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OT: Sean Bell shooting verdict
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EwingsGlass
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4/25/2008  3:42 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by EnySpree:

Not racist.....police brutality.

No it is racist. This NEVER happens to white people. We need to be clear on what racism means. If a law is structured in a way, that punishes a certain ethnic group more for that crime, when all available data shows that another ethnic group commits said crime more often, than thats a racist law. The person who drafted it and the people who voted it dont have to be racists, its impact, its outcomes are racist. This is called institutional racismhttp://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/1003.pdf.

Cops police a whole city, and I have never heard of 1 time the police shot an unarmed white guy or group of guys because they thought they had a gun. Because a black person pulled the trigger doesn't make the action any less based on racial stereotypes. It was racist. Police brutality is racist. ENY do you think the police are doing what they do in white communities. Even many black and latin police officers complain about it.

Why do they always see a gun where there is none?

So rape laws should be abandoned as sexist?
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izybx
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4/25/2008  4:00 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by EnySpree:

Not racist.....police brutality.

No it is racist. This NEVER happens to white people. We need to be clear on what racism means. If a law is structured in a way, that punishes a certain ethnic group more for that crime, when all available data shows that another ethnic group commits said crime more often, than thats a racist law. The person who drafted it and the people who voted it dont have to be racists, its impact, its outcomes are racist. This is called institutional racismhttp://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/1003.pdf.

Cops police a whole city, and I have never heard of 1 time the police shot an unarmed white guy or group of guys because they thought they had a gun. Because a black person pulled the trigger doesn't make the action any less based on racial stereotypes. It was racist. Police brutality is racist. ENY do you think the police are doing what they do in white communities. Even many black and latin police officers complain about it.

Why do they always see a gun where there is none?

Police are aggresive in high crime areas. I dont think that the amount of police and the level of discretion they are told to have is determined by the race of the locals. I happen to be a cop in the south bronx. Ive been accused many times of being racist. Let me ask you Killa, am I a racist if someone gets shot on 138st and Willis avenue and the shooter is described as a male black wearing a black sweatshirt, a black hat, blue jeans and black sneakers so I search people who fit their description in the general area? Should I let them pass for fear of appearing to be racially insensitive? Well the above happened a couple weeks ago and Im willing to bet that there are about 10 young black men who wonder why they were stopped for "no reason".

Im not doubting there are racists in the police force. Ive met some, and I can tell you that noone wants to work with them. My unit is diverse, about 40% hispanic (myself included) and 30% black, plus an asian guy. I know these men and women well, and Ill tell you that no one takes any police action on the basis of race. That being said, we are accused every day for making stops "because Im black/dominican/puertorican". There are so many actual racist things that are going on in this country, that it annoys me that the word is thrown out there so much. Racist cops, racist laws, racist policies, etc etc. The word is being cheapened.

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izybx
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4/25/2008  4:06 PM
Posted by playa2:
Posted by K22:
Posted by EnySpree:

Black people worldwide my brother.

Agreed. Though you gotta point a finger at the Bell's sides lawyers too, they did a really bad job in this thing.

Hopefully, the inevitable backlash doesn't get ugly.

The prosecutions case was weak, and a jury was not involved. A jury can rule based on emotion, personal bias and tie that in with the facts.

The brilliant PBA lawyers were savy enough to leave their fate in the hands of a judge who will not be swayed one way or another and call it based on the facts.

THATS EXACTLY WHAT A JURY IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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newyorknewyork
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4/25/2008  4:15 PM
Cops become brain washed when they are done with there police training. It doesn't matter what race they are. When they become cops they are brainwashed.

Black people are known as loud, violent, and prone to criminal acts. Thats the way cops and probably many other races view us. Though not every African American is like that. They will continue to to categories us because of the color of our skin. Every race though has people who are loud, violent, and prone to criminal acts. And a high majority of them are from poor communities. Where education is limited and poorly funded, but there is a liquor store and strip club on every corner.

