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Here's my thread: This is Total Bullshit!!!
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islesfan
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4/18/2008  9:34 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bobby:

its bad enough chaney, wilkens, browne & brown got away. why should dolan fire zeke just to hand over 18 mil.
good move on jim's part

Umm, because Isiah gets the money anyway?

Why do people think that Isiah would be getting compensated any differently whether he was fired or kept?

Say Isiah were fired completely and he sued Dolan for pay. If Isiah took up employment anywhere else, it would decrease the amount of money Isiah could recover from MSG. Based on this, Dolan would have been smart to let Isiah go. However, Isiah might have a liquidated damages clause in his contract which would trigger a lump sum payment. In this case, Dolan would be smart to hold on to Isiah even if he played no role for the organization.

If Isiah were fired, Dolan would owe him every penny left on his contract. Isiah would only have to sue if Dolan refused to pay him, not likely as there appears to be no cause.

There would have had to be a clause in Isiah's contract, specifically saying that in the event that he's terminated, any future job earnings that were earned during the period in which Isiah was supposed to be under contract with the Knicks, would be deducted from any monies owed Isiah by the Knicks. That's highly doubtful. As is the lump sum payment. Present Value could be negotiated in a buyout but it's doubtful that it's stated in his contract. I've never heard of it for a front office executive.

There's no reason to believe that this is anything but Dolan wanting his buddy Isiah around.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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4949
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4/18/2008  9:36 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
When asked whether Knicks owner Jim Dolan had any say in the decision to reassign Thomas, Walsh said, "He absolutely had no input on it. This was entirely my decision."

Walsh refused to qualify Thomas' role as that of a 'personal consultant,' saying, "I think I'm closer to Isiah than that ... This won't be just a 'sometimes' type of thing ... We will definitely have a relationship that may be more intensive than it has been lately."

Pathetic.

I noticed that Donnie Walsh is starting to sound like a robot also.
I'll never trust this' team again.
islesfan
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4/18/2008  9:46 PM
Donnie Walsh is getting this "talking out of both sides of your mouth" down pretty good.

The way he talks about Isiah, you'd think the team was in better shape than he says it is.

2 days into the offseason and Donnie Walsh is already proving to be full of ****.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
4949
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4/18/2008  9:48 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by nysportsfan11:

He has no title. He has no subordinates. He reports directly to Donnie Walsh, but has nothing to report because he has no job. What does it matter to Knicks fans? He has nothing to do with the team. He won't be allowed to speak about the Knicks to the media. He's collecting the rest of his check. Nothing more, nothing less. Emasculated, but rich and with a full dental plan. He has about as much to do with the Knicks now as Anucha.

I hope this is true. The best case scenerio now, is that Isiah was only retained so that they wouldn't have to swallow the rest of his contract (which btw he never really earned in the first place.)

Do not' buy into to this bull!!! If isiah has no job, if he is not needed here, then why' is he still here?????????? Think about that. dolan knows' he made two' mistakes now, in his GM hirings. Very embarrasing on his part and like a gambler, he wants desperately to win back that $10,000.00 he lost at the table, by putting another $10,000.00 up front. He'll keep spending, spending until he has nothing left to spend and be in denial the entire way through.

Just the same as he will hang onto isiah for years to come and keep him until one day (one of these years) when the Knicks finally do make .500 ball, isiah will get some credit. He wants the team to be a success and he wants to be able to say that isiah had something to do with it if they do succeed to make him feel worth the money he spent on him and his foolish moves. This is how a gambler conducts one self. Along with the white line fettish he plays.
I'll never trust this' team again.
eViL
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4/18/2008  9:50 PM
Posted by islesfan:

If Isiah were fired, Dolan would owe him every penny left on his contract. Isiah would only have to sue if Dolan refused to pay him, not likely as there appears to be no cause.

There would have had to be a clause in Isiah's contract, specifically saying that in the event that he's terminated, any future job earnings that were earned during the period in which Isiah was supposed to be under contract with the Knicks, would be deducted from any monies owed Isiah by the Knicks. That's highly doubtful. As is the lump sum payment. Present Value could be negotiated in a buyout but it's doubtful that it's stated in his contract. I've never heard of it for a front office executive.

