Posted by joec32033:

That RJ for Odom deal is the exact reason we can't plan on getting LBJ. We ain't the only fish in the pond on that.

I think Harrington would be a great acquisition for us. He'll fit Mike D's system very well.

If Portland wants Barbosa maybe we can get the #13 for Nate and Balkman?

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by joec32033:

That RJ for Odom deal is the exact reason we can't plan on getting LBJ. We ain't the only fish in the pond on that.

I think Harrington would be a great acquisition for us. He'll fit Mike D's system very well.

If Portland wants Barbosa maybe we can get the #13 for Nate and Balkman?

that RJ for Odom deal is the precise reason why we should be making a trade to dump Zach's contract... there are teams maneuvering for Lebron & those other bigname FA's as we speak... if you wanna be the biggest NBA market team out of that sweepstakes just so we can draft Anthony Randolph or whoever else at #6 this year it's absolutely foolish IMHO... we may not be the only fish in that pond but i guarantee you we will be the biggest fish in that pond as long as we're not hooked in the mouth to dead weight like Zach Randolph's contract in 2 years' time.

btw, agree w/u on Al Harrington... i've always wanted him on the Knicks & i think he'd be a perfect fit for D'Antoni's system as well... Malik & Chandler for Harrington & the #49

[Edited by - TMS on 06-20-2008 12:31 PM]

I guess if it's trade the 6th pick, or no chance at Lebron it's foolish. but I don't look at it that way. I don't think we have to trade the 6th pick to move Randolph. Also I doubt Lebron is signed as an UFA. Wouldn't it almost certainly go down as a S&T?

Posted by TMS:

Posted by joec32033:

TMS and True...I didn't say not to try to get him but making moves thinking we just are waiting for LeBron to arrive is wrong,imo. If we have any chance to get a young stud(like Carmelo) or build a team like the Pistons did9Get deals done for guys like Artes, Jermaine, Redd so that they are on the same team, I think we should do it.

i dunno how many times i gotta address the fact there's a lot more bigname's who will be available that year other than Lebron, but hey, your preference is your preference... i got no problems going after guys like JO or Artest (if u can get him on a MLE or reasonable contract) cuz that won't kill our cap flexibility.

as for the other guys, if you'd rather target 2nd & 3rd tier talent like Michael Redd, Baron Davis, etc. so we can make a run at a playoffs appearance than make moves to get cap flexibility in 2010 so we can target guys like Lebron, Wade, Dirk & Amare that's your call... history tells me we're not winning any championships until we nab ourselves a franchise calibre talent... i'm not satisfied w/playoff runs, i want a championship... first thing we need to do in order to achieve that is to get a guy we can build around so we can get that championship.

i dunno about you guys, but when respected NBA executives w/a history of building successful NBA franchises like Rod Thorn & Donnie Walsh make their desire to achieve cap flexibility in 2010 sort of a big deal, i tend to put some value in their line of thinking.

That said, it is important to note that so much can happen between now and then. Over the course of two years, it is certainly possible that some of these names could sign extensions or choose not to exercise player options, etc. These names are by no means set in stone. Nonetheless, the sheer magnitude of exceptional players is astonishing.

So, let's break into a few categories. First up, let's start with the Stars whose contracts expire following the 2009-2010 season and will then become honest-to-goodness free agents:

Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobili
Marcus Camby
Tracey McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Brad Miller
Stephen Jackson
Jermaine O'Neal
Mike Miller
Rip Hamilton

The next grouping is those Players that are signed thru 2011, but can opt out in 2010 if they so choose:
Amare Stoudamire (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
LeBron James (owed 17.2 million in 10/11)
Dwayne Wade (owed 17.0 million in 10/11)
Chris Bosh (owed 17.1 million in 10/11)
Dirk Nowitzki (owed $21.5 million in 10/11)
Josh Howard (owed $11.8 million in 10/11)
Mike Redd (owed $18.3 million in 10/11)
Tyson Chandler (owed $12.8 million in 10/11)

This next list consists of Contracts that are set to expire in 2010, but the player may choose to opt-out following the 2008-2009 season:
Steve Nash (owed $13.1 million in 09-10)
Carlos Boozer (owed $12.7 million in 09-10)
Chris Paul (owed $6 million in 09-10 / almost certain to sign an extension before becoming unrestricted)
Memo Okur (owed $9.0 million in 09-10)
Hedo Turkoglu (owed $7.4 million in 09-10)


In addition to the superstars listed above, these 'Second-tier' players are set to hit the open market as well:
Ben Wallace
Larry Hughes
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Anderson Varejao (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Al Harrington
Darko Milicic
Udonis Haslem
Jamal Crawford (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Eddy Curry (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Amir Johnson
Derek Fisher
Raja Bell
T.J. Ford (player option - owed $8.5 million in 10/11)
Travis Outlaw
Bruce Bowen
Earl Watson
Luke Ridnour
Matt Harpring
Quentin Richardson
Damien Wilkins

