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Memphis newspaper poppin s*** on Donnie and D'antoni's name
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TMS
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9/11/2008  7:08 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Donnie taking his time to study the trade. Continuing the trait that got on Miller's, Bird's and Brown's nerves. Oh well. Welcome to Donnie basketball. Patience at a fault.
So I take it you don't approve of the Walsh hiring? You don't seem to think it makes sense to take things slow after the whirlwind speed trades that Isiah made while here? We've got nothing but time here so what's the freaking rush? Why should we just give away an asset before 1st seeing what happens with the rest of the league?

You do realize that teams have injuries during the year all the time? Circumstances change with teams all the time, so I don't believe we need to take just any deal in order to get rid of Zach. What's so special about this season that we need to be in a rush to get it all fixed right away?

I don't understand the rush either. It seems like some fans are waiting for him to transform this team into the spurs overnight.... I thought we were supposed to be in favor of rebuilding the right way, being patient, weighing out trades carefully. I guess things really haven't changed with most of the fans..

there is a difference between being patient to undergo the rebuild & not being willing to sit still while the team pisses away yet another season w/malcontented players on the roster that are out for their own selfish gains & have absolutely no regard for the team concept... when u bring in a new coach & a new system, the last thing u need is a primadonna like Marbury or Zach mucking things up & undermining the coach before he even has a chance to get this team to gel as a unit... u have to get rid of the problem makers first & foremost before u can ever expect to start a true rebuilding process where the leftover players all are on the same page & wanna take the necessary steps towards playing as a team... i frankly don't understand what's so damn hard to understand here.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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TMS
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9/11/2008  7:10 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Is getting rid of Zach at any cost right now really the best thing for the team, or is it that we as fans just don't want to watch him anymore?

I'm of the mindset that if you can dump Zach for garbage today, you can dump him for garbage tomorrow. So why not try to raise his value? Nobody has given me a compelling reason yet. Other than, we just don't like him as fans.

the reason is u don't wanna waste another year w/that knucklehead on the roster & delay the rebuilding process even further... u gotta start by cutting off the poisoned areas & then u can start the healing process.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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9/11/2008  10:02 PM
I agree, but the season has not started yet. People were screaming two months ago. Again, we get it. I'm with you. But guys you can tell that they don't want to go through a season with Zach anymore than any of us do. They want the guy off the team. This is clear. But they(and I agree with them) don't feel the need at this point in time to get rid of the guy for nothing. Season doesn't start for a while, why not shop him around. Why not keep him for a short time just to see if you can get something for him. What's the need in the middle of July and August to dump the guy in a deal that actually hurts us?

I guess I'll end my side of the argument by saying, we have a long way to go fellas. This ship that Isiah built isn't getting fixed for a while. The cap situation is as complicated as it gets. Can't just make moves at this point in time just because we are sick of guys. D'Antoni has a different take on this team than any of us. He deserves a chance to see who he can work with. And I guarantee you, if he finds there is someone that he can't work with. They will be gone. That is the one part about this season that I have 100% confidence in. This is the first time in 7 years where our GM and Coach actually hold the juice card.
I just hope that people will like me
kam77
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9/11/2008  11:48 PM
The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.

This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Bonn1997
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9/12/2008  2:34 AM
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.

This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Ira
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9/12/2008  6:34 AM
This is crazy. The word was that Memphis wanted our first round pick. If Donnie did that deal would anyone here be dumb enough to support it. Sit down, take a deep breath and relax. It's clear that Donnie wants to trade Zach. He's just waiting for a deal that we can live with.
Bippity10
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9/12/2008  6:53 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.

This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
I just hope that people will like me
Markji
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9/12/2008  7:41 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.
This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
Could we be a little more possitive in our thinking! Please.

Since his rookie year where he played only 46 games, Zach has played in 77; 81; 46; 74; 68; 69 games each year. I wouldn't say he was injury-prone. Most players get some minor injury during the year....or are rested for games.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Bonn1997
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9/12/2008  8:02 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.

This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
No, not true. Right now, Memphis is willing to take back $32 mil of his salary, give us a decent 7' prospect (Darko), and give to help take $10 mil off our cap in 2010 for Zach and a pick. You think they'd do that if he went down and needed another microfracture surgery?
Bonn1997
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9/12/2008  8:06 AM
Posted by Ira:

This is crazy. The word was that Memphis wanted our first round pick. If Donnie did that deal would anyone here be dumb enough to support it. Sit down, take a deep breath and relax. It's clear that Donnie wants to trade Zach. He's just waiting for a deal that we can live with.
Let's do a hypothetical scenario: What if they were two separate trades?
Trade one: Zach for Marko Jaric with Memphis picking up $32 mil of Zach's salary and clearing $10 mil from our 2010 salary. Then that $10 mil is either put to use toward an FA in 2010 or to locking up David Lee long-term.
Trade two: A lottery protected pick for Darko

I wouldn't complain about either trade. I think people just got their hopes up over an unrealistic rumor involving the trade without us giving up a pick and are now disappointed.
Bonn1997
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9/12/2008  8:07 AM
Posted by Markji:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.
This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
Could we be a little more possitive in our thinking! Please.