There's no reason to believe that this is anything but Dolan wanting his buddy Isiah around.

Isles, general contract principles usually won't allow someone to collect on a contract while also earning money they couldn't earn if it wasn't for the fact they were fired -- this is the law unless you contract out of it. If the moneys earned from the new employment are less than what was owed on the contract, the party in breach would compensate the non-breaching party to "make them whole".

I'm not gonna argue this because the bottom line is that neither of us know what is in his contract. But there are situations where it might be a smart business move to keep him. I'm not saying that's the case in this situation. I pretty much agree with you -- I think he was retained because Dolan said so.
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4949
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4/18/2008  9:53 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bobby:

its bad enough chaney, wilkens, browne & brown got away. why should dolan fire zeke just to hand over 18 mil.
good move on jim's part

Umm, because Isiah gets the money anyway?

Why do people think that Isiah would be getting compensated any differently whether he was fired or kept?

Say Isiah were fired completely and he sued Dolan for pay. If Isiah took up employment anywhere else, it would decrease the amount of money Isiah could recover from MSG. Based on this, Dolan would have been smart to let Isiah go. However, Isiah might have a liquidated damages clause in his contract which would trigger a lump sum payment. In this case, Dolan would be smart to hold on to Isiah even if he played no role for the organization.

Not to mention, isiah is now damaged goods. He'll never have a shot at this kind of money again. Sort of like Anucha Brown situation. She was tainted and at least got millions out of it. She had to! Talk about pay back. But a complete' firing of isiah would of, should of been in place to make it solid.

There are two places in NY that I think is cursed. MSG is #2.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/18/2008  9:53 PM
Posted by playa2:

Come training camp all of you will be here rooting for the knicks, praying for the knicks and trying to bring back the....... wawwww back to the garden.

Speak for yourself.
I'll never trust this' team again.
buddapaw
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4/18/2008  9:59 PM
Posted by Uptown:

I'm just as upset as everyone else about Isiah being retained. But WTF AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!? I'm just a fanatic. I have no control nor say in the daily operations of this franchise no matter how much intelligencia or total nonsense I post here about trades and the like. I can scream, stomp my foot, and drop F-bombs all over this forum, but it aint gonna change a that fact that I have no power. So unlike some of you, I can't just rip my heart out of my chest and turn my back on a franchise I have followed for 20+ years.

As much as I'm disgutsed by Isiah being retained, I know I will be watching come May ? when they anounce the order of the draft picks. I know I will have my fingers crossed and will pray the Knicks land the #1 or #2 pick. If this happens, Isiah will be pushed off the headlines of my mind and will fall back to page 2 or 3 while hopes of a good draft pick will tale over the front page of my mind.

Eventually, hopefully this team will follow the plan Walsh has stated he will unravel in terms of getting under the cap in order to sign a FA. At the end of the day, if he puts together a team that I can root for and love, then I wont concern myself with Isiah. Back in 88-89, when Mark Jackson was running the point, and Ewing was in the paint, and Pitino was manning the sidelines, at age 13, I had no ides who was in the front office and frankly I didn't care. But I did care about the product. If a similar product returns under the lowered cieling at MSG, I'll be there rooting.

Excellent post totally overshadowed. We can't do **** anyway so why beat ourselves up about it, just roll with the punches that's all you can do. Let's face it, if you personally decide not to support the Knicks anymore you will have no effect on the franchise anyway so just chill out and relax.
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
PresIke
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4/18/2008  10:23 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bobby:

its bad enough chaney, wilkens, browne & brown got away. why should dolan fire zeke just to hand over 18 mil.
good move on jim's part

Umm, because Isiah gets the money anyway?

Why do people think that Isiah would be getting compensated any differently whether he was fired or kept?

Say Isiah were fired completely and he sued Dolan for pay. If Isiah took up employment anywhere else, it would decrease the amount of money Isiah could recover from MSG. Based on this, Dolan would have been smart to let Isiah go. However, Isiah might have a liquidated damages clause in his contract which would trigger a lump sum payment. In this case, Dolan would be smart to hold on to Isiah even if he played no role for the organization.