We also must include the list of Players that will actually eventually have value due solely to the fact their contracts come off the books in the summer of 2010:
Jerome James (proof that Isiah Thomas knew what he was doing all along!)
Cuttino Mobley
Brendan Haywood
Tim Thomas
Brian Cardinal
Antonio Davis
Mark Blount
Bobby Simmons
Troy Hudson
Darius Miles
Kenny Thomas
Shareef Abdul-Rahim
Matt Bonner
Etan Thomas

Last, but not least, we have the 2006 Draft Class. These Players will all be restricted free-agents in 2010, if they haven't already been inked to extensions:
Brandon Roy
Rudy Gay
LaMarcus Aldridge
Andrea Bargnani
Rajon Rondo
Tyrus Thomas
Kyle Lowry
Randy Foye
Marcus Williams
Josh Boone
Renaldo Balkman
Sergio Rodriguez
Ronnie Brewer

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by joec32033:

TMS and True...I didn't say not to try to get him but making moves thinking we just are waiting for LeBron to arrive is wrong,imo. If we have any chance to get a young stud(like Carmelo) or build a team like the Pistons did9Get deals done for guys like Artes, Jermaine, Redd so that they are on the same team, I think we should do it.

i dunno how many times i gotta address the fact there's a lot more bigname's who will be available that year other than Lebron, but hey, your preference is your preference... i got no problems going after guys like JO or Artest (if u can get him on a MLE or reasonable contract) cuz that won't kill our cap flexibility.

as for the other guys, if you'd rather target 2nd & 3rd tier talent like Michael Redd, Baron Davis, etc. so we can make a run at a playoffs appearance than make moves to get cap flexibility in 2010 so we can target guys like Lebron, Wade, Dirk & Amare that's your call... history tells me we're not winning any championships until we nab ourselves a franchise calibre talent... i'm not satisfied w/playoff runs, i want a championship... first thing we need to do in order to achieve that is to get a guy we can build around so we can get that championship.

i dunno about you guys, but when respected NBA executives w/a history of building successful NBA franchises like Rod Thorn & Donnie Walsh make their desire to achieve cap flexibility in 2010 sort of a big deal, i tend to put some value in their line of thinking.

Let's Address it again, maybe there were some students who were absent while school was in session...


Give this list another long hard look


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9031

That said, it is important to note that so much can happen between now and then. Over the course of two years, it is certainly possible that some of these names could sign extensions or choose not to exercise player options, etc. These names are by no means set in stone. Nonetheless, the sheer magnitude of exceptional players is astonishing.

So, let's break into a few categories. First up, let's start with the Stars whose contracts expire following the 2009-2010 season and will then become honest-to-goodness free agents:

Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobili
Marcus Camby
Tracey McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Brad Miller
Stephen Jackson
Jermaine O'Neal
Mike Miller
Rip Hamilton

The next grouping is those Players that are signed thru 2011, but can opt out in 2010 if they so choose:
Amare Stoudamire (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
LeBron James (owed 17.2 million in 10/11)
Dwayne Wade (owed 17.0 million in 10/11)
Chris Bosh (owed 17.1 million in 10/11)
Dirk Nowitzki (owed $21.5 million in 10/11)
Josh Howard (owed $11.8 million in 10/11)
Mike Redd (owed $18.3 million in 10/11)
Tyson Chandler (owed $12.8 million in 10/11)

This next list consists of Contracts that are set to expire in 2010, but the player may choose to opt-out following the 2008-2009 season:
Steve Nash (owed $13.1 million in 09-10)
Carlos Boozer (owed $12.7 million in 09-10)
Chris Paul (owed $6 million in 09-10 / almost certain to sign an extension before becoming unrestricted)
Memo Okur (owed $9.0 million in 09-10)
Hedo Turkoglu (owed $7.4 million in 09-10)


In addition to the superstars listed above, these 'Second-tier' players are set to hit the open market as well:
Ben Wallace
Larry Hughes
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Anderson Varejao (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Al Harrington
Darko Milicic
Udonis Haslem
Jamal Crawford (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Eddy Curry (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Amir Johnson
Derek Fisher
Raja Bell
T.J. Ford (player option - owed $8.5 million in 10/11)
Travis Outlaw
Bruce Bowen
Earl Watson
Luke Ridnour
Matt Harpring
Quentin Richardson
Damien Wilkins

