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Grade Walsh's Draft
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franco12
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Granted, Isiah & Dolan crapped this organization big time, but every other team it seems is making deals and adding picks and what did we do? Grade him - A B C D F INC (incomplete)
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TrueBlue
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6/27/2008  12:22 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by martin:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by martin:
Posted by TrueBlue:

He didn't do well. He drafted an unknown project who has very much the capability to be worse than Andrea Bargnani. He should have been able to get another pick and make a trade that supports the 2010 movement. He was pretty much inactive.

He gets a D from me. D=Dumb, D=Dolt, D=Ditz, D=Doofus

you can say that about every pick.



I can confidently say there are at least 5 players who will have a better pro career than Danilo picked after him. There were players picked after him who weren't projects, who will have without a shadow of a doubt a very solid pro career. If for nothing else the guy doesn't completely understand the American game which puts him at a disadvantage. Of course he could be a fast learner, adjust well, and be a good player but in terms of projects with upside I wouldn't have picked Danilo higher than any other player. Plus he doesn't satisfy any of immediate needs.

We always try and rationalize our picks being better than are. Lee was nice but even then not nice enough of a pick to keep. All the rest of our picks haven't lived up to anything the past 5-7yrs.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-27-2008 10:08 AM]

who are your 5 players?

I guess Walsh and D'Antoni were trying to pick the BPA with the most upside. By your rationale, you would not have picked Dirk and perhaps Kobe either.


Danilo isn't being compared to Dirk and there was no project in this draft comparable to Kobe. I said I would have been willing to choose a player with upside(if we absolutely weren't trading the pick) who fulfilled our needs like Jordan(C)(defensive center who can man the paint block shots and has incredible athletic ability) or even DJ(PG) natural pure point guard player considering his supposed height risks(although some might not consider him a project). So I fail to see where you're going brining up Kobe an Dirk. Does Jordan stand the chance to be a Bust he sure does but he also could Dwight. Does DJ stand the chance to be a Bust sure he does but he also could a close Steve Nash. I'm not sure who they're being compared to right now but I haven't heard Danilo being mentioned in the same breath as Dirk. Let's roll with this example both Dirk ad Kobe were picked in different drafts so obviously out of their drafts I'd have picked Dirk as a project over say Peja Stojakovic or Zydrunas Illguaskas and picked Dirk over say Nesterovic or Ricky Davis. In essence IMO we reached for a player in the mold of Peja/Turkeyglue talent. Both ok players(take or leave them) can be good when you have the pieces around them.

dirk and kobe were projects and they wouldn't have satisfied needs either. The comparison is the "project" part.

There's no talent in this draft being compared to them. Totally different the talent separation between Joe and Danilo is slim to zero. There are always the exceptions like Danilo could be Darko. If the Pistons didn't want Melo because they had Prince why didn't they draft Chris Kaman or Boris Diaw instead? Both would have been better projects than Darko.
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TrueBlue
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6/27/2008  12:24 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

if we were going project, i'd have prefered anthony randolph. he at least rebounds and blocks shots and he seems to have comparable offensive upside.

Exactly if we go project go with the one who has the greatest chance to address needs while still maintaining the high upside. But since Danilo was the target from a yr ago no one really stood a fair chance in this draft. Which I said he was in our original plan from jump before the news broke.
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nyk4ever
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6/27/2008  12:25 PM
I was pretty high on Anthony Randolph in the 2 months leading up to the draft, but one thing worried me last night when he was drafted. Stuart Scott said to him "alot of people want to talk about your weight, you're only 197 pounds, what do you have to say that?"

Randolph replied "Nah man, I'm strong, I can push people around."

To me that sounded like a guy who had has no intention of getting into the weight room to build upon that 197 pound frame. I mean honestly, to be 6'9 and not even 200 pounds is disgusting. This guy is going to have to have a hell of a hard time in the pros if he has no intention on bulking up.
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codeunknown
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6/27/2008  12:32 PM
Its not surprising that D'Antoni picked Gallinari. His offense has been predicated on 4 3pt shooters on the floor at all times with a perimeter oriented power forward - Gallinari at the 4 spot affords us that. But, I'll say it again, he has to be able guard and rebound with power forwards. Thats where the biggest risk lies.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
martin
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6/27/2008  12:40 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by martin:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by martin:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by martin:
Posted by TrueBlue:

He didn't do well. He drafted an unknown project who has very much the capability to be worse than Andrea Bargnani. He should have been able to get another pick and make a trade that supports the 2010 movement. He was pretty much inactive.