If Isiah were fired, Dolan would owe him every penny left on his contract. Isiah would only have to sue if Dolan refused to pay him, not likely as there appears to be no cause.

There would have had to be a clause in Isiah's contract, specifically saying that in the event that he's terminated, any future job earnings that were earned during the period in which Isiah was supposed to be under contract with the Knicks, would be deducted from any monies owed Isiah by the Knicks. That's highly doubtful. As is the lump sum payment. Present Value could be negotiated in a buyout but it's doubtful that it's stated in his contract. I've never heard of it for a front office executive.

There's no reason to believe that this is anything but Dolan wanting his buddy Isiah around.

Right. He gets the money either way so would you as a business rather keep a potential asset or get rid of it for nothing? In a way it's more punishment because he's not been fired but still works for the Knicks, which is humiliating considering you were the man in charge before. Also, he may have limitations in his contract for working elsewhere so why give him more chance to work elsewhere and earn more by buying him out? That could be a possible punishment, who knows...The point is Isiah can be contractually with the team and not involved at all. I don't quite know why the Dolan-Isiah relationship is supposed to be the paramount reason for his being kept on, but I ain't saying it is not a potential factor.

The only problem is that Isiah as an asset with no power causes this kind of response from some fans that believe Isiah is omnipresent and slightly omnipotent due to what is perceived to be an ability to hypnotize and sway Dolan and the Knicks.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
4949
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4/18/2008  10:23 PM


[Edited by - 4949 on 04-18-2008 10:34 PM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/18/2008  10:36 PM
Posted by buddapaw:

Let's face it, if you personally decide not to support the Knicks anymore you will have no effect on the franchise anyway so just chill out and relax.

We might not have any power over this, but outside of it, my own life will be a lot happier.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Solace
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4/18/2008  10:41 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by buddapaw:

Let's face it, if you personally decide not to support the Knicks anymore you will have no effect on the franchise anyway so just chill out and relax.

We might not have any power over this, but outside of it, my own life will be a lot happier.

Seconded.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
islesfan
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4/18/2008  10:44 PM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bobby:

its bad enough chaney, wilkens, browne & brown got away. why should dolan fire zeke just to hand over 18 mil.
good move on jim's part

Umm, because Isiah gets the money anyway?

Why do people think that Isiah would be getting compensated any differently whether he was fired or kept?

Say Isiah were fired completely and he sued Dolan for pay. If Isiah took up employment anywhere else, it would decrease the amount of money Isiah could recover from MSG. Based on this, Dolan would have been smart to let Isiah go. However, Isiah might have a liquidated damages clause in his contract which would trigger a lump sum payment. In this case, Dolan would be smart to hold on to Isiah even if he played no role for the organization.

If Isiah were fired, Dolan would owe him every penny left on his contract. Isiah would only have to sue if Dolan refused to pay him, not likely as there appears to be no cause.

There would have had to be a clause in Isiah's contract, specifically saying that in the event that he's terminated, any future job earnings that were earned during the period in which Isiah was supposed to be under contract with the Knicks, would be deducted from any monies owed Isiah by the Knicks. That's highly doubtful. As is the lump sum payment. Present Value could be negotiated in a buyout but it's doubtful that it's stated in his contract. I've never heard of it for a front office executive.

There's no reason to believe that this is anything but Dolan wanting his buddy Isiah around.

Right. He gets the money either way so would you as a business rather keep a potential asset or get rid of it for nothing? In a way it's more punishment because he's not been fired but still works for the Knicks, which is humiliating considering you were the man in charge before. Also, he may have limitations in his contract for working elsewhere so why give him more chance to work elsewhere and earn more by buying him out? That could be a possible punishment, who knows...The point is Isiah can be contractually with the team and not involved at all. I don't quite know why the Dolan-Isiah relationship is supposed to be the paramount reason for his being kept on, but I ain't saying it is not a potential factor.

The only problem is that Isiah as an asset with no power causes this kind of response from some fans that believe Isiah is omnipresent and slightly omnipotent due to what is perceived to be an ability to hypnotize and sway Dolan and the Knicks.

