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Other than Berman, is there any national or local reporter who thinks this is a good hire?
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Erniecat
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5/12/2008  11:07 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by CrushAlot:

I am trying to find someone to convince me that this is a good move with reasons to back up their words. I liked the Beck article and I hadn't read it before. I have not seen anything else of any substance and that is why the post was started. I have posted many times over why I don't like the move and I have given reasons.

You gotta be kidding. The Knicks... the New York friggin' Knicks... the broken franchise just hired one of the most successful coaches in the NBA.

Point 1 - We didn't deserve this guy. Its amazing that we were able to lure a coach with legit cred. Previously we were considering broadcasters.

Point 5 - Recruiting. If we want to pull some miracle, rabbit out of the hat signing, we've got a much better chance of doing it today than we did with anyone else. Coach Mike has a lot of fans among players in the NBA.

Two excellent points. D'Antoni and Phil are the two coaches players want to play for the most. He will help attract good players, and maybe will help us land a true stud in a couple of years.

I love Mark Jackson as much as any NYer, but anyone who says he'd rather hire him than D'Antoni is kidding themsleves.
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PresIke
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5/12/2008  11:16 PM
D'Antoni is one of THE most popular coaches to play for. After being literally the least desirable place to play outside of Utah, Milwakee or Minnesota (I'm speculating here, btw), this is certainly something that can be of help if Walsh hopes to sign free agents within the next few seasons.

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-12-2008 11:17 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
islesfan
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5/13/2008  12:05 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by CrushAlot:

I am trying to find someone to convince me that this is a good move with reasons to back up their words. I liked the Beck article and I hadn't read it before. I have not seen anything else of any substance and that is why the post was started. I have posted many times over why I don't like the move and I have given reasons.

You gotta be kidding. The Knicks... the New York friggin' Knicks... the broken franchise just hired one of the most successful coaches in the NBA.

Point 1 - We didn't deserve this guy. Its amazing that we were able to lure a coach with legit cred. Previously we were considering broadcasters.

Point 2 - We have a philosophy. I repeat, we have a philosophy. Under Isiah all we have done on this board is debate which direction of several the team should take.

Point 3 - If we stink, we'd better be exciting. Mike D is an offensive genius and will make this team at least look the part of a basketball team.

Point 4 - How many games did we lose in late game situations the last few years? Mike D has at least the potential to change that.

Point 5 - Recruiting. If we want to pull some miracle, rabbit out of the hat signing, we've got a much better chance of doing it today than we did with anyone else. Coach Mike has a lot of fans among players in the NBA.

P

Point 1 - You're right, we don't deserve this. He came for the money, what's so amazing about that?

Point 2 - We have a philosophy that couldn't get past the conference finals with the perfect players. How can anybody expect it to do even that much with lesser players?

Point 3 - If we stink, who the hell cares if they're "exciting"? And how exactly can you stink and be exciting at the same time? I'm talking for real fans, not the brain dead, just happy to be here crowds that infested the Garden for most of last season.

Point 4 - Mike D'Antoni's Suns teams, despite averaging 58 wins in the regular season, were terrible in close games. Let me repeat that: Mike D'Antoni's teams were terrible in close games. That's when coaching, defense and half court execution decide games. D'Antoni falls painfully short in all of those things. Not coincidentally, those things are what matter come playoff time and it's no surprise that D'Antoni's teams consistently underachieve considering their gaudy regular season win totals.

Point 5 - The Suns best players were already in place when D'Antoni got there. Who did D'Antoni attract exactly? A washed up Grant Hill? If anything, D'Antoni was a big reason why 2 of the Suns best players wanted out of Phoenix. Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion couldn't wait to leave the Valley of the Sun.

Point 4 again - Mike D'Antoni's teams were not good in close games. Run and gun hides flaws. In close games and in the playoffs those flaws become very evident. It's not a a coincidence that D'Antoni's teams aren't nearly as successful in close games or in the playoffs. This shouldn't be but is constantly being ignored.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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5/13/2008  12:16 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by CrushAlot:

I am trying to find someone to convince me that this is a good move with reasons to back up their words. I liked the Beck article and I hadn't read it before. I have not seen anything else of any substance and that is why the post was started. I have posted many times over why I don't like the move and I have given reasons.

You gotta be kidding. The Knicks... the New York friggin' Knicks... the broken franchise just hired one of the most successful coaches in the NBA.

Point 1 - We didn't deserve this guy. Its amazing that we were able to lure a coach with legit cred. Previously we were considering broadcasters.

