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THANK YOU I SAY UGH FOR NOT TANKING EARLIER
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Cosmic
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Joined: 3/17/2006
Member: #1115
USA
5/21/2008  8:36 AM
Posted by 4949:



The thing is though, many here had their hearts so set on acquiring the top two picks, that we probably forced it the end of the line. In chicago, it was never even mentioned as a dream to acquire such a high pick.

I think New York has too much negative energy (in areas that require calm) and we end up doing ourselves in. But we are also highly competitive and the overall success shows.

I've got no problem with people having their hearts set on a top 2 pick --- and having the notion that if we didn't get there that we failed for this draft --- and that a few more losses might have gotten us there. That's fine, that's their opinion, even though every draft has gems beyond there.


Further, and I've said this before just to have it ignored by a suspect few who simply have an agenda to attack people regardless, it's not the tanking nor the idea of tanking that ever annoyed me.

Here's what I posted on another forum last night in regards to my stance and those who get unnerved by it to the point of resorting to personal attacks:

******

Soooooo...what wins do you target as the ones that did it? Novembers? Decembers? When do you start losing? You think the team was going to go winless from the moment you or anyone else felt "know what, we're done, it might be in the team's best interests to lose out and gain some ping pong balls."???? When?

See, that opinion isn't even the one I have a problem with, the opinion I have a problem with is those that crapped all over the team when they won, crapped on the players who had good games in those wins, then attacked the posters who refused to bash the team for winning, and then now blame those fans for winding up 6th in the lotto.

That's the problem....and it's a rather pointless attitude to have towards fellow fans, IMO.


***********

If that doesn't make sense to some who read it I can't help that....
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AUTOADVERT
Cosmic
Posts: 26570
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USA
5/21/2008  8:43 AM
Posted by oohah:

Thank You for pointing out why rooting for losses is retarded Cosmic.

If the point of the game is to win, then you play to win. Losing takes care of itself. As the Bulls proved and the Blazers before them, the Raptors as well, landing #1 picks takes care of itself too. It's a lottery!

I think it was Sebstar and myself who made the argument last year: If you are rooting for losses for some outcome like a #1 lottery pick, At what time do you start rooting for the team to win?

When you finally get the number #1 and land Ewing? But what if Ewing is Barnagni?

When you trade for Kobe? But what if your Kobe is actually McGrady?

***

I guess it only makes sense to root for our team when they are contending. That means you can only root once or twice a decade for fans of most teams.

***

That shytty tanking the Knicks did late this season made me apathetic. I did not care if they won or lost because they were not trying to win and they showed no pride. Not that I rooted against them because once you do that you are no longer a fan. And I am still a fan. But I have trouble caring whether the team wins if the team itself does not care.

And guess what? A #1 pick, a flashy pickup at coach, or a new GM can't cure that problem.

P.S. This draft lottery was a win/win for the non-fans who advocated tanking. If the Knicks had gotten the #1/#2 they say: "See? this is what tanking gets you: A number 1!"

And since the Knicks got a mid-lottery pick, they get to bitch that the Knicks didn't tank enough.

They just want something to post about, they really are not fans.

oohah


Pretty much nailed it. And like I say these same people, few in number, seem like they're just waiting for or hoping for the next screw up so they can continue the march of "we suck, told ya, morons, god I know everything, you morons." Hoping we pick a bust - or make a bad trade - or have a terrible season so they can just crap on the team and the fans. Isn't that the definition of trolling? But whatever makes them happy I guess lol.

There's now people who want to tank all of next season just because we have that pick given that we must give Utah the 2010 pick. So, as you said, when do you start rooting for the team to win? Never? People that think that way just don't come across as fans let alone die hard fans no matter what they say to the contrary. Their personal attacks of those who disagree with them underscores that fact.


As to losing in an attempt to position yourself higher in the lotto....I don't like it but I don't have a problem with that all the same. I outlined the issue I have in the post above this one in regards to those who feel that way. The personal attacks are the most pathetic and illogical part of it all.

People like that can go to hell.


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4949
Posts: 29378
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USA
5/21/2008  8:54 AM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by 4949:



The thing is though, many here had their hearts so set on acquiring the top two picks, that we probably forced it the end of the line. In chicago, it was never even mentioned as a dream to acquire such a high pick.

I think New York has too much negative energy (in areas that require calm) and we end up doing ourselves in. But we are also highly competitive and the overall success shows.

I've got no problem with people having their hearts set on a top 2 pick --- and having the notion that if we didn't get there that we failed for this draft --- and that a few more losses might have gotten us there. That's fine, that's their opinion, even though every draft has gems beyond there.


Further, and I've said this before just to have it ignored by a suspect few who simply have an agenda to attack people regardless, it's not the tanking nor the idea of tanking that ever annoyed me.

Here's what I posted on another forum last night in regards to my stance and those who get unnerved by it to the point of resorting to personal attacks:

******

Soooooo...what wins do you target as the ones that did it? Novembers? Decembers? When do you start losing? You think the team was going to go winless from the moment you or anyone else felt "know what, we're done, it might be in the team's best interests to lose out and gain some ping pong balls."???? When?

See, that opinion isn't even the one I have a problem with, the opinion I have a problem with is those that crapped all over the team when they won, crapped on the players who had good games in those wins, then attacked the posters who refused to bash the team for winning, and then now blame those fans for winding up 6th in the lotto.

That's the problem....and it's a rather pointless attitude to have towards fellow fans, IMO.


***********

If that doesn't make sense to some who read it I can't help that....