If Isiah had proven to be any kind of asset, and he hasn't, they wouldn't have removed him from every job that he was holding. Why would you keep someone that you felt had to be replaced in every regard and everything that he's built over his tenure had to be torn down and built back up?

I'm still waiting for someone to give a single solitary good reason why Isiah is being kept on besides his close relationship with Dolan. Spite isn't it. The guy is a pariah now. Who in their right mind would hire him in a high profile and high paying position?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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4/18/2008  10:48 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bobby:

its bad enough chaney, wilkens, browne & brown got away. why should dolan fire zeke just to hand over 18 mil.
good move on jim's part

Umm, because Isiah gets the money anyway?

Why do people think that Isiah would be getting compensated any differently whether he was fired or kept?

Say Isiah were fired completely and he sued Dolan for pay. If Isiah took up employment anywhere else, it would decrease the amount of money Isiah could recover from MSG. Based on this, Dolan would have been smart to let Isiah go. However, Isiah might have a liquidated damages clause in his contract which would trigger a lump sum payment. In this case, Dolan would be smart to hold on to Isiah even if he played no role for the organization.

If Isiah were fired, Dolan would owe him every penny left on his contract. Isiah would only have to sue if Dolan refused to pay him, not likely as there appears to be no cause.

There would have had to be a clause in Isiah's contract, specifically saying that in the event that he's terminated, any future job earnings that were earned during the period in which Isiah was supposed to be under contract with the Knicks, would be deducted from any monies owed Isiah by the Knicks. That's highly doubtful. As is the lump sum payment. Present Value could be negotiated in a buyout but it's doubtful that it's stated in his contract. I've never heard of it for a front office executive.

There's no reason to believe that this is anything but Dolan wanting his buddy Isiah around.

Right. He gets the money either way so would you as a business rather keep a potential asset or get rid of it for nothing? In a way it's more punishment because he's not been fired but still works for the Knicks, which is humiliating considering you were the man in charge before. Also, he may have limitations in his contract for working elsewhere so why give him more chance to work elsewhere and earn more by buying him out? That could be a possible punishment, who knows...The point is Isiah can be contractually with the team and not involved at all. I don't quite know why the Dolan-Isiah relationship is supposed to be the paramount reason for his being kept on, but I ain't saying it is not a potential factor.

The only problem is that Isiah as an asset with no power causes this kind of response from some fans that believe Isiah is omnipresent and slightly omnipotent due to what is perceived to be an ability to hypnotize and sway Dolan and the Knicks.

If Isiah had proven to be any kind of asset, and he hasn't, they wouldn't have removed him from every job that he was holding. Why would you keep someone that you felt had to be replaced in every regard and everything that he's built over his tenure had to be torn down and built back up?

I'm still waiting for someone to give a single solitary good reason why Isiah is being kept on besides his close relationship with Dolan. Spite isn't it. The guy is a pariah now. Who in their right mind would hire him in a high profile and high paying position?

The question is whether or not Dolan realizes that Isiah is unhireable. There are probably some around the league that still haven't fully taken in how badly overrated Isiah's drafting was and who may think he may be of value in that role.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
K22
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4/18/2008  10:49 PM
Who in their right mind would hire him in a high profile and high paying position?



OH, in their RIGHT MIND, you said.... never mind.

[Edited by - K22 on 2008-04-18 10:50 PM]
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
Uptown
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4/18/2008  10:57 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by buddapaw:

Let's face it, if you personally decide not to support the Knicks anymore you will have no effect on the franchise anyway so just chill out and relax.

We might not have any power over this, but outside of it, my own life will be a lot happier.

So you disagree with a move, albiet a really questionable one, and you just drop your team like a bad habit? If its that easy then good for you. This is not the first nor will it be the last your favorite team will make a move that you disagree with.

I hated that we trade for Juwaan Oldham, but he put on a Knick Uni so I rooted for the Jersey. Rod Strickland is one of my all time favorite Knicks but I didn't follow him to San An. Hated the way the Knicks treated Bernard after he battle back from a severe injury, but still rooted for Johnny Newman a year later when he was hoisting up those cloud piercing 3's. Absolutely hated to see Grundfeld leave, loved to see the Knicks in the finals a few months later.