He gets a D from me. D=Dumb, D=Dolt, D=Ditz, D=Doofus

you can say that about every pick.



I can confidently say there are at least 5 players who will have a better pro career than Danilo picked after him. There were players picked after him who weren't projects, who will have without a shadow of a doubt a very solid pro career. If for nothing else the guy doesn't completely understand the American game which puts him at a disadvantage. Of course he could be a fast learner, adjust well, and be a good player but in terms of projects with upside I wouldn't have picked Danilo higher than any other player. Plus he doesn't satisfy any of immediate needs.

We always try and rationalize our picks being better than are. Lee was nice but even then not nice enough of a pick to keep. All the rest of our picks haven't lived up to anything the past 5-7yrs.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-27-2008 10:08 AM]

who are your 5 players?

I guess Walsh and D'Antoni were trying to pick the BPA with the most upside. By your rationale, you would not have picked Dirk and perhaps Kobe either.


Danilo isn't being compared to Dirk and there was no project in this draft comparable to Kobe. I said I would have been willing to choose a player with upside(if we absolutely weren't trading the pick) who fulfilled our needs like Jordan(C)(defensive center who can man the paint block shots and has incredible athletic ability) or even DJ(PG) natural pure point guard player considering his supposed height risks(although some might not consider him a project). So I fail to see where you're going brining up Kobe an Dirk. Does Jordan stand the chance to be a Bust he sure does but he also could Dwight. Does DJ stand the chance to be a Bust sure he does but he also could a close Steve Nash. I'm not sure who they're being compared to right now but I haven't heard Danilo being mentioned in the same breath as Dirk. Let's roll with this example both Dirk ad Kobe were picked in different drafts so obviously out of their drafts I'd have picked Dirk as a project over say Peja Stojakovic or Zydrunas Illguaskas and picked Dirk over say Nesterovic or Ricky Davis. In essence IMO we reached for a player in the mold of Peja/Turkeyglue talent. Both ok players(take or leave them) can be good when you have the pieces around them.

dirk and kobe were projects and they wouldn't have satisfied needs either. The comparison is the "project" part.

There's no talent in this draft being compared to them. Totally different the talent separation between Joe and Danilo is slim to zero. There are always the exceptions like Danilo could be Darko. If the Pistons didn't want Melo because they had Prince why didn't they draft Chris Kaman or Boris Diaw instead? Both would have been better projects than Darko.

you still miss my point. If Kobe circa 1996 or Dirk circa 1998 where in this draft, you would have passed.
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islesfan
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6/27/2008  12:44 PM
Posted by codeunknown:

Its not surprising that D'Antoni picked Gallinari. His offense has been predicated on 4 3pt shooters on the floor at all times with a perimeter oriented power forward - Gallinari at the 4 spot affords us that. But, I'll say it again, he has to be able guard and rebound with power forwards. Thats where the biggest risk lies.

There's no chance that Gallinari will be strong enough to guard and rebound against most NBA 4's and he's far too slow to defend 3's. But D'Antonio's system isn't about defending anybody.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
codeunknown
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6/27/2008  12:47 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:

Its not surprising that D'Antoni picked Gallinari. His offense has been predicated on 4 3pt shooters on the floor at all times with a perimeter oriented power forward - Gallinari at the 4 spot affords us that. But, I'll say it again, he has to be able guard and rebound with power forwards. Thats where the biggest risk lies.

There's no chance that Gallinari will be strong enough to guard and rebound against most NBA 4's and he's far too slow to defend 3's. But D'Antonio's system isn't about defending anybody.


Paranoia and depression seem to be taking over your life. He's not a shrimp and he's 19. He'll fill out just fine. The question is whether he'll be competent guarding 4s and I don't thats a question that can be answered well at the moment.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
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6/27/2008  12:50 PM
By the way, a power forward that can shoot 3s at a high clip is probably the single best asset a point guard can have. You run a simple pick and roll and voila you have 8 dimes and 6 assists.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
islesfan
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6/27/2008  12:54 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:

Its not surprising that D'Antoni picked Gallinari. His offense has been predicated on 4 3pt shooters on the floor at all times with a perimeter oriented power forward - Gallinari at the 4 spot affords us that. But, I'll say it again, he has to be able guard and rebound with power forwards. Thats where the biggest risk lies.

There's no chance that Gallinari will be strong enough to guard and rebound against most NBA 4's and he's far too slow to defend 3's. But D'Antonio's system isn't about defending anybody.


Paranoia and depression seem to be taking over your life. He's not a shrimp and he's 19. He'll fill out just fine. The question is whether he'll be competent guarding 4s and I don't thats a question that can be answered well at the moment.

