Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Elite:

do not get it twisted. D'antonis job is to come in here and raise the value of our players, make them look good while we try to get better ones. I dont think he will stillbe here for the championship run

That's all he's here for??? Oi vey.

So he's going to raise the value of the current players in order to trade them for players that fit D'Antonio's system or for a system that Walsh wants to put in place after D'Antonio is gone?

If it's the former then it's going to require another roster overhaul to change out D'Antonio type players. If it's the latter then D'Antonio won't be as effective raising the remaining players value and will likely feel that he doesn't belong there anymore since Walsh isn't giving him his type of players. Things will start deteriorating and all the players, new and old, will start to see their values diminish.

Bringing in D'Antonio simply to raise players values is beyond ridiculous and counter productive. If that was the case then they should have hired a neophyte coach and let him run and gun. What veteran head coach is going to come here after seeing D'Antonio get used like that?

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by fishmike:

we talked about Walsh.. and why would a guy like that want to come here? Good point DJ.. I think most people would have been thrilled.

everyone's entitled to their opinions but i think that if you want to enjoy the product, then expectations have to be reduced. not just knicks fans, but basically all new york fans in general.

with the knicks getting the #6 pick, it's almost guaranteed that this player will not be the reason for a title regardless of who the coach or gm is(since history says you need players in the 1-3 slot) . i think all that can be expected at this point is for the knicks to return to respectability and then the playoffs with a sustained presence there. and i think that's the end goal of walsh's 3 year plan. and unless a ewing is obtained, then becoming the next utah jazz (the deron/boozer version) is not necessarily a bad thing.

if that doesn't thrill you...then i suggest walking away from the team (aka removing the emotional attachment) and just becoming an observer of it. (kind of like what i did after being fed up with them for a few years)

remember, garden renovation is going on and the place will look completely brand spanking new in 2010. if they become a perennial playoff time, they can sell those luxury seats for even more than they plan to otherwise.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-19-2008 10:15 AM]

Posted by islesfan:

Why would any Knicks fan be happy with setting the bar that low?

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by islesfan:

Why would any Knicks fan be happy with setting the bar that low?

it's probably the only way to get through the years of losing without getting all worked up.

Posted by islesfan:


Players gush about D'Antonio because he doesn't ask them to play defense and there's no such thing as a bad or rushed shot in his System. I thought attracting FA's was a pointless exercise anyway, at least according to you.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by islesfan:


Players gush about D'Antonio because he doesn't ask them to play defense and there's no such thing as a bad or rushed shot in his System. I thought attracting FA's was a pointless exercise anyway, at least according to you.

So either your telling me players don't want to win a championship or they are really dumb? Since players must know that the only way you win a championship is "by playing defense."

Posted by fishmike:

Players gush about D'Antonio because he doesn't ask them to play defense and there's no such thing as a bad or rushed shot in his System. I thought attracting FA's was a pointless exercise anyway, at least according to you.

So which is it? If you value FAs Mike is the best coach. You want to have your cake and eat it. If you care about the cap and space for FAs there is no better choice than DAntoni. Lebron isnt coming to play with Mark JAckson

there's no such thing as a bad or rushed shot in his System.

Is that how and why the have the league's highest shooting %? By chucking?

because he doesn't ask them to play defense

Pho is 12th in the league in opposing FG% and they are ranked higher than Utah among others. I guess Mike asks his team to play more D than Sloan does. Good for Mike.

D'Antonio brings a regular season winning culture when he has an MVP PG and 2 freakishly athletic all star forwards.

Was Nash an MVP before playing with Mike? Dont think he was...

Players statistics clearly get better under D'Antonio. That's what usually happens in a run and gun, shoot in 7 seconds or less, system.

Wins also increase under DAntonio. You seem to overlook that. Your welcome for the reminder

As for D'Antonio type players, we aren't getting Marion, Amare or Nash in their primes and Bell, Diaw and Barbosa are average players with inflated numbers.

Nash left Dal because they didnt want to pay him. Under Mike he became a 2 time MVP. Marion won more all stars with Mike than before him. And more games also. When Amare was hurt did Pho end up in the lottery?

Since facts dont impress you let me give you some. When their freakish athletic center Amare played 3 games Mike D started the average Boris Diaw at center in a conference dominated by size and won 54 games. Oh yea.. they also went the WCF that year as well.

Your points are transparent and your arguements stink. You can label it anyway you want but Mike wins and players get better under him. He's also shown that he can plug an "average" player who's a SF into center to replace "a freakish athletic all star" and that team still wins 54 games and goes to the NBA final 4. Must be a pretty good system he runs eh?

I don't want FA's who are more interested in fattening up their stats and don't care about defense. I want FA's who want to win championships and D'Antonio isn't the draw that you and others make him out to be. Tom Thibodeau would be. FA's could ask KG, Pierce and Allen what they think about him and if they could win a championship with him as their coach.

They had the highest shooting % because of Nash. Without him, shooting in 7 seconds or less becomes a lot less effective.

That explains why teams, who try to keep up with Phoenix but don't have the personnel necessary for that system, aren't as effective hence the lower FG%. But if you want to think that D'Antonio asks his team to play more D than Sloan does, go right ahead and prove how little you know. BTW, I know you know better than that and that this is a prime example of how statistics can be misleading.

Nash was an all star PG in a conference with a lot of good PG's. Playing in a system tailor made for him turned him into an MVP candidate. Do you honestly expect the Knicks to find someone nearly as perfect as Nash? Not even close.

I have never overlooked D'Antonio's effect on win loss records in the regular season. I've been saying since the day they hired him that next year's draft pick will be hurt by D'Antonio getting this team to around .500 next year. Maybe you should remind yourself of this before you keep making bogus statements.

Like you said, Nash and Marion were both elite players before D'Antonio. And like I said, D'Antonio's system boosts numbers up, especially for already great players. All star appearances are based on numbers. Put 2 and 2 together.

They did a nice job without Amare, I never said anything to dispute that. They still had Nash, they still had Marion and other players suited for his system. They were also going to beat up on weaker teams who were stupid enough to try to run with them. The biggest problem with his system isn't going to reveal itself during the regular season, it's going to be exposed in the playoffs against real contenders. The Suns had the absolute perfect players for his system and maxed out in the conf finals.

I don't personally care what you think of my points and arguments. They're still very much based on fact and completely logical. At least for people who want to look at it objectively.