Point 2 - We have a philosophy. I repeat, we have a philosophy. Under Isiah all we have done on this board is debate which direction of several the team should take.

Point 3 - If we stink, we'd better be exciting. Mike D is an offensive genius and will make this team at least look the part of a basketball team.

Point 4 - How many games did we lose in late game situations the last few years? Mike D has at least the potential to change that.

Point 5 - Recruiting. If we want to pull some miracle, rabbit out of the hat signing, we've got a much better chance of doing it today than we did with anyone else. Coach Mike has a lot of fans among players in the NBA.

P

Point 1 - You're right, we don't deserve this. He came for the money, what's so amazing about that?

Point 2 - We have a philosophy that couldn't get past the conference finals with the perfect players. How can anybody expect it to do even that much with lesser players?

Point 3 - If we stink, who the hell cares if they're "exciting"? And how exactly can you stink and be exciting at the same time? I'm talking for real fans, not the brain dead, just happy to be here crowds that infested the Garden for most of last season.

Point 4 - Mike D'Antoni's Suns teams, despite averaging 58 wins in the regular season, were terrible in close games. Let me repeat that: Mike D'Antoni's teams were terrible in close games. That's when coaching, defense and half court execution decide games. D'Antoni falls painfully short in all of those things. Not coincidentally, those things are what matter come playoff time and it's no surprise that D'Antoni's teams consistently underachieve considering their gaudy regular season win totals.

Point 5 - The Suns best players were already in place when D'Antoni got there. Who did D'Antoni attract exactly? A washed up Grant Hill? If anything, D'Antoni was a big reason why 2 of the Suns best players wanted out of Phoenix. Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion couldn't wait to leave the Valley of the Sun.

Point 4 again - Mike D'Antoni's teams were not good in close games. Run and gun hides flaws. In close games and in the playoffs those flaws become very evident. It's not a a coincidence that D'Antoni's teams aren't nearly as successful in close games or in the playoffs. This shouldn't be but is constantly being ignored.


Isles I'm not trying to piggy but most of what you say I'm in agreement, but I think the strongest point in your post is Point #5. Never thought of that myself but since you mentioned it, Amare took jabs at D'Antoni upon leaving.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-12-2008 11:16 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
JohnWallace44
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5/13/2008  12:18 AM
Isles,
The players the D'Antoni had at his disposal in Phoenix should have been better.

Nate should have been on the Suns if they weren't so frugal. Think they could have used offense off the bench in this last series?

They got Grant Hill to sign for nothing. Think we could have done something like that?

Who really underachieved under D'Antoni? Q is terrible since leaving, Marion looked bad on the Heat, part of that is Nash, but you've got to give a lot of credit to Mike.


The biggest thing that baffles me is that I don't see who was the alternative. There was no better, more qualified coach that we could have attracted. Especially one that could command some respect right away.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
TrueBlue
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5/13/2008  12:20 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Isles,
The players the D'Antoni had at his disposal in Phoenix should have been better.

Nate should have been on the Suns if they weren't so frugal. Think they could have used offense off the bench in this last series?

They got Grant Hill to sign for nothing. Think we could have done something like that?

Who really underachieved under D'Antoni? Q is terrible since leaving, Marion looked bad on the Heat, part of that is Nash, but you've got to give a lot of credit to Mike.


The biggest thing that baffles me is that I don't see who was the alternative. There was no better, more qualified coach that we could have attracted. Especially one that could command some respect right away.

Nate wouldn't have been any more effective than Barbosa. Does Nate play D?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
JohnWallace44
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5/13/2008  12:27 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Isles,
The players the D'Antoni had at his disposal in Phoenix should have been better.

Nate should have been on the Suns if they weren't so frugal. Think they could have used offense off the bench in this last series?

They got Grant Hill to sign for nothing. Think we could have done something like that?

Who really underachieved under D'Antoni? Q is terrible since leaving, Marion looked bad on the Heat, part of that is Nash, but you've got to give a lot of credit to Mike.


The biggest thing that baffles me is that I don't see who was the alternative. There was no better, more qualified coach that we could have attracted. Especially one that could command some respect right away.

Nate wouldn't have been any more effective than Barbosa. Does Nate play D?

Nate's just an example. They gave away picks for a while like they were going out of style.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
islesfan
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5/13/2008  12:34 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Isles,
The players the D'Antoni had at his disposal in Phoenix should have been better.