I'm afraid chicago isiah taught many well, to be even more negative then ever. I"m fighting it myself. Just try to preach rationality and keep your head. And whenever something comes up, something happens that you where right about' then celebrate and let everyone know that you brought it up and that you were right about it. It makes up for all of the negativeness. Even if you get clobbered for it, stand your ground!

My stance on winning and not winning is 'you lose the games that need losing in the heat of top draft picks, just as you would have to win the games that need winning, when you are in the heat of the playoffs'.

Plain and simple to me.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
Posts: 29378
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Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
5/21/2008  9:00 AM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by oohah:

Thank You for pointing out why rooting for losses is retarded Cosmic.

If the point of the game is to win, then you play to win. Losing takes care of itself. As the Bulls proved and the Blazers before them, the Raptors as well, landing #1 picks takes care of itself too. It's a lottery!

I think it was Sebstar and myself who made the argument last year: If you are rooting for losses for some outcome like a #1 lottery pick, At what time do you start rooting for the team to win?

When you finally get the number #1 and land Ewing? But what if Ewing is Barnagni?

When you trade for Kobe? But what if your Kobe is actually McGrady?

***

I guess it only makes sense to root for our team when they are contending. That means you can only root once or twice a decade for fans of most teams.

***

That shytty tanking the Knicks did late this season made me apathetic. I did not care if they won or lost because they were not trying to win and they showed no pride. Not that I rooted against them because once you do that you are no longer a fan. And I am still a fan. But I have trouble caring whether the team wins if the team itself does not care.

And guess what? A #1 pick, a flashy pickup at coach, or a new GM can't cure that problem.

P.S. This draft lottery was a win/win for the non-fans who advocated tanking. If the Knicks had gotten the #1/#2 they say: "See? this is what tanking gets you: A number 1!"

And since the Knicks got a mid-lottery pick, they get to bitch that the Knicks didn't tank enough.

They just want something to post about, they really are not fans.

oohah


Pretty much nailed it. And like I say these same people, few in number, seem like they're just waiting for or hoping for the next screw up so they can continue the march of "we suck, told ya, morons, god I know everything, you morons." Hoping we pick a bust - or make a bad trade - or have a terrible season so they can just crap on the team and the fans. Isn't that the definition of trolling? But whatever makes them happy I guess lol.

There's now people who want to tank all of next season just because we have that pick given that we must give Utah the 2010 pick. So, as you said, when do you start rooting for the team to win? Never? People that think that way just don't come across as fans let alone die hard fans no matter what they say to the contrary. Their personal attacks of those who disagree with them underscores that fact.


As to losing in an attempt to position yourself higher in the lotto....I don't like it but I don't have a problem with that all the same. I outlined the issue I have in the post above this one in regards to those who feel that way. The personal attacks are the most pathetic and illogical part of it all.

People like that can go to hell.

To tell you the truth, I for one don't wanna have to go through this kind of **** again! I would rather the team show what it has next two seasons, try to win some mediocre seasons and get ready for the much bigger catch in a few years. LeBron and maybe even Paul.
I'll never trust this' team again.
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
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Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
5/21/2008  10:34 AM
i'm deeply disturbed by all the anti-bargnani rhetoric going on in this forum.
it's almost like you guys know nothing about basketball...
islesfan
Posts: 9999
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Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
5/21/2008  11:48 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm deeply disturbed by all the anti-bargnani rhetoric going on in this forum.
it's almost like you guys know nothing about basketball...

They don't. And they're not real Knicks fans anyway. If they were, they wouldn't have been so admittedly apathetic about this team.

They would have cared about losing as many games as possible in order to improve their lottery chances. It doesn't guarantee anything obviously but it's always the smart thing to do. Championship coaches like Gregg Popovich and Pat Riley have done it but I guess the people on this board, who oppose this simple concept, know better than they do.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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Joined: 9/20/2006
Member: #1172

5/21/2008  12:04 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm deeply disturbed by all the anti-bargnani rhetoric going on in this forum.
it's almost like you guys know nothing about basketball...

They don't. And they're not real Knicks fans anyway. If they were, they wouldn't have been so admittedly apathetic about this team.

They would have cared about losing as many games as possible in order to improve their lottery chances. It doesn't guarantee anything obviously but it's always the smart thing to do. Championship coaches like Gregg Popovich and Pat Riley have done it but I guess the people on this board, who oppose this simple concept, know better than they do.


Yeah oohah tried to point all the times it failed but failed to point out the times it worked. The whole point of the lottery is to increase your chances as you stated. If we would have landed a Top 4 pick or better everyone would shooting their loads all over the place. We should have finished with a worse record than Minny, Memphis, heck even Seattle. How about how things worked for Cleveland, Houston, Orlando, Atl(if they would have selected correctly)?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-21-2008 11:05 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
crzymdups
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Member: #671
USA
5/21/2008  12:09 PM
the bottom line is there isn't one single way to build teams - you just have to maximize whatever assets you have. Detroit signed a Finals MVP with the MLE. you just have to be smart, whatever way you build.
¿ △ ?
TrueBlue
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5/21/2008  12:16 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

the bottom line is there isn't one single way to build teams - you just have to maximize whatever assets you have. Detroit signed a Finals MVP with the MLE. you just have to be smart, whatever way you build.

Detroit is the exception. Look at the champions from the past we've created a discussion about this before. Tons of champions/title contenders came from teams with a Top 5 pick player on their club.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
THANK YOU I SAY UGH FOR NOT TANKING EARLIER

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