Posted by playa2:

Izybx, do you vote for Bill Clinton in 1996 ?

Do you think his wife will be different than him ?

Did you also vote for bush in 2000 or 2004 ?

If so do you believe McCain will be any different in policies than him in 2008?

Cmon man this ain't rocket scientist.

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by izybx:

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by izybx:

Its hard to be a Democrat. The Democratic party has put forward to undesirable candidates. On one hand you have Hillary Clinton, who alternates between telling lies and putting her foot in her mouth. And on the other hand you have Obama, a guy with little political experience and the most liberal voting record in the senate. How is this guy going to "change" anything when he has no record of cooperating with conservatives on anything? Does "change" mean ramming a liberal agenda that half the country doesnt believe in down our throats? Does "change" mean raising our taxes so that we can give the government more money to piss away on social programs that dont benefit working Americans?

The Mac is Back. A guy that finally represents independants that arent a slave to left wing socialists or right wing nut jobs. THE MAC IS BACK BABY!

Could you site Obama's voting record that suggests that he is the most Liberal in the Senate and unwilling to cooperate with those ideologically different from him?

And what exactly is the Liberal Agenda? You mean the opposite of the Conservative Agenda that spends billions on providing corporate welfare and making private contractors ridiculous amounts of money. Oh thats right godforbid the government spends money on things like Health Care and Education.

Its amazing that people are still hung up on these media manufacturered labels like Liberal. Liberal ideals are possessed by very few politicians in this country and rest assure they aren't going to be winning the Democratic nominee anytime soon. So don't worry crazy Comie Pinkos won't be running amuck in Washington.

A liberal agenda is one that runs counter to almost all of my beliefs. While I consider myself an independant, my political views fall mostly to the right. In do I really need to post Obamas voting record here? Are you really trying to didpute that he is extremely liberal, and that one some does attempt to rank senators he is ranked to one extreme? Bitty you follow politics, this isnt something that we need debate. I will ask you a question that we both DO NOT know the answer to. Can you the issues that Obama doesnt take the liberal side? Or is he a pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro tax the **** out of you and give it to people who dont work, anti gun, etc etc? Well here a couple votes. Maybe you agree with them?

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18967


Bitty, do you think the lack of Partisan bills supported by Obama suggests his unwillingness to compromise and work with others? I do

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/more_evidence_of_obamas_bipart.html

Maybe this is the guy for you. I know hes not the guy for me, and aside from cities on the coasts and college campuses, this guy is unelectable. The fact that he is a new face is a good thing. Im sure were all tired of the same windbags from powerful families running for office. This would have been a great year for the Democrats to put forward a good candidate with half a chance of winning. But Obama is going to get destroyed. The only way Barak wins in November of Mccain drops dead. THE MAC IS BACK!

You know your right we don't need to go down Obama's entire voting record. Because I guess McCain would be a good president if you consider the Constitution to be just another piece of paper, torture is pretty cool, and that the Rich need yet another tax break. So your right THE MAC IS BACK! But don't complain when you lose your house, can't afford to put gas in your car, and your pension disappears. Then again maybe you'll get real lucky and receive an all-expenses paid trip to Gitmo. GO McCAIN!

Um, you do know that Mccain is against torture right? You MIGHT wanna check the guy out!



And considering that the top 40% of income earners pay 99.6% of the income tax in this country, its pretty hard to give a tax cut without including them! And I dont have to worry about losing my house, because I didnt get a no money down loan on a http://MANSION. I save my money, and bust my hump to do it, so I dont want ANY of my tax dollars going to help people that made poor investments or bought a house that they cant afford. If you cant pay for your home, then SELL it and RENT. And if you want to talk about gas prices, Im sure Obama will convince the world to reduce demand and invade the middle east to increase supply, and then we can have cheap gas again. THE MAC IS BACK!

Posted by izybx:

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by izybx:

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by izybx:

Its hard to be a Democrat. The Democratic party has put forward to undesirable candidates. On one hand you have Hillary Clinton, who alternates between telling lies and putting her foot in her mouth. And on the other hand you have Obama, a guy with little political experience and the most liberal voting record in the senate. How is this guy going to "change" anything when he has no record of cooperating with conservatives on anything? Does "change" mean ramming a liberal agenda that half the country doesnt believe in down our throats? Does "change" mean raising our taxes so that we can give the government more money to piss away on social programs that dont benefit working Americans?

The Mac is Back. A guy that finally represents independants that arent a slave to left wing socialists or right wing nut jobs. THE MAC IS BACK BABY!

Could you site Obama's voting record that suggests that he is the most Liberal in the Senate and unwilling to cooperate with those ideologically different from him?