Who really underachieved under D'Antoni?

Huh?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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5/13/2008  12:40 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Isles,
The players the D'Antoni had at his disposal in Phoenix should have been better.

Nate should have been on the Suns if they weren't so frugal. Think they could have used offense off the bench in this last series?

They got Grant Hill to sign for nothing. Think we could have done something like that?

Who really underachieved under D'Antoni? Q is terrible since leaving, Marion looked bad on the Heat, part of that is Nash, but you've got to give a lot of credit to Mike.


The biggest thing that baffles me is that I don't see who was the alternative. There was no better, more qualified coach that we could have attracted. Especially one that could command some respect right away.

I doubt the Suns would have picked Nate but even if they had, he would have driven a veteran team like that crazy and would likely be banished to the D League.

Grant Hill was looking for an easy ring by latching on to any contender who would have him. Let's be honest about his situation and not pretend that Hill would love to play for the Knicks the next couple of years because D'Antoni is here.

I give most of the credit to Nash for making players look good. You want to give some credit to D'Antoni's system that allows players to rack up numbers? Sure, why not. It doesn't necessarily make them better players though.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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5/13/2008  12:50 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

The biggest thing that baffles me is that I don't see who was the alternative. There was no better, more qualified coach that we could have attracted. Especially one that could command some respect right away.

If it was just about being qualified and being able to command respect right away for having achieved what D'Antoni has achieved then Avery Johnson is the obvious alternative. He's achieved more than D'Antoni by making it to the Finals and he beat D'Antoni's Suns to get there.

Personally, I don't think he would have been a great choice but he certainly would have been better than D'Antoni. At least Johnson would have instilled the fundamentals of defense and half court offense in the players. With a foundation like that, the Knicks wouldn't be completely screwed when Johnson leaves, the way they will be when D'Antoni leaves. The Knicks will be stuck with a roster filled with run and gun players and looking at another rebuild.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
GKFv2
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5/13/2008  12:58 AM
Nearly everyone around the league is baffled by this hire.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
PhilinLA
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5/13/2008  1:04 AM
Who does everyone around the league think the Knicks should have hired. And are generalizations dressed up as social proof at all meaningful?
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
nyk4ever
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5/13/2008  1:05 AM
Posted by GKFv2:

Nearly everyone around the league is baffled by this hire.

What you fail to mention is that when most people have disagreed with this move it is because they are basing their decision on the fact that the roster doesn't fit the coach.

Well thats a stupid reason to base your decision on since Donnie said he planned to gut the roster anyways.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
crzymdups
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5/13/2008  1:21 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by GKFv2:

Nearly everyone around the league is baffled by this hire.

What you fail to mention is that when most people have disagreed with this move it is because they are basing their decision on the fact that the roster doesn't fit the coach.

Well thats a stupid reason to base your decision on since Donnie said he planned to gut the roster anyways.

It is stupid to be against the signing if you think it has anything to do with the current roster.

The reasons some of us were against it - AGAIN - is that it is another short cut to rebuilding. Look at the rumor Mitch Lawrence is reporting, that may only be a rumor, but it's certainly indicative of how I fear things will probably go with D'Antoni. He's saying D'Antoni will want to trade Marbury's expiring deal for Diaw and Barbosa. Diaw and Barbosa are fine players, but they shouldn't be starting in this league. Their combined contracts start at $15 million and run for the next four years until 2012. That's basically the equivalent of trading Marbury for another Zach Randolph, cap-wise. It's exactly like when Layden traded Glen Rice for Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley - two good bench players, but bench players who were overpaid and became useless halfway thru their contracts. Diaw and Barbosa fill roles that we cannot possibly afford to pay for at this rate and maintain cap flexibility. The smart thing would be to have Balkman and Nate fill the Diaw/Barbosa roles for much much less money.

People who were against D'Antoni are just against the philosophy of trying to buy our way out of this mess. If Marbury is indeed traded for cap-killing contracts like Diaw and Barbosa it's yet another sign that nothing at all has changed.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 13-05-2008 01:22 AM]
¿ △ ?
JohnWallace44
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5/13/2008  1:31 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Isles,
The players the D'Antoni had at his disposal in Phoenix should have been better.

Who really underachieved under D'Antoni?

Huh?

Phoenix dumped picks bro - he should have had a better bench to work with than he did in this past season.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
islesfan
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5/13/2008  1:34 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Isles,
The players the D'Antoni had at his disposal in Phoenix should have been better.