What I'm saying is, your team is going to make a decision that a fan will be for or against. But its all about the next move. What have you doen for me next.

Bobby
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4/18/2008  11:04 PM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bobby:

its bad enough chaney, wilkens, browne & brown got away. why should dolan fire zeke just to hand over 18 mil.
good move on jim's part

Umm, because Isiah gets the money anyway?

Why do people think that Isiah would be getting compensated any differently whether he was fired or kept?

Say Isiah were fired completely and he sued Dolan for pay. If Isiah took up employment anywhere else, it would decrease the amount of money Isiah could recover from MSG. Based on this, Dolan would have been smart to let Isiah go. However, Isiah might have a liquidated damages clause in his contract which would trigger a lump sum payment. In this case, Dolan would be smart to hold on to Isiah even if he played no role for the organization.

If Isiah were fired, Dolan would owe him every penny left on his contract. Isiah would only have to sue if Dolan refused to pay him, not likely as there appears to be no cause.

There would have had to be a clause in Isiah's contract, specifically saying that in the event that he's terminated, any future job earnings that were earned during the period in which Isiah was supposed to be under contract with the Knicks, would be deducted from any monies owed Isiah by the Knicks. That's highly doubtful. As is the lump sum payment. Present Value could be negotiated in a buyout but it's doubtful that it's stated in his contract. I've never heard of it for a front office executive.

There's no reason to believe that this is anything but Dolan wanting his buddy Isiah around.

Right. He gets the money either way so would you as a business rather keep a potential asset or get rid of it for nothing? In a way it's more punishment because he's not been fired but still works for the Knicks, which is humiliating considering you were the man in charge before. Also, he may have limitations in his contract for working elsewhere so why give him more chance to work elsewhere and earn more by buying him out? That could be a possible punishment, who knows...The point is Isiah can be contractually with the team and not involved at all. I don't quite know why the Dolan-Isiah relationship is supposed to be the paramount reason for his being kept on, but I ain't saying it is not a potential factor.

The only problem is that Isiah as an asset with no power causes this kind of response from some fans that believe Isiah is omnipresent and slightly omnipotent due to what is perceived to be an ability to hypnotize and sway Dolan and the Knicks.

i'll spin this a little further by saying there are now 3 events that should not go unnoticed
1- since zeke's tenure in new york what was the total payment owed to chaney, wilken, brown & browne
2- starbury's famous comments about having some goods on zeke.
3- zeke's good standing, as some put it, with dolan in retaining an unspecified position


"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Silverfuel
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4/18/2008  11:07 PM
[quote]Posted by nysportsfan11:

He has no title. He has no subordinates. He reports directly to Donnie Walsh, but has nothing to report because he has no job. What does it matter to Knicks fans? He has nothing to do with the team. He won't be allowed to speak about the Knicks to the media. He's collecting the rest of his check. Nothing more, nothing less. Emasculated, but rich and with a full dental plan. He has about as much to do with the Knicks now as Anucha.
Hope you are right. I'm going to go celebrate his demotion!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
4949
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4/18/2008  11:08 PM
Uptown.

Rod Strickland? The guy who exposed himself in the hallway of a hotel, trying to get a date with a woman and got into trouble with the police for it? That guy?

You sound like you been around for awhile. If so, then you should understand the pain of ending up like this, especially after following this organization for just about 30 years.

This is a joke. Their pulling the wool over your eyes. That's why you can't see it. How can you stand it anymore. I say that in a nice way.

And what's wrong with being happier outside of the Knicks?

[Edited by - 4949 on 04-18-2008 11:09 PM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
islesfan
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4/18/2008  11:10 PM
Why is it that when Donnie Walsh talks about what a mess the franchise is, it's a complete 180 degrees from how he talks about Isiah, the person responsible for the franchise's current condition?

Normally it would be understandable as a person with class wouldn't want to speak ill of a person that he's replaced (e.g. Walsh and Isiah compared to the classless Isiah badmouthing Layden even 4 1/2 years later), but when you turn around and retain that person all sorts of alarms should be going off in people's heads.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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