And what exactly is the Liberal Agenda? You mean the opposite of the Conservative Agenda that spends billions on providing corporate welfare and making private contractors ridiculous amounts of money. Oh thats right godforbid the government spends money on things like Health Care and Education.

Its amazing that people are still hung up on these media manufacturered labels like Liberal. Liberal ideals are possessed by very few politicians in this country and rest assure they aren't going to be winning the Democratic nominee anytime soon. So don't worry crazy Comie Pinkos won't be running amuck in Washington.

A liberal agenda is one that runs counter to almost all of my beliefs. While I consider myself an independant, my political views fall mostly to the right. In do I really need to post Obamas voting record here? Are you really trying to didpute that he is extremely liberal, and that one some does attempt to rank senators he is ranked to one extreme? Bitty you follow politics, this isnt something that we need debate. I will ask you a question that we both DO NOT know the answer to. Can you the issues that Obama doesnt take the liberal side? Or is he a pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro tax the **** out of you and give it to people who dont work, anti gun, etc etc? Well here a couple votes. Maybe you agree with them?

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18967


Bitty, do you think the lack of Partisan bills supported by Obama suggests his unwillingness to compromise and work with others? I do

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/more_evidence_of_obamas_bipart.html

Maybe this is the guy for you. I know hes not the guy for me, and aside from cities on the coasts and college campuses, this guy is unelectable. The fact that he is a new face is a good thing. Im sure were all tired of the same windbags from powerful families running for office. This would have been a great year for the Democrats to put forward a good candidate with half a chance of winning. But Obama is going to get destroyed. The only way Barak wins in November of Mccain drops dead. THE MAC IS BACK!

You know your right we don't need to go down Obama's entire voting record. Because I guess McCain would be a good president if you consider the Constitution to be just another piece of paper, torture is pretty cool, and that the Rich need yet another tax break. So your right THE MAC IS BACK! But don't complain when you lose your house, can't afford to put gas in your car, and your pension disappears. Then again maybe you'll get real lucky and receive an all-expenses paid trip to Gitmo. GO McCAIN!

Um, you do know that Mccain is against torture right? You MIGHT wanna check the guy out!



And considering that the top 40% of income earners pay 99.6% of the income tax in this country, its pretty hard to give a tax cut without including them! And I dont have to worry about losing my house, because I didnt get a no money down loan on a http://MANSION. I save my money, and bust my hump to do it, so I dont want ANY of my tax dollars going to help people that made poor investments or bought a house that they cant afford. If you cant pay for your home, then SELL it and RENT. And if you want to talk about gas prices, Im sure Obama will convince the world to reduce demand and invade the middle east to increase supply, and then we can have cheap gas again. THE MAC IS BACK!

izybx, while I will never tell you what to believe and challenge your own morality, you are grossly misinformed about the political reality of the 2008 election. Your sources are from ideologically partisan sources. For a nonbiased analysis of Obama's record go here: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/spectrum.xpd.

You will note that Obama is just next to Joe Lieberman - one of McCain's potential VP nominees. You can also note that Obama is incredibly bipartisan. Almost every bill he has introduced has had a Republican co-sponsor, including a bill he and McCain wrote together: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama#U.S._Senate_career

So please don't buy the "facts" from pundits and interested parties. It is so odd that Republicans are so ready to look past the trillions of dollars of debt this war has created when talking about the cost of 'taxes.' Where do you think this money comes from to pay for this trillion dollar disaster? For the same cost we could rebuild every school in America and provide universal health care to Americans and Iraqis alike.

Posted by izybx:

Bitty, it sounds to me that Mccain is for aggressive interrogations without resorting to torture. Do you disagree with that?

Posted by 4949:

It's gonna be real hard to smear McCain. This isn't going to be like John Kerry, where he let them run all over his war record. There's not going to be some vietnam group coming out to attack whether he was tortured or not. Everyone knows he was tortured and no way no one's gonna attack that.

And if anyone tries to compare him to Bush? Good luck. I'm no Republican, but I gotta say, I respect what's he's been through and the way he's conducted himself as a Senator all his career, and even before that. I'm just saying, if you plan on it, then lol.

McCain has both of what both other candidates don't have. Lot's of experience and accountability. And as far as attacking his age? Look at his mother. At 96 and still sharp as ever.

September 2007: McCain voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments. At the time, nearly 65% of people polled in a CNN poll indicted that “things are going either moderately badly or very badly in Iraq.

July 2007: McCain voted against a plan to drawdown troop levels in Iraq. At the time, an ABC poll found that 63% thought the invasion was not worth it, and a CBS News poll found that 72% of respondents wanted troops out within 2 years.

