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imho, only 1 deal this summer
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bitty41
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6/10/2008  10:42 PM
Posted by TMS:

just as long as we don't have a team full of malcontented selfish primadonnas making huge salary i'm fine w/whatever Walsh decides to do from here on out.

And there is something wrong with this because? Look everyone on a bad team is a malcontented and most elite athletes are primadonnas hell most people successful making millions are primadonnas why is this being equated to being some kind of serial killer. Its not that serious most of these guys when put in a good situation get their act together. I have absolute faith that if Stephen Jackson can go through the playoffs not being incarcerated ANYONE this league is capable of being a model citizen when things are going well.
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TMS
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6/10/2008  10:50 PM
i agree that players can be on their good behavior when things are going well... why do u think i don't mind taking a risk on guys like Artest? i made reference to how Rasheed turned his career around when he got to Detroit many years ago... Carlos Boozer turned his career around when he got to Utah... i'm sure Zach can turn things around for himself in the right situation... the point is the right situation is not here... he needs to go.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bitty41
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6/10/2008  10:53 PM
Posted by TMS:

i agree that players can be on their good behavior when things are going well... why do u think i don't mind taking a risk on guys like Artest? i made reference to how Rasheed turned his career around when he got to Detroit many years ago... Carlos Boozer turned his career around when he got to Utah... i'm sure Zach can turn things around for himself in the right situation... the point is the right situation is not here... he needs to go.

And NY was a good situation last season? And this isn't the answer either:
TMS
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6/10/2008  10:58 PM
i didn't say KMart was some sort of savior... he's not a very desirable asset to go after but we don't have many choices at this point when we're talking about trading a guy like Zach... of course we can always make that Philly trade that may be on the table & we can go debate for another 12 pages how cap space doesn't help us build a winning basketball team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
CrushAlot
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6/10/2008  11:30 PM
Zach is healthy, young and productive. He puts up numbers and is a very good scorer. Martin is not healthy, he is the first nba player to ever have microfracture surgery on both of his knees. He has a horrible contract. His game is based on athleticism. He has had problems in the locker room and with coaches. He would have been a good guy for this system prior to his two knee surgeries but he was never worth his contract.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TMS
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6/10/2008  11:37 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

Zach is healthy.... Martin is not healthy

Zach played 68 games last year & averaged 35 mpg
KMart played 71 games & averaged 30 mpg

Zach averaged 17 ppg & shot 46% last year compared to KMart's 12 & 54%

Zach doesn't know the meaning of the word defense or team play... KMart plays hard on both ends of the floor even if he's not nearly the player he used to be

let's not make KMart out to be some scrub player on 2 bad knees that can't be productive... he had a solid season last year for DEN & can still be an effective role player for you if you put him in the right system... i happen to think adding him would create a better balance & team chemistry personally.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
DarkKnicks
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6/11/2008  4:24 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by DarkKnicks:

As much as I dont want to see Randolph contract in our payroll, I want Curry gone too as soon as possible as my main priority, unless someone decides to make him a 6th man or get a defensive PF. The league is full of PF's who dont play much defense (Gasol, Boozer, Bosh, Amare,etc), but no team can afford to have a starting center that blocks less shots than most guards, rebounds worse than SF's and turns the ball over.
Is not just a matter of having cap space (which is also very important), but to be able to start things properly as a new team. Curry (who cant play PF of course) can only be effective (by being effective I mean that his team can benefit from his strenghts and win games) when playing next to Tim Dunca, Okafor, J'Oneal and maybe Kenyon Martin (both injury prones), and very few more people, while Randolph's no-defense could be helped with guys like Camby, Bynum, Prizbilla(!!!), Dampier, Howard, Okafor (he can play both PF and C I think), Hunter, Dalembert and all those typical defensive center that have been so abundant for years. I dont mean we need especifically any of those, is just that it is always easier to find someone to complement a "no-defense" PF than a "no-defense-no-rebounds" C.
The problem is that the market for Eddy Curry is not really big... same as Zach.

Sorry for repeating myself so much with this lately, lol.

[Edited by - DarkKnicks on 10-06-2008 11:29 PM]

I agree that you need to get rid of both Randolph and Curry. The reason why you get rid of Randolph now and not later is because he's the one whose trade value is most likely to decrease over the next year. You can rehab statistics but statistics have never been Randolph's problem, mostly because he makes sure that he gets his. His attitude, personality and unwillingness to work within the constraints of a team concept are why his trade value only gets worse every year. It's so bad that he's made his own stats meaningless.