Since his rookie year where he played only 46 games, Zach has played in 77; 81; 46; 74; 68; 69 games each year. I wouldn't say he was injury-prone. Most players get some minor injury during the year....or are rested for games.
I guess I (and all GMs not named Isiah Thomas) just missed all the positives about Zach
Markji
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9/12/2008  8:17 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Markji:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.
This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
Could we be a little more possitive in our thinking! Please.

Since his rookie year where he played only 46 games, Zach has played in 77; 81; 46; 74; 68; 69 games each year. I wouldn't say he was injury-prone. Most players get some minor injury during the year....or are rested for games.
I guess I (and all GMs not named Isiah Thomas) just missed all the positives about Zach
If you looked at the bolded areas of my post, my remark about posters being more positive referred to the possibilities listed by others of Zach getting injured; or punching out another player; getting suspended; etc.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Bippity10
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9/12/2008  9:30 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.

This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
No, not true. Right now, Memphis is willing to take back $32 mil of his salary, give us a decent 7' prospect (Darko), and give to help take $10 mil off our cap in 2010 for Zach and a pick. You think they'd do that if he went down and needed another microfracture surgery?

So Bonn, as we continue to try to rebuild, you are okay with getting rid of yet another first round pick? When does this stop?
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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9/12/2008  10:23 AM
I think people just hate Zach. They want him gone, and just want to get rid of him regardless of what we give up. Just get rid of him. I understand this, I just don't agree with it.

We have a long way to go to change the culture here. We took step one. We have a GM and Coach that want to work together. No longer is it a coach with a GM undermining his every move, thought and decision. The juice card has been taken away from the players. It's subtle, but trust me this has happened. Players will not be able to get away with what they have for the past few years. It is highly possible that a guy like Zach could pout and torpedo another season. Which would be more evidence that we have to rid ourselves of this roster. But this is the first time I've gone into a season since JVG left where I felt that the coach had as much or more power than the players. I think our team will be much more likely to rally behind D'Antoni and if they don't, I'm pretty sure that Walsh and D'Antoni will not tolerate it, and guys will be cut etc.

Take note: We have 17 guys on the roster right now. I'm guessing there is a good reason for that. It's a message to the vets. These guys won't diock around. But I know it's NY, and we need something done now before camp, and that's reality.
I just hope that people will like me
Bonn1997
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9/12/2008  10:37 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.

This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
No, not true. Right now, Memphis is willing to take back $32 mil of his salary, give us a decent 7' prospect (Darko), and give to help take $10 mil off our cap in 2010 for Zach and a pick. You think they'd do that if he went down and needed another microfracture surgery?

So Bonn, as we continue to try to rebuild, you are okay with getting rid of yet another first round pick? When does this stop?
No, I'm OK with replacing a mid to late 1st round pick with Darko if doing so helps us get a lot of cap room in 2010 and I don't see trading Zach for Jaric as hurting the team in any way. (I actually see it as helping us rebuild.) Which part do you disagree with?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-12-2008 10:38 AM]
Bippity10
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9/12/2008  10:42 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.

This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
No, not true. Right now, Memphis is willing to take back $32 mil of his salary, give us a decent 7' prospect (Darko), and give to help take $10 mil off our cap in 2010 for Zach and a pick. You think they'd do that if he went down and needed another microfracture surgery?

So Bonn, as we continue to try to rebuild, you are okay with getting rid of yet another first round pick? When does this stop?
No, I'm OK with replacing a mid to late 1st round pick with Darko if doing so helps us get a lot of cap room in 2010 and I don't see trading Zach for Jaric as hurting the team in any way. (I actually see it as helping us rebuild.) Which part do you disagree with?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-12-2008 10:38 AM]

The draft pick, I thought that was clear.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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9/12/2008  11:18 AM
I think for far too long we have given other teams whatever they wanted, just so we can get rid of someone, or just so we could obtain the "next superstar" from someone else. We've always been at someone else's mercy. But now it's a new ball game. The culture is being changed. We are not a doormat and it's time to deal from strength. I'm in the minority but I'm ecstatic to see a GM that is not going to rollover and give teams everything they want. He's attempting to raise the value of the players by his actions. Instead of hopping on the first deal that comes our way, he's letting teams know that if you want Zach you have to bring an offer that we want, not what you want.

Now, I'm not a Walsh koolaid drinker so I know that this method could fail miserably. Teams may ignore this and Zach's value stays low. We may be forced to have our bluff called and carry Zach well into the season. Zach may be a distraction and then you are forced to dump him for less than is being offered now. But I agree with this approach and understand that a 23, 33, 24 win team has nothing to lose at this point.