Then there is the fact that Cops run the drug, strip club, & prostitution game. Cops get the drugs and cut it first when it is brought over however they bring it over. The Cops then sell it to the suppliers. Then have the suppliers & dealers pay the DTs to not bother them & also protect them which really they are protecting there potential money since the drug dealers will pay the DTs a cut. That also gives them influence to what locations drugs will be distributed & flooded to. And which locations they will limit the amount of drugs heading to that community. From the beginning there has always been people who consider African American animals so they have no problem flooding the streets with drugs & liquor stores and giving minimal funding to schools while watching us kill ourselves. Then there is the prostitution game that cops run exploiting women and also infecting the community with aids and other diseases. To then get treated at the to expensive yet poorly funded hospitals.

If they really want African Americans to truly change African Americans from being so loud, angry, prone to violence & criminal acts. Then there has to be changes at the ROOT CORE. Which is funding the schools, & limiting the drugs and liquor. And still it will take generations to see the changes truly take effect. But I don't think that most really care. I think that government are happy to throw blacks in jail, flood the streets with drugs, liquor, prostitution with poorly funded schools & hospitals and have us just die and kill ourselves. Because we are still considerd animals, and not even human.

I don't believe that if the suspect were white, that the cops would have felt as much of a threat as they did with the African Americans they shot at 50+ times.

What is police protocol on that? If they failed to follow police protocol,(which I am sure they did) then they are in the wrong. Don't they have to communicate many warnings first? Like ask them to put there hands in the air and also warn them that they will open fire if they cannot see there hands? It seems like they assumed because the suspects were black that it was alright to open fire on them.
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EnySpree
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4/25/2008  5:50 PM
I read what you said freeskier and we are in agreement......but I understand the need to say shocking things for no reason......so I'm done with this convo for my own personal sanity.

I'm off to the sean bell rally on queeens blvd. Lets see if I end up in dead or beaten simply for showing up.
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holfresh
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4/25/2008  6:09 PM
I remember an episode of Real Time with Bill Mayer with the guest Mos Def and Cornel West..Bill then ask the guest if they were afraid of terrorist and wanted a President that can defend us against terrorism...Mos Def quickly replied, I not afraid of Bin-Laden...He doesn't put any fear in my heart..Who I'm afraid of is the NYC police...They have killed more of people like me than any terrorist in the history of this country...

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-25-2008 6:09 PM]

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-25-2008 6:10 PM]
GKFv2
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4/25/2008  6:09 PM
I'll post this in here as well:

I used to think cops were the good guys but because of many bad apples in every force it isn't that way.

A few months ago my brother (with a clean record might I add) was arrested in front of my own house because after 3 Narcotics cops searched his vehicle for no reason and were walking away when my brother stupidly told them to "lick his balls." These guys literally ran and tackled him on the hood of his car, breaking his glasses that he uses to drive with in the meantime. I was with my brother at the time. These guys were arrogant pricks who had nothing better to do than to accost innocent civilians. They were also in a mini-van so at the time so I didn't know if these guys were for real or not. In the end he was charged with disorderly conduct (what?) but the case was dismissed last week without him even seeing a judge. Pathetic.

But back to the original case, I think these guys should have did their time. I don't think it was racial but just cops abusing their power as usual. 50 shots? Seriously man, a guy is dead with 2 or 3 shots. WTF are the other shots for? Is he gonna magically get up and kill you after the first 30? Reckless and sickening.
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Killa4luv
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4/25/2008  6:10 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by EnySpree:

Not racist.....police brutality.

No it is racist. This NEVER happens to white people. We need to be clear on what racism means. If a law is structured in a way, that punishes a certain ethnic group more for that crime, when all available data shows that another ethnic group commits said crime more often, than thats a racist law. The person who drafted it and the people who voted it dont have to be racists, its impact, its outcomes are racist. This is called institutional racismhttp://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/1003.pdf.

Cops police a whole city, and I have never heard of 1 time the police shot an unarmed white guy or group of guys because they thought they had a gun. Because a black person pulled the trigger doesn't make the action any less based on racial stereotypes. It was racist. Police brutality is racist. ENY do you think the police are doing what they do in white communities. Even many black and latin police officers complain about it.

Why do they always see a gun where there is none?

So rape laws should be abandoned as sexist?

No, because unlike crack/cocaine, men do commit the majority of rapes. Reading is fundamental. I will cut and past since you are obviuously confused.
Approximately 2/3 of crack users are white or Hispanic, yet the vast
majority of persons convicted of possession in federal courts in 1994 were African
American, according to the USSC. Defendants convicted of crack possession in 1994 were
84.5% black, 10.3% white, and 5.2% Hispanic. Trafficking offenders were 4.1% white,
88.3% black, and 7.1% Hispanic. Powder cocaine offenders were more racially mixed.
Defendants convicted of simple possession of cocaine powder were 58% white, 26.7%
black, and 15% Hispanic. The powder trafficking offenders were 32% white, 27.4% black,
and 39.3% Hispanic.