March 2007: McCain was too busy to vote on a bill that would require the start of a drawdown in troop levels within 120 days with a goal of withdrawing nearly all combat troops within one year. Around this time, an NBC News poll found that 55% of respondents indicated that the US goal of achieving victory in Iraq is not possible. This number has not moved significantly since then.

February 2007: For such a strong supporter of the escalation, McCain didn’t even bother to show up and vote against a resolution condemning it. However, at the time a CNN poll found that only 16% of respondents wanted to send more troops to Iraq (that number has since declined to around 10%), while 60% said that some or all should be withdrawn. This number has since gone up to around 70%.

June 2006: McCain voted against a resolution that Bush start withdrawing troops but with no timeline to do so.

May 2006: McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.

April 2006: McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.

March 2006: McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.

March 2004: McCain once again voted for abusive tax loopholes over veterans when he voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes. Jeez, McCain really loves those tax loopholes for corporations, since he voted for them over our veterans' needs.

October 2003: McCain voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000,000.

April 2003: McCain urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.

August 2001: McCain voted against increasing the amount available for medical care for veterans by $650,000,000. To his credit, he also voted against the 2001 Bush tax cuts, which he now supports making permanent, despite the dire financial condition this country is in, and despite the fact that he indicated in 2001 that these tax cuts unfairly benefited the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class.

Posted by Silverfuel:
Halliburton has moved to Dubai and Ford is manufacturing in Mexico.

Um, you do know that Mccain is against torture right? You MIGHT wanna check the guy out!

Its about the flip flopping on the topic. One minute he's strenuously against torture then but will not stand up to Bush when he advocates for it.

The thing I don't like about Hilary Clinton regarding the Michigan and Florida vote is that she specifically agreed that those votes would not count.

You will note that Obama is just next to Joe Lieberman - one of McCain's potential VP nominees.

It's gonna be real hard to smear McCain. This isn't going to be like John Kerry, where he let them run all over his war record.

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by 4949:

It's gonna be real hard to smear McCain. This isn't going to be like John Kerry, where he let them run all over his war record. There's not going to be some vietnam group coming out to attack whether he was tortured or not. Everyone knows he was tortured and no way no one's gonna attack that.

And if anyone tries to compare him to Bush? Good luck. I'm no Republican, but I gotta say, I respect what's he's been through and the way he's conducted himself as a Senator all his career, and even before that. I'm just saying, if you plan on it, then lol.

McCain has both of what both other candidates don't have. Lot's of experience and accountability. And as far as attacking his age? Look at his mother. At 96 and still sharp as ever.

McCain talks a bit military game but doesn't back it up. Its great that he has his own service but what kind of support is giving the current troops:

September 2007: McCain voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments. At the time, nearly 65% of people polled in a CNN poll indicted that “things are going either moderately badly or very badly in Iraq.

July 2007: McCain voted against a plan to drawdown troop levels in Iraq. At the time, an ABC poll found that 63% thought the invasion was not worth it, and a CBS News poll found that 72% of respondents wanted troops out within 2 years.

March 2007: McCain was too busy to vote on a bill that would require the start of a drawdown in troop levels within 120 days with a goal of withdrawing nearly all combat troops within one year. Around this time, an NBC News poll found that 55% of respondents indicated that the US goal of achieving victory in Iraq is not possible. This number has not moved significantly since then.

February 2007: For such a strong supporter of the escalation, McCain didn’t even bother to show up and vote against a resolution condemning it. However, at the time a CNN poll found that only 16% of respondents wanted to send more troops to Iraq (that number has since declined to around 10%), while 60% said that some or all should be withdrawn. This number has since gone up to around 70%.

June 2006: McCain voted against a resolution that Bush start withdrawing troops but with no timeline to do so.

May 2006: McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.

April 2006: McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.

March 2006: McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.

March 2004: McCain once again voted for abusive tax loopholes over veterans when he voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes. Jeez, McCain really loves those tax loopholes for corporations, since he voted for them over our veterans' needs.

October 2003: McCain voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000,000.

April 2003: McCain urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.

August 2001: McCain voted against increasing the amount available for medical care for veterans by $650,000,000. To his credit, he also voted against the 2001 Bush tax cuts, which he now supports making permanent, despite the dire financial condition this country is in, and despite the fact that he indicated in 2001 that these tax cuts unfairly benefited the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class.

Yea 4949 your right he is unstoppable!

[Edited by - bitty41 on 06-02-2008 4:25 PM]