Teams know that our players look worse than they actually are because of our record. They know they can get players at bargain basement prices from us. They know they can get perks like first round draft picks thrown in to deals. I'm glad this guy is standing pat. Go on the offensive. There are plenty of examples of marginal personalities being traded late in seasons to teams that are clinging to playoff runs. Plenty of teams have rolled the dice and taken Zach like customers. Now, I know Isiah has been the one that has put forth most of those examples but it's not out of the realm of possibility. I say stand pat. Let Mike work with these guys at least through camp, see who he likes and then go from there.
I just hope that people will like me
Bonn1997
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9/12/2008  11:19 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.

This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
No, not true. Right now, Memphis is willing to take back $32 mil of his salary, give us a decent 7' prospect (Darko), and give to help take $10 mil off our cap in 2010 for Zach and a pick. You think they'd do that if he went down and needed another microfracture surgery?

So Bonn, as we continue to try to rebuild, you are okay with getting rid of yet another first round pick? When does this stop?
No, I'm OK with replacing a mid to late 1st round pick with Darko if doing so helps us get a lot of cap room in 2010 and I don't see trading Zach for Jaric as hurting the team in any way. (I actually see it as helping us rebuild.) Which part do you disagree with?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-12-2008 10:38 AM]

The draft pick, I thought that was clear.
Now it's clear. It's still puzzling (actually astonishing to me) that a mid to late pick is more important to you than a young big man, cap space, removing Zach, and getting more time for Lee. I really think this deal is fair for both sides and we'll never get something better. If I ran Memphis and the Knicks made me this offer, I'd actually decline it.
Bonn1997
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9/12/2008  11:22 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

I think for far too long we have given other teams whatever they wanted, just so we can get rid of someone, or just so we could obtain the "next superstar" from someone else. We've always been at someone else's mercy. But now it's a new ball game. The culture is being changed. We are not a doormat and it's time to deal from strength. I'm in the minority but I'm ecstatic to see a GM that is not going to rollover and give teams everything they want. He's attempting to raise the value of the players by his actions. Instead of hopping on the first deal that comes our way, he's letting teams know that if you want Zach you have to bring an offer that we want, not what you want.

Now, I'm not a Walsh koolaid drinker so I know that this method could fail miserably. Teams may ignore this and Zach's value stays low. We may be forced to have our bluff called and carry Zach well into the season. Zach may be a distraction and then you are forced to dump him for less than is being offered now. But I agree with this approach and understand that a 23, 33, 24 win team has nothing to lose at this point.

Teams know that our players look worse than they actually are because of our record. They know they can get players at bargain basement prices from us. They know they can get perks like first round draft picks thrown in to deals. I'm glad this guy is standing pat. Go on the offensive. There are plenty of examples of marginal personalities being traded late in seasons to teams that are clinging to playoff runs. Plenty of teams have rolled the dice and taken Zach like customers. Now, I know Isiah has been the one that has put forth most of those examples but it's not out of the realm of possibility. I say stand pat. Let Mike work with these guys at least through camp, see who he likes and then go from there.

OK, well now I see your reasons. I personally don't care if we're giving another team what they want. I just care if we're getting what we want. After the deal, I'd congratulate them for getting what they want and thank them for their stupidity.
Bippity10
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9/12/2008  11:23 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by kam77:

The longer we wait the bigger the risk that Zach comes in out of shape, not particularly motivated to be a team player since he knows he's a goner anyways, and perhaps he pouts... or maybe he gets hurt... or maybe he punches out some more teammates and gets suspended.

This guy has also played exactly one 81 game season. He gets hurt or misses significant time almost every year.
That's a good point. For all we know, he could get injured mid season and need another microfracture surgery and then be IMPOSSIBLE to trade.

Which would put us right where we are today.
No, not true. Right now, Memphis is willing to take back $32 mil of his salary, give us a decent 7' prospect (Darko), and give to help take $10 mil off our cap in 2010 for Zach and a pick. You think they'd do that if he went down and needed another microfracture surgery?

So Bonn, as we continue to try to rebuild, you are okay with getting rid of yet another first round pick? When does this stop?
No, I'm OK with replacing a mid to late 1st round pick with Darko if doing so helps us get a lot of cap room in 2010 and I don't see trading Zach for Jaric as hurting the team in any way. (I actually see it as helping us rebuild.) Which part do you disagree with?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-12-2008 10:38 AM]

The draft pick, I thought that was clear.
Now it's clear. It's still puzzling (actually astonishing to me) that a mid to late pick is more important to you than a young big man, cap space, removing Zach, and getting more time for Lee. I really think this deal is fair for both sides and we'll never get something better. If I ran Memphis and the Knicks made me this offer, I'd actually decline it.

you like Darko I don't. It's that simple. Just opinion dude, neither of us is right. If I was GM I wouldn't hop on this deal, unless they threw in another young player. I'm dealing from strength if I'm Donnie. Time to change the culture. No more dumping guys just to get rid of them, unless I am forced to. In the meantime, you give me what I want, or I stay the course. It's a good message being sent for future deals, but I think some of us are missing it.

Zach will be dealt. Just not on everyone's time frame.
I just hope that people will like me
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