If you get rid of Randolph, Curry automatically becomes more comfortable. Then I would look to boost Curry's trade value all year by getting the ball to him got at least 13-15 shots a game. Then next summer you can look to trade him when his value is higher or better yet, let him opt out of his contract. Getting rid of Curry now would be selling low after we bought him at a huge price to the franchise.
You are right about Randolph, but with Curry automatically becoming more comfortable I dont see us winning more games really, and his stats are also meaningless. Its hard to find a less useful 20 ppg scorer in the league, because Curry scoring 20 means that he has played enough minutes to have his team probably outscored with his lack of defense, rebounding and intelligence. I have also serious doubts that we can improve his trade value with the coach we have now. In fact it seems to me that it can go the opposite way...
Anyway, ok, maybe is not a bad idea to try to force Curry to get his 20 ppg while winning 30 games next season (thats the price for his 20 ppg) and then trade him in the next summer when he has a higher value, but its a high risk situation if he clashes with D'Antoni soon.
What we all know is that Curry can not be the starting center of a serious team unless he plays next to a very good defensive PF. He could be a nice 6th man though...
GKFv2
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6/11/2008  4:32 AM
I still don't understand the whole "fitting with Curry" thing. If the team is making moves based on "fitting" with Curry then they will continue to suck large amounts of ass.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
bitty41
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6/11/2008  8:21 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by CrushAlot:

Zach is healthy.... Martin is not healthy

Zach played 68 games last year & averaged 35 mpg
KMart played 71 games & averaged 30 mpg

Zach averaged 17 ppg & shot 46% last year compared to KMart's 12 & 54%

Zach doesn't know the meaning of the word defense or team play... KMart plays hard on both ends of the floor even if he's not nearly the player he used to be

let's not make KMart out to be some scrub player on 2 bad knees that can't be productive... he had a solid season last year for DEN & can still be an effective role player for you if you put him in the right system... i happen to think adding him would create a better balance & team chemistry personally.


TMS

Don't even play yourself bc Zach is significantly better player with the (exception of KMartin being a better defender) then Martin not saying Zach is a superstar but again KMart hasn't played well in a really reallly really really really long time.

KMart'salary increases later in his contract and we could be paying this while he's practically in retirement mode because of injuries.



[Edited by - bitty41 on 06-11-2008 08:23 AM]
islesfan
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6/11/2008  1:11 PM
Suit against ex-Trail Blazer dropped
Harassment - Robert Bacote claimed Zach Randolph retaliated for an abused dogs case
Tuesday, June 10, 2008
AIMEE GREEN
The Oregonian Staff

A $300,000 lawsuit claiming former Trail Blazer Zach Randolph battered and harassed a man because he thought the man "snitched" to police on former teammate Qyntel Woods has been dropped.

Attorneys for both sides said Monday that the suit would be dismissed, but declined to comment further. That left open the question of whether the case had been settled for a secret sum of money or whether it fell apart because of lack of evidence.

Woods was ordered by a judge last July to pay Robert Bacote $80,000 after Woods failed to respond to the suit, said Bacote's attorney, Sean Hartfield. He said Woods has yet to pay.

Bacote filed suit against Woods and Randolph in October 2006, claiming that the pair wrongly suspected him of telling police two years earlier that Woods abused animals. That same month, one of Woods' pit bulls had been found in a Portland alley with cuts, bruises and scarring.

Police suspected illegal dog-fighting, and discovered bloody paw prints and smears in Woods' Lake Oswego home. Woods was never charged with that crime, but pleaded guilty to first-degree animal abuse and was sentenced to one year of probation and 80 hours of community service.

Bacote claimed he lived in fear over the next two years as Woods, Randolph and a circle of their followers harassed him by phone and in person.

The suit claimed that Bacote, a 34-year-old rapper who goes by the name "Mackin' Rob," was surrounded by Woods, Randolph and their friends after performing at the Roseland Theater in mid-October 2004. Woods, now 27, confronted Bacote by saying "Why you rat on me, dude?" and punching him in the chest with both fists. The suit claimed Randolph, now 26, added "You a snitch, man," pushed Bacote from behind and egged on Woods, who was holding Bacote's arm as another man choked him.

The suit also alleged that Randolph struck Bacote in the chest at a nightclub.

Bacote's complaint claims that his life was threatened twice. In one instance, several men he believed to be friends of the players yelled from a luxury car, "Snitches die where we come from, punk."

The suit had been scheduled to go to trial Monday in Multnomah County Circuit Court.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Yeah, Zach Randolph's trade value can't get any lower based on his on AND off court problems. Despite the fact that the case was dismissed, by settlement or lack of evidence, this is just another blot on Randolph's dismal record.