Who really underachieved under D'Antoni?

Huh?

Phoenix dumped picks bro - he should have had a better bench to work with than he did in this past season.

And? What about those years when the Suns had a strong bench but still came up way short under D'Antoni?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
JohnWallace44
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5/13/2008  1:55 AM
Isles - his teams had a chance, and a good one.

I've never understood the argument where you have to wait and wait for your chance at a guaranteed championship and nothing else is good. When does that ever happen? Look at the Celts, they thought they had it wrapped.

Mike D ran a very good Suns team for years with different rosters. They had a chance at a championship multiple times. He's not good enough for you?

Who's good enough? Phil and Riles? You go ahead and wait for those guys to come along at the same time that James and Oden simultaniously sign here. I'll take my chances with Mike D.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
martin
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5/13/2008  10:34 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by CrushAlot:

I am trying to find someone to convince me that this is a good move with reasons to back up their words. I liked the Beck article and I hadn't read it before. I have not seen anything else of any substance and that is why the post was started. I have posted many times over why I don't like the move and I have given reasons.

You gotta be kidding. The Knicks... the New York friggin' Knicks... the broken franchise just hired one of the most successful coaches in the NBA.

Point 1 - We didn't deserve this guy. Its amazing that we were able to lure a coach with legit cred. Previously we were considering broadcasters.

Point 2 - We have a philosophy. I repeat, we have a philosophy. Under Isiah all we have done on this board is debate which direction of several the team should take.

Point 3 - If we stink, we'd better be exciting. Mike D is an offensive genius and will make this team at least look the part of a basketball team.

Point 4 - How many games did we lose in late game situations the last few years? Mike D has at least the potential to change that.

Point 5 - Recruiting. If we want to pull some miracle, rabbit out of the hat signing, we've got a much better chance of doing it today than we did with anyone else. Coach Mike has a lot of fans among players in the NBA.

P

Point 1 - You're right, we don't deserve this. He came for the money, what's so amazing about that?

Point 2 - We have a philosophy that couldn't get past the conference finals with the perfect players. How can anybody expect it to do even that much with lesser players?

Point 3 - If we stink, who the hell cares if they're "exciting"? And how exactly can you stink and be exciting at the same time? I'm talking for real fans, not the brain dead, just happy to be here crowds that infested the Garden for most of last season.

Point 4 - Mike D'Antoni's Suns teams, despite averaging 58 wins in the regular season, were terrible in close games. Let me repeat that: Mike D'Antoni's teams were terrible in close games. That's when coaching, defense and half court execution decide games. D'Antoni falls painfully short in all of those things. Not coincidentally, those things are what matter come playoff time and it's no surprise that D'Antoni's teams consistently underachieve considering their gaudy regular season win totals.

Point 5 - The Suns best players were already in place when D'Antoni got there. Who did D'Antoni attract exactly? A washed up Grant Hill? If anything, D'Antoni was a big reason why 2 of the Suns best players wanted out of Phoenix. Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion couldn't wait to leave the Valley of the Sun.

Point 4 again - Mike D'Antoni's teams were not good in close games. Run and gun hides flaws. In close games and in the playoffs those flaws become very evident. It's not a a coincidence that D'Antoni's teams aren't nearly as successful in close games or in the playoffs. This shouldn't be but is constantly being ignored.


Isles I'm not trying to piggy but most of what you say I'm in agreement, but I think the strongest point in your post is Point #5. Never thought of that myself but since you mentioned it, Amare took jabs at D'Antoni upon leaving.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-12-2008 11:16 PM]

Joe Johnson and Marion wanted out of PHO cause of contract reasons not D'Antoni.
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djsunyc
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5/13/2008  10:39 AM
what i've learned to do over the past few years is compeletely ignore anything said in the media.

at the end of the day, it's all about what d'antoni does with the knicks.

i like what d'antoni did with phoenix and i appreciate the vision of colangelo to implement that system in the first place. we will all find out how good a coach d'antoni is in ny. he has something to prove as well.

the only thing i definitely know is that stern is doing everything in his power to return the knicks to respectability. yes, it's a shame he had to step in and basically tell dolan what to do, but at least dolan is listening this time.

regardless of who the coach is, the team must change alot of it's personnel and the most important position that must be filled is point guard.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-13-2008 10:40 AM]
nyk4ever
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5/13/2008  10:48 AM
DJ.. are you any closer to being a Knick fan again?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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Other than Berman, is there any national or local reporter who thinks this is a good hire?
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