We also must include the list of Players that will actually eventually have value due solely to the fact their contracts come off the books in the summer of 2010:
Jerome James (proof that Isiah Thomas knew what he was doing all along!)
Cuttino Mobley
Brendan Haywood
Tim Thomas
Brian Cardinal
Antonio Davis
Mark Blount
Bobby Simmons
Troy Hudson
Darius Miles
Kenny Thomas
Shareef Abdul-Rahim
Matt Bonner
Etan Thomas

Last, but not least, we have the 2006 Draft Class. These Players will all be restricted free-agents in 2010, if they haven't already been inked to extensions:
Brandon Roy
Rudy Gay
LaMarcus Aldridge
Andrea Bargnani
Rajon Rondo
Tyrus Thomas
Kyle Lowry
Randy Foye
Marcus Williams
Josh Boone
Renaldo Balkman
Sergio Rodriguez
Ronnie Brewer

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-20-2008 6:23 PM]

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-20-2008 6:31 PM]

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by joec32033:

TMS and True...I didn't say not to try to get him but making moves thinking we just are waiting for LeBron to arrive is wrong,imo. If we have any chance to get a young stud(like Carmelo) or build a team like the Pistons did9Get deals done for guys like Artes, Jermaine, Redd so that they are on the same team, I think we should do it.

i dunno how many times i gotta address the fact there's a lot more bigname's who will be available that year other than Lebron, but hey, your preference is your preference... i got no problems going after guys like JO or Artest (if u can get him on a MLE or reasonable contract) cuz that won't kill our cap flexibility.

as for the other guys, if you'd rather target 2nd & 3rd tier talent like Michael Redd, Baron Davis, etc. so we can make a run at a playoffs appearance than make moves to get cap flexibility in 2010 so we can target guys like Lebron, Wade, Dirk & Amare that's your call... history tells me we're not winning any championships until we nab ourselves a franchise calibre talent... i'm not satisfied w/playoff runs, i want a championship... first thing we need to do in order to achieve that is to get a guy we can build around so we can get that championship.

i dunno about you guys, but when respected NBA executives w/a history of building successful NBA franchises like Rod Thorn & Donnie Walsh make their desire to achieve cap flexibility in 2010 sort of a big deal, i tend to put some value in their line of thinking.

I keep talking about making sure LeBron is not our sole priority. Lebron is in a class above every other guy you mentioned. I would LOVE to get him. But building a team around LeBron is gonna be totally different than building a team around, say, Amare. That is my point. We actually have none of these guys. How can you have a team that is ready for LeBron to be plugged in OR say Amare, or whoever. You can't you have to know who you have. I really just don't like the idea of treading water another 3 years in the hopes the proverbial "Lotto Ticket" we are buying by clearing all this cap space happens to win.

I personally think the idea of acquiring as much actual talent (not Isiah-project-what the ****-talent-) and using it to trade for a first tier talent a la Garnett when we are ready to get that championship.

I am also all for getting Artest and JO. But both have HUGE question marks(JO-Injuries, Artest-The crazy). But right now that is a chance I will take because both of those guys may be able to be had for a song and dance and the payoff is huge and that is what we need.

What did the Kings want for Artest? That's right David Lee nothing has changed. What did Bird want for O'neal that's right Bynum, nothing has changed. If they could be had for a song and dance they'd have been traded by now. Plus when other teams covet these players it rises the stakes to acquire such a player.

Teams just off the top of my head that want/wanted Artest or were rumored to possibly prepare offers for him..

New York
Miami
Denver
Lakers
Clippers
Warriors
Cleveland

Teams just off the top of my head that want/wanted O'neal or were rumored to possibly prepare offers for him.

Lakers
New York
Nets
Boston
Raptors
Chicago
Mavericks
Phx


With this many teams interested in acquiring the services for such players means you aren't going to get them for a song and dance. Just because it appears so easy for us to match up salaries to consummate a deal in no way means these teams are going to accept offers like Malik and Nate 4 Artest or Zach for Artest or Marbury 4 Jermaine and 11.

If we work our cap efficiently, by utilizing the current assets to their maximum value who's to say we couldn't get 2 2nd tier stars in FA or via trade or 1 superstar and 1 2nd tier star or 3rd tier star 2-3yrs from now. Take for instance Washington, they traded for and/or signed for 3 2nd tier stars in the span of 3yrs Arenas(FA), Jamison(gave up a Top 5 pick Devin Harris), Butler(traded their #1 lottery pick 2001 and backup point guard let Hughes walk away for nothing). They were able to do this because they gave themselves flexibility. Now am I saying I want us to be the Wizards no not exactly but they have been more successful than we have the past 3-4yrs and you never know the impact acquiring similar caliber players can have for our franchise. Going all in on retreads, headcases, players on the backside of their careers is not really idea under any circumstance when we're probably officially rebuilding in 2010 anyway. Might as well prep right now for that time like all other teams that suck/sucked are doing.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-20-2008 11:26 PM]

By: Bill Ingram Last Updated: 6/22/08 5:05 PM ET


As we enter the week of the 2008 NBA Draft it's becoming clearer and clearer that the scene in New York will be a madhouse. David Stern's going to be much busier than usual as he works to stay on top of who's drafting which players and who's trading them where. Here are a few of the rumors that are dominating headlines as we head into Draft Week.