But for some reason, people don't understand the value that the Knicks will receive simply by removing him from the team.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
bitty41
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6/11/2008  1:19 PM
The suit claimed that Bacote, a 34-year-old rapper who goes by the name "Mackin' Rob,"


The 34 year old rapper pretty said it all about the guy who filed the suit.
Allanfan20
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6/11/2008  1:20 PM
Oh trust me Islesfan. Zach is a scumbag and I'd like to punch Isiah in the face for trading for him. I did when he made the trade too. However, I think it's more valueable that we get the best players we can so we can build a team. If we can't get any feelers for Zach, then just waive his f'ed up ass.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
djsunyc
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6/11/2008  1:22 PM
Posted by bitty41:

The suit claimed that Bacote, a 34-year-old rapper who goes by the name "Mackin' Rob,"


The 34 year old rapper pretty said it all about the guy who filed the suit.



you got to pray just to make it today...
islesfan
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6/11/2008  1:26 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Oh trust me Islesfan. Zach is a scumbag and I'd like to punch Isiah in the face for trading for him. I did when he made the trade too. However, I think it's more valueable that we get the best players we can so we can build a team. If we can't get any feelers for Zach, then just waive his f'ed up ass.

Waiving Randolph does nothing but hamper Walsh in his oft stated goal to manage the cap with 2010 free agency in mind. So obviously Walsh understands the value of getting rid of his biggest albatross contract, much less all the baggage that comes with Randolph.

[Edited by - islesfan on 11-06-2008 1:29 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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6/11/2008  1:28 PM
Posted by bitty41:

The suit claimed that Bacote, a 34-year-old rapper who goes by the name "Mackin' Rob,"


The 34 year old rapper pretty said it all about the guy who filed the suit.

please...you copped FOUR copies of his cd...one for the house, one for the car, one for your job at the car wash and one just in case you play any of the other ones out...
TMS
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6/11/2008  1:57 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by CrushAlot:

Zach is healthy.... Martin is not healthy

Zach played 68 games last year & averaged 35 mpg
KMart played 71 games & averaged 30 mpg

Zach averaged 17 ppg & shot 46% last year compared to KMart's 12 & 54%

Zach doesn't know the meaning of the word defense or team play... KMart plays hard on both ends of the floor even if he's not nearly the player he used to be

let's not make KMart out to be some scrub player on 2 bad knees that can't be productive... he had a solid season last year for DEN & can still be an effective role player for you if you put him in the right system... i happen to think adding him would create a better balance & team chemistry personally.


TMS

Don't even play yourself bc Zach is significantly better player with the (exception of KMartin being a better defender) then Martin not saying Zach is a superstar but again KMart hasn't played well in a really reallly really really really long time.

KMart'salary increases later in his contract and we could be paying this while he's practically in retirement mode because of injuries.



[Edited by - bitty41 on 06-11-2008 08:23 AM]

how am i playing myself? i just outlined how those players stack up... no kidding Zach's more productive... that's not the point... you make it sound as if playing defense is a minor consideration here... Zach is distinctly 1 dimensional in his game... he is a scorer who demands a high amount of shots in the post & shoots at a lower percentage, he is slow footed & doesn't play an ounce of defense... just stop me as soon as i say something that you disagree with here... i don't feel he is a good fit for this team, period... what are u trying to argue here? i already know about KMart's health issues but last year he proved he can remain healthy & i have confidence he can do it again this year... who says microfracture knee surgery has to end your career? did it stop Amare from becoming productive again? hell, Antonio freakin' McDyess has become a productive player for the Pistons, who ever thought that was gonna happen?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bitty41
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6/11/2008  4:36 PM
TMS

KMart was never good so there is a big distinction between him and Amare Stoudamire/McDyess.

In terms of defense Kmart is OK not great hardly a defensive player of the year candidate. And his health issues aside Kmart just ain't good I don't care how many ways you try to manipulate the facts his best years are behind him. And you really believe that in 2011 or whenever his contract is complete he'll be healthy and able to play big minutes on a playoff caliber team? Come on again DON't PLAY YOURSELF
TMS
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6/11/2008  4:57 PM
bitty

KMart was a key member of back to back Finals teams... for his career he's a 15 & 7 player who plays on both ends of the floor... if u don't think he was ever any good, i have no idea why u think Zach is.

careerwise Zach is a 16 & 8 player doesn't play D w/tons of baggage... the closest he's ever gotten to even sniffing the Finals is as a minor role player on a 50 win POR team that got eliminated in the 1st round... he's not the 20 & 10 dream guy you fantasize about so please enough w/that whole BS talk already... that's almost like saying Curry's a 19 & 7 guy cuz of the career best season he had 2 years ago.