The 100:1 quantity ratio in cocaine sentencing causes low-level crack
offenders to receive arbitrarily severe sentences compared to high level powder cocaine
offenders. The quantity distinction has also resulted in a massive sentencing disparity by
race, with African Americans receiving longer sentences than the mostly white and
Hispanic powder cocaine offenders.
BigSm00th
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4/25/2008  6:33 PM
gotta see through the deceptions of the media, politics, police, and all other facets of life that fall under the Systemic umbrella. such is life. terrible day, cops and the power they have in the courtroom is really scary. i was hassled by a group of cops last week in boston and i am white, these things happen all over. people are just messed up. the fact that the white cop reloaded and unloaded on the unarmed black guy adds the race element to this case big time, though overall its just an instance where the second amendment is a tragedy and the NRA is a terrorist organization. cops shouldn't carry guns, like the cops in britain, and the right to own a gun should seriously be brought into question. but that is another argument entirely.
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playa2
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4/25/2008  9:28 PM
Only Jesus can save us.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
4949
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4/25/2008  9:45 PM
Posted by playa2:

Only Jesus can save us.

Auhhh, he's dead.
I'll never trust this' team again.
playa2
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4/25/2008  9:47 PM
his grave is empty, didn't get the memo huh ?
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
4949
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4/25/2008  9:54 PM
Posted by playa2:

his grave is empty, didn't get the memo huh ?

What memo?
I'll never trust this' team again.
EnySpree
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4/25/2008  10:21 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by playa2:

his grave is empty, didn't get the memo huh ?

What memo?

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arkrud
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4/25/2008  11:12 PM
This are the memos...





[Edited by - arkrud on 04-25-2008 11:23 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 04-25-2008 11:28 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 04-25-2008 11:28 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Solace
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4/25/2008  11:40 PM
Let me preface by saying that this is an utter tragedy and that the lawyers on Bell's side really botched this case. Justice was clearly not served, because of that, which is very unfortunate. I was very disappointed by the decision.

That being said, I'm once again disappointed in some of the posters on this board who have gone on a tangent. I feel sorry for the individual and his family.
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by EnySpree:

Not racist.....police brutality.

No it is racist. This NEVER happens to white people.

I find these sorts of blanket statements quite offensive. I am quite confident that with any decent amount of research your blanket statement would clearly prove to be incorrect. I'm sorry that you perceive things this way and I definitely feel sorry that you have to carry that sort of burden around.
Posted by Killa4luv:

We need to be clear on what racism means. If a law is structured in a way, that punishes a certain ethnic group more for that crime, when all available data shows that another ethnic group commits said crime more often, than thats a racist law.

First off, when discussing statistics, is population density taken into account? It's not shocking that white people might do more of most things, since the population of white people in this country is greater. Unless the statistic is a little more refined, it's not telling me much.
Posted by Killa4luv:

The person who drafted it and the people who voted it dont have to be racists, its impact, its outcomes are racist. This is called institutional racismhttp://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/1003.pdf.

Laws certainly aren't racist, despite the implications that you can others have given in the past. Individuals can be racist, but I don't really get why the term institutional racism comes about. Clearly it's individuals who might cause a disadvantage (such as a biased jury), but it is certainly not the stated intention of any institution that I'm aware of.
Posted by Killa4luv:

Cops police a whole city, and I have never heard of 1 time the police shot an unarmed white guy or group of guys because they thought they had a gun.

Perhaps, the reason why you don't hear of such cases has to do with what you pay attention to and what the media makes big news out of. Then, you might ask yourself why the media chooses to focus on certain stories and not others.
Posted by Killa4luv:

Because a black person pulled the trigger doesn't make the action any less based on racial stereotypes. It was racist. Police brutality is racist.

I'm really trying not to insult you here, so I'll simply say that this is an extremist view and it's hard to have a serious conversation when you think every action in the world is an act of racism. To make a statement that all police brutality is racist borders on looney tunes. Again, I feel sorry that you feel that way.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
JohnWallace44
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4/26/2008  12:57 AM
I love that they immediately asked Obama his thoughts. Was Hillary asked since its her god damned state?