Heat Trading Wade Afterall?

Several weeks ago a rumor was floated that the Heat might trade Dwyane Wade to the Chicago Bulls, but that was quickly stamped out by Pat Riley and the Heat. Now, however, the rumor is beginning to take new shape and regain its life. The Bulls have been trying to find a taker for Tyrus Thomas, and the latest rumor has them sending him to Miami along with Larry Hughes and the first pick in the draft for Wade. How likely is it? It would seem to be more likely that the Heat draft Mayo to play alongside Wade, especially since they're in negotiations to keep Shawn Marion around long-term. That's not something you do if you're completely starting over with the top two picks in the draft.

Another rumor has the Lakers talking about sending Lamar Odom to Miami for Marion, hoping that Marion can teach the rest of the Lakers to play the kind of defense he did as a member of the Phoenix Suns. It would be unfortunate for Odom, but after a year his contract would come off the Heat's books and they could continue rebuilding in a serious way next summer. Marion would definitely look nice in Lakers purple.

Raptors After Diaw

As we've reported earlier in the week, the Raptors have expressed interest in Boris Diaw. The snag, as expected, is that the Suns don't want TJ Ford in return, and don't see what the Raptors have that would benefit them. Ford, for his part, wants to be a starter somewhere. That's not going to happen with Steve Nash in Phoenix. The Raptors are now looking for a third team to help make a Diaw trade happen, and Suns GM Steve Kerr has indicated he has moving Diaw as a high priority for the summer.

Josh Smith to Philly?

The word out of Atlanta is that they don't want to pay Josh Smith more than $11 per season, and given the fact that he's one of the up-and-coming young front court stars in the Eastern Conference you can count on that meaning Smith is finished as a Hawk. ESPN says Smith will land in Philly if the Hawks don't take care of business. It's hard to imagine the Hawks letting Smith walk just as they were starting to look like a playoff team again, but stranger things have happened.

Sonics on the Move?

No, not out of Seattle, but up in the draft - if they get their wish. The Sonics are reportedly sold on Jerryd Bayless if they wind up drafting at the fourth spot, but what they would really like to do is move up a spot or two and snag Michael Beasley. They're said to be offering Chris Wilcox as a means of moving up, and they're arguing that the Heat's real interest is in OJ Mayo, who would be available at the fourth spot.

And Finally . . .O'Neal to Cleveland?

Where there's smoke there's fire and there's so much smoke coming out of Cleveland that the whole city must be ablaze. What's circulating now is a rumor that involves as many as five teams in an effort to get either Michael Redd or Jermaine O'Neal to Cleveland. In either deal the Cavs wind up sending out Anderson Varejao and Wally Szczerbiak. There has also been talk that Varejao could end up in Oakland with the Warriors. The Cavs know they need another premier player next to LeBron James and they're working feverishly to make that happen.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by djsunyc:

Bucks Like LSU's Randolph At No. 8
Jun 22, 2008 9:29 PM EST

The Bucks are sending out strong signals that they would like to take LSU forward Anthony Randolph with the eighth pick in this week's NBA Draft, according to a report in The New York Daily News.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-23-2008 01:14 AM]

This is interesting because Andy Katz linked Alexander to them because for obvious reasons but mentioned he speaks Mandarin like Yi

Posted by TMS:

i don't think i would look at it as only treading water... personally i was resigned to stink for the next 2-3 years minimum regardless if Walsh was hired or not... the last thing i want to see happen is the Knicks giving in to more & more starphuch acquisitions that mess up our cap flexibility worse than it already is for players that aren't the kinda guys i'd wanna build around... we can make better use of these years to evaluate our younger players & draft picks if we have to, but the worst thing we can do is bring in guys like Baron Davis & Michael Redd just so we can eek out a playoff appearance... if u remember that's exactly the same thing Isiah did when he made the trade to acquire Marbury, Penny Hardaway & Tim Thomas... yeah sure, those moves helped us get back to the playoffs again... then what happened? we got completely embarassed by a much better team & got stuck w/immoveable contracts that severely hampered any ability we had to make other roster moves to improve after that... the team went straight downhill from there... do u wanna see that happen again? i sure don't... the Zach trade was just another repeat of that same mistake to try & eek out another playoff appearance w/no thought of longterm ramifications... at some point we need to learn from past mistakes, turn the page & try a different tactic... what we've been doing for the past decade definitely isn't working.