Filling out will only make him slower and more stiff. If that's possible. In the NBA he's a shrimp. There's no way in hell that he'll be competent guarding 4's or 3's for that matter.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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6/27/2008  12:55 PM
Posted by codeunknown:

By the way, a power forward that can shoot 3s at a high clip is probably the single best asset a point guard can have. You run a simple pick and roll and voila you have 8 dimes and 6 assists.

You're assuming he can get through picks against PG's who are much stronger than him.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
codeunknown
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6/27/2008  1:00 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:

Its not surprising that D'Antoni picked Gallinari. His offense has been predicated on 4 3pt shooters on the floor at all times with a perimeter oriented power forward - Gallinari at the 4 spot affords us that. But, I'll say it again, he has to be able guard and rebound with power forwards. Thats where the biggest risk lies.

There's no chance that Gallinari will be strong enough to guard and rebound against most NBA 4's and he's far too slow to defend 3's. But D'Antonio's system isn't about defending anybody.


Paranoia and depression seem to be taking over your life. He's not a shrimp and he's 19. He'll fill out just fine. The question is whether he'll be competent guarding 4s and I don't thats a question that can be answered well at the moment.

Filling out will only make him slower and more stiff. If that's possible. In the NBA he's a shrimp. There's no way in hell that he'll be competent guarding 4's or 3's for that matter.

Haha. I've got to give to you Isles - even though I've found you to be way off the mark more often than not as of late, atleast you do it with a panache.

I'll concede this, though - because of the likelihood that he'll never be a great defensive player, he better be a top 3 option in the offense. He'll need to have a high usage rate for him to ofset the points scored on him.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
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6/27/2008  1:01 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:

By the way, a power forward that can shoot 3s at a high clip is probably the single best asset a point guard can have. You run a simple pick and roll and voila you have 8 dimes and 6 assists.

You're assuming he can get through picks against PG's who are much stronger than him.

No. He'll be the one setting the picks.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
islesfan
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6/27/2008  1:03 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:

By the way, a power forward that can shoot 3s at a high clip is probably the single best asset a point guard can have. You run a simple pick and roll and voila you have 8 dimes and 6 assists.

You're assuming he can get through picks against PG's who are much stronger than him.

No. He'll be the one setting the picks.

That's what I meant.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
crzymdups
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6/27/2008  1:03 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:

By the way, a power forward that can shoot 3s at a high clip is probably the single best asset a point guard can have. You run a simple pick and roll and voila you have 8 dimes and 6 assists.

You're assuming he can get through picks against PG's who are much stronger than him.

no, marbs'll have like 10 dimes and 11 assists next year. he ain't gonna get another max contract otherwise. and that's factorial.

it'll be like a reunion of marbs and kvh.

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BRIGGS
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6/27/2008  1:04 PM
I don't see how anyone can average/grade less or more than C+ positive neutral. If you are giving him more than a C+ than you know for sure he will be able to guard and rebound effectively from the 4 and even the chief scouts on the pick dont know that answer. He is also not the most athletic guy and seemingly a bit of a tweener and that --quite honestly--does not always project that well. On the positive side he looks like he has moxy and he's quite skilled for 6-9. I think he is a hundred miles away from Michael beasley--but that is my opinion. If Mike is an A this player is a C+. It's all in the beauty of the beholder at this point. He's not ugly but he is no Farrah Fawcett jmho. At the end of the day I think there were opportunties to also move back and acquire this pick at the 9-13 spots
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codeunknown
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6/27/2008  1:04 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:

By the way, a power forward that can shoot 3s at a high clip is probably the single best asset a point guard can have. You run a simple pick and roll and voila you have 8 dimes and 6 assists.

You're assuming he can get through picks against PG's who are much stronger than him.

No. He'll be the one setting the picks.

That's what I meant.

So you're saying he'll have trouble spotting up at the 3 point line after setting a pick? What does he have - muscular dystrophy?
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Uptown
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6/27/2008  1:22 PM
Its pretty obvious to me, people have a problem with this pick because he's not american. What else could it be? Regardless of who we picked at 6, that prospect would have major question marks. I dont think you can say with conviction, that any prospect below him has a bigger upside.

And this bogus idea that he is an unkown player is a joke. I bet half of this board never seen Anthony Randolph, Bayless, or Jordan play more than 2-3 games. The difference is, they are american, we're more familiar with thier names, and they played in the NCAA.

