN pundits suggesting he needs to be traded because the fans won't approve borders on supporting institutional racist behaviors practiced by businesses that have long gone unchecked.

I am dismayed to hear pundits even suggesting he can be traded for this on any legitimate level. You can't fire or reprimand someone for such behavior, which is effectively what would take place if he was traded. If he hit someone or did something else illegal (other than smoking weed, as if no one else does that, and the NBA already has a policy about drug use), then they would be in the right. The NBA has NO PLACE clamping down on this, and to hear them use the ultra-conservative NFL commissioner's practices as a model is even more dangerous and inciting.

Simply because one makes a good amount of money from one's abilities does not negate the right to free speech! And to hear the suggestion that he needs to be quiet sounds all to familiar...Josh has to be the "good slave, be grateful and keep his mouth shut.

If he came to the Knicks, I'd welcome him with open arms, although I doubt this will happen, and I don't think Cuban will deal Josh anytime soon.

Really good stuff here.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Cosmic
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9/23/2008  2:06 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Cosmic:

When the man says "I'm BLACK I don't celebrate that ****."

That's when it becomes racist. He's saying BLACK people don't celebrate THAT SHIT.

That SHIT = our country and the freedom our predecessors and current young and women fight for.

If BLACK people don't celebrate that, or shouldn't celebrate that, then he brings RACE into it, not me, he does.

To me, that means, WHITE people celebrate that SHIT, not Josh Howard, cause, Josh Howard is BLACK.

If you can't make the distinction, I can't help you on that, but that's what I and quite a few other people get out of it.




If he wants to be unpatriotic that's fine even if I don't condone that for he disrespects those that enabled him to play a childs game for millions of dollars.

However, he never said "I dont celebrate that ****."

He said "IM BLACK I dont celebrate that ****."

Meaning, BLACKS dont celebrate that ****.

Wanna know something? There's plenty of BLACK people that are angry over his comments as well for being RACIST and UNPATRIOTIC.


He said it, not I, don't try to cover it up on his behalf, he couldn't give a rats ass any of you breathe. That you can count on.

And, in case you missed it, one last time.

"I'm BLACK I dont celebrate that ****."

You're very unlikeable and your thought process is as scary as it is pathetic.

Really why is that? I'm not the one that said the comments, Howard did.

He is the one that brought race into the issue. He is the one who suggests he doesn't celebrate the SSB because of his racial background.

Not me, Howard did, so if you don't like my reiteration of his comments you sure shouldn't like his.


Had he said "I don't celebrate the SSB" then that is his choice and I'd chalk the comments up to being arrogant and unthankful.

Once he said "I'm Black" he inferred that he doesn't celebrate the SBB BECAUSE he is BLACK.

That immediately takes his comments from one of an unpatriotic opinion to one of hate born on racism.

His comment suggest that the SSB is a white man's thing, an oppressive thing, offensive to him because he is black.



Again, he's the racist, not me.

He made the comment, not me.

I am free to tear him apart for it and point out what many refuse to admit: That it is a RACIST comment from him not just simply a poorly thought out opinion.

It amazes me that this guy took a wild dump on our country and all those that fought for it and are presently fighting for it and used his racial background as reasoning for doing so.

If he's too stupid to realize that is what he did that's not my fault nor does he deserve a free pass.

Bottom Line: It was a racist comment.

Blame him, not me, I didn't say it, he did. You don't like it? Get on him not me for pointing out the obvious here.
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Bippity10
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9/23/2008  2:53 PM
Josh is a good player and under normal circumstances he would be great. Unfortunately at no time in the past year has this team shown it can handle controversy and distraction without completely imploding. It sucks but until we get back on track we can't consider guys like this no matter how much we want them
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EnySpree
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9/23/2008  4:17 PM
What the hell is going on in here? Analyzing **** to death....taking stuff from out of nowhere to prove a point.

So Josh howard for Curry works contract wise.....it is obvious from the bull**** spewed by some here that it wouldn't fly well so leave it alone I guess.
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Cosmic
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9/23/2008  4:23 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

What the hell is going on in here? Analyzing **** to death....taking stuff from out of nowhere to prove a point.

So Josh howard for Curry works contract wise.....it is obvious from the bull**** spewed by some here that it wouldn't fly well so leave it alone I guess.

Leaving out his most recent distasteful comments why would you want Josh Howard?

He's been rubbing his team the wrong way because what got him that pay day he no longer does. He is more content to play a lazier and lazier brand of lower contact basketball than he did when he made a name for himself. His off the court behavior (again this latest incident notwithstanding) has shown an increased pattern of a person who got his money and is now beginning to coast. He's getting himself in more and more trouble as time goes on.

This is hardly the player you seek to acquire. You need a player who gives his all and continues to do what got him to the big stage. Not a guy who has become content with his pay day and therefore coasts on the court more often than not and has become too comfortable with himself off the court to the point of getting involved in things he should not be involved in.


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TMS
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9/23/2008  4:56 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:
NY will get over Howard's Controversy.

Again I say, not if the Knicks continue to lose.
The bar is really low, though. Just making or even coming close to making the playoffs would be defined as huge progress.

of course it would... u can't realistically expect any title runs at this point... if they even made a run at the playoffs this year u'd have to consider this season a huge success... sad in a way yes, but after all the years of ineptitude the Knick fans are starving for something to get excited about, & i don't begrudge anyone that much as long as the team is starting to progress towards coming together as a team & playing winning style basketball... no more selfish primadonnas looking out for their own best interests w/o regard for the team's welfare... personally i've never thought of Josh Howard as that type of player... he's always seemed like a team first type player to me, but again i have no idea where the notion that he isn't comes from to begin with.
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BRIGGS
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9/23/2008  8:23 PM
--->Are people of color wrong to be upset about the conditions that have been presented to them by Western imperialism and colonialism?


Are millions of Jews wrong to be upset that their ancestors were nearly wiped out by Nazi Germany? Unfortunately the history of the world exhibits multiple cultures religions and creeds that have been oppressed. I think it's about time to get over it. I don't hold anyone of German descent culpable for their ancestors actions.

You honestly sound like a dude who would agree with Hugo Chavez or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The funny thing is if they had one minor opening they'd loft 1000 nuclear bombs into the US without thinking about it.
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Uptown
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9/23/2008  8:59 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

--->Are people of color wrong to be upset about the conditions that have been presented to them by Western imperialism and colonialism?


Are millions of Jews wrong to be upset that their ancestors were nearly wiped out by Nazi Germany? Unfortunately the history of the world exhibits multiple cultures religions and creeds that have been oppressed. I think it's about time to get over it. I don't hold anyone of German descent culpable for their ancestors actions.

You honestly sound like a dude who would agree with Hugo Chavez or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The funny thing is if they had one minor opening they'd loft 1000 nuclear bombs into the US without thinking about it.

How can oppressed people get over somehting that isn't over yet? Sure its not as blatant or as rampart as in the past, but people of color are still oppressed today not just in history.
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Thinking out loud: How bout Josh howard for Eddy Curry
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