The media is comepletely out of control with the election this year.

At a minimum, the line to be crossed should be the reloading issue. If you reload when someone has not fired back, and fire some more, you go to jail no matter who you are.
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izybx
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4/26/2008  7:21 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Cops become brain washed when they are done with there police training. It doesn't matter what race they are. When they become cops they are brainwashed.

Black people are known as loud, violent, and prone to criminal acts. Thats the way cops and probably many other races view us. Though not every African American is like that. They will continue to to categories us because of the color of our skin. Every race though has people who are loud, violent, and prone to criminal acts. And a high majority of them are from poor communities. Where education is limited and poorly funded, but there is a liquor store and strip club on every corner.

Then there is the fact that Cops run the drug, strip club, & prostitution game. Cops get the drugs and cut it first when it is brought over however they bring it over. The Cops then sell it to the suppliers. Then have the suppliers & dealers pay the DTs to not bother them & also protect them which really they are protecting there potential money since the drug dealers will pay the DTs a cut. That also gives them influence to what locations drugs will be distributed & flooded to. And which locations they will limit the amount of drugs heading to that community. From the beginning there has always been people who consider African American animals so they have no problem flooding the streets with drugs & liquor stores and giving minimal funding to schools while watching us kill ourselves. Then there is the prostitution game that cops run exploiting women and also infecting the community with aids and other diseases. To then get treated at the to expensive yet poorly funded hospitals.

If they really want African Americans to truly change African Americans from being so loud, angry, prone to violence & criminal acts. Then there has to be changes at the ROOT CORE. Which is funding the schools, & limiting the drugs and liquor. And still it will take generations to see the changes truly take effect. But I don't think that most really care. I think that government are happy to throw blacks in jail, flood the streets with drugs, liquor, prostitution with poorly funded schools & hospitals and have us just die and kill ourselves. Because we are still considerd animals, and not even human.

I don't believe that if the suspect were white, that the cops would have felt as much of a threat as they did with the African Americans they shot at 50+ times.

What is police protocol on that? If they failed to follow police protocol,(which I am sure they did) then they are in the wrong. Don't they have to communicate many warnings first? Like ask them to put there hands in the air and also warn them that they will open fire if they cannot see there hands? It seems like they assumed because the suspects were black that it was alright to open fire on them.

This post is great.

Having actually gone through the police academy, I can tell you that any "brain washing" is focused toward being tolerant and being aware of racial profiling.

As for your unsubstantiated claims of cutting drugs and selling it back to the suppliers, it sounds to me like you know who is doing it, if so you should call 1800 CRIMESTOPPERS (1800-577 TIPS), where they offer a cash reward in the thousands of dollars for information such as this. But since you dont know **** and youre just making up lies i suspect that you wont be collecting anything anytime soon.
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izybx
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4/26/2008  7:25 AM
Posted by holfresh:

I remember an episode of Real Time with Bill Mayer with the guest Mos Def and Cornel West..Bill then ask the guest if they were afraid of terrorist and wanted a President that can defend us against terrorism...Mos Def quickly replied, I not afraid of Bin-Laden...He doesn't put any fear in my heart..Who I'm afraid of is the NYC police...They have killed more of people like me than any terrorist in the history of this country...

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-25-2008 6:09 PM]

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-25-2008 6:10 PM]


2974 people were killed byt the terrorists attacks on 9/11. How many innocent african american men were killed by the nypd? 5? 10? Its tought to be a cop in this city. You go to college, perhaps join the military in order to satisfy the requirements, and then you show up for your first day on the job to find that you are scum to the very people that you serve...
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izybx
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4/26/2008  7:27 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

I love that they immediately asked Obama his thoughts. Was Hillary asked since its her god damned state?

The media is comepletely out of control with the election this year.

At a minimum, the line to be crossed should be the reloading issue. If you reload when someone has not fired back, and fire some more, you go to jail no matter who you are.

I challenege you to look up the legal definition of manslaughter and reckless enddangerment, then look up the justification defense, and after that tell me what charges these men would be guilty of. Please, I challenge any poster on this forum to make a LEGAL argument for jailing these men.

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