i dunno about KMart's ability to play big minutes on a playoff calibre team now but at least he's shown in the past that he could play a key role in getting his team to the Finals... what has Zach proven over his career? that he can be a selfish ballhog in the paint & put up #'s while his teams finish out of the playoffs every year? hell if PJ freakin' Brown at the age of 33 can contribute to a playoff team in New Orleans i dunno why u would rule out the possibility that KMart could do the same if not more... i'd much rather take my chances w/KMart who plays D & can put up some decent #'s on the offensive end than continue w/this already failed Zach experiment.

they're not that far off in comparison... even at nowhere near the player he used to be i'd still rather have KMart over Zach... that should tell u how much i think Zach is a poisonous presence on this roster.

i ain't playing myself bitmeister, but you on the other hand...

[Edited by - TMS on 06-11-2008 2:02 PM]

[Edited by - TMS on 06-11-2008 2:12 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bitty41
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6/11/2008  5:10 PM
Posted by TMS:

bitty

KMart was a key member of back to back Finals teams... for his career he's a 15 & 7 player who plays on both ends of the floor... if u don't think he was ever any good, i have no idea why u think Zach is.

careerwise Zach is a 16 & 8 player doesn't play D w/tons of baggage... the closest he's ever gotten to even sniffing the Finals is as a minor role player on a 50 win POR team that got eliminated in the 1st round... he's not the 20 & 10 dream guy you fantasize about so please enough w/that whole BS talk already... that's almost like saying Curry's a 19 & 7 guy cuz of the career best season he had 2 years ago.

they're not that far off in comparison... even at nowhere near the player he used to be i'd still rather have KMart over Zach... that should tell u how much i think Zach is a poisonous presence on this roster.

Whatever you would probably take Mike Sweetney because after all he's a "high character guy" LOL. So im not counting on you to give an unbiased assessment. And the numbers with which you manipulate is that early in Zach's career when his minutes were low playing behind Rasheed Wallace he averaged under 20 mins a game. But when averaging over 30 minutes a game his numbers were around 19/9. But nice try on the numbers front. This is a foolish argument KMart is no longer a good player maybe a best a 6 man possibly a starter alongside a beast of a center: he's injury prone, never developed any kind of offensive game, and his defense consists of basically just trying to block shots which if u don't know isn't always stellar defense.




[Edited by - bitty41 on 06-11-2008 5:11 PM]
TMS
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6/11/2008  5:14 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by TMS:

bitty

KMart was a key member of back to back Finals teams... for his career he's a 15 & 7 player who plays on both ends of the floor... if u don't think he was ever any good, i have no idea why u think Zach is.

careerwise Zach is a 16 & 8 player doesn't play D w/tons of baggage... the closest he's ever gotten to even sniffing the Finals is as a minor role player on a 50 win POR team that got eliminated in the 1st round... he's not the 20 & 10 dream guy you fantasize about so please enough w/that whole BS talk already... that's almost like saying Curry's a 19 & 7 guy cuz of the career best season he had 2 years ago.

they're not that far off in comparison... even at nowhere near the player he used to be i'd still rather have KMart over Zach... that should tell u how much i think Zach is a poisonous presence on this roster.

Whatever you would probably take Mike Sweetney because after all he's a "high character guy" LOL. So im not counting on you to give an unbiased assessment. And the numbers with which you manipulate is that early in Zach's career when his minutes were low playing behind Rasheed Wallace he averaged under 20 mins a game. But when averaging over 30 minutes a game his numbers were around 19/9. But nice try on the numbers front. This is a foolish argument KMart is no longer a good player maybe a best a 6 man possibly a starter alongside a beast of a center: he's injury prone, never developed any kind of offensive game, and his defense consists of basically just trying to block shots which if u don't know isn't always stellar defense.




[Edited by - bitty41 on 06-11-2008 5:11 PM]

yeah, that's another bit of genius on your part... go ahead & ask Bip or anyone else from back on the MSG forums what my feelings were on Sweetney when he was drafted... i guess my love for boyscouts is also why i wanted to go after Ron Artest after Isiah made the trade for Zach... please.

as for the 19/9 argument of yours, as soon as you point out to me how successful Zach's teams were when he was putting up those #'s i'll consider some of your counterpoints... u wanna talk about me manipulating stats, that's pretty funny... u'r taking a selective sample of his Zach's best years only, how is that not biased on your part?... OK fine, Zach's a 19/9 guy who never gets his teams to the playoffs... whoopdee freakin' doo.

& btw, bitty... if u don't want me to make any snitty comments at ya you should probably lay off the sarcasm on your end... i think that's only fair.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-11-2008 2:26 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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