The Euro league has better competition than the NCAA. The Euro league is full of professionals (the same pros thats been beating out olympic teams), and former NCAA all americans. I doubt players in the Big ten or SEC play against the caliber of players Galinari played against on a nightly basis. Besides, I think playing in the Euroleague will make Galinari just as ready as anyone in the draft to step right in and conrtibute.

He's 19, I doubt he's done growing. You can't look at this pick with an eye on our current team. I'm sure more moves are on the horizon.

If his name was Dan Gillery, and he played for UCLA or Kentucky and displayed the all around skill we have seen on the numerous videos, I'm sure no one would have a problem with this pick.



[Edited by - uptown on 06-27-2008 7:33 PM]
sebstar
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6/27/2008  1:37 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I don't see how anyone can average/grade less or more than C+ positive neutral. If you are giving him more than a C+ than you know for sure he will be able to guard and rebound effectively from the 4 and even the chief scouts on the pick dont know that answer. He is also not the most athletic guy and seemingly a bit of a tweener and that --quite honestly--does not always project that well. On the positive side he looks like he has moxy and he's quite skilled for 6-9. I think he is a hundred miles away from Michael beasley--but that is my opinion. If Mike is an A this player is a C+. It's all in the beauty of the beholder at this point. He's not ugly but he is no Farrah Fawcett jmho. At the end of the day I think there were opportunties to also move back and acquire this pick at the 9-13 spots

If 6 was the best we could do, I could live with the Gallinari selection. But the Mayo developments have cast a dark cloud over the draft and the pick. Black Thursday.

F grade, easy. Monumental failure.

[Edited by - sebstar on 06-27-2008 2:01 PM]
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franco12
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6/27/2008  1:44 PM
Posted by Uptown:

Its pretty obvious to me, people have a problem with this pick because he's not american. What else could it be. Regardless of who we picked at 6, that prospect would have major question marks. I dont think you can say with conviction, that any propect below him has a bigger upside.

And this bogus idea that he is an unkown player is a joke. I bet half of this board never seen Anthony Randolph, Bayless, or Jordon play more than 2-3 games. The difference is, they are american, we're more familiar with thier names, and they playe in the NCAA.

The Euro league has better competition than the NCAA. The Euro league is full of professionals (the same pros thats been beating out olympic teams), and former NCAA all americans. I doubt players in the Big ten or SEC play agianst the caliber of players Galinari played against on a nightly basis. Besides, I think playing in the Euroleague will make Galinari just as ready as anyone in the draft to step right in and conrtibute.

He's 19, I doubt he's done growing. You can't look at this pick with an eye on our current team. I'm sure more moves are on the horizon.

If his name was Dan Gillery, and he played for UCLA or Kentucky and displayed the all around skill we have seen on the numerous videos, I'm sure no one would have a problem with this pick.

The problem I have is that he has been described as being slow laterally and needing to work on Defense.

Sound familiar?

That is our whole team.

If he becomes Dirk Lite, I'm ok. I am sure he is a gamer.

Maybe he does have the most potential upside of anyone that was left.

Still, Walsh should have found a way to get another late first/early second round pick.
crzymdups
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6/27/2008  1:46 PM
my problem with the pick is that it does nothing to address the obvious weakness that this team has that seperates it from legitimately competing. we have no defense. if you look at every nba champion for the last 20 years, they've had a rugged interior player and usually one guy capable of 15rpg and 3blocks - Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Garnett, even Ben Wallace. jordan's teams are the exception, but he and pippen were suffocating defenders on their first title run. i want defense.

i wouldn't have a problem with gallinari if i thought we could go out and make sure we got a thabeet next year. but with this system we won't be doing it. it's just a clear sign to me that this era, however long it is, is going to be about entertainment and not building towards a championship. i could wait out losing if i had faith that winning was the bottom line, but it's not, it's about entertaining the rich fans from westchester county so they can bring their kids to the game.

that said, the pick isn't the end of the world because there wasn't anyone good on the board, outside of alexander or maybe randolph. if they'd passed on westbrook, i would've screamed. still, to me the pick is indicative that while the faces in charge have changed and it's a slightly different philosophy, the bottom line hasn't - entertain the fans, try to sell them on dubious plans like they're brilliant, like we're idiots. gus johnson telling me david lee doesn't fit the system? that's a smack in the face.

not buying more picks when portland was doing it left and right... so sickening. they stashed two euro studs who may wind up being better than our guy, and they got a perfect scoring guard for their team. we have the means to acquire assets but we don't do it - instead teams like boston, portland are buying picks, loading up on young cheap talent. don't worry, it'll be fine, we'll get bron if we can just get someone to take zach...
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