Posted by Queeniepop:

Trueblue...Jamal also goes in to practice on days off to workout. He bulked up before the season. You are completely blind here. Why don't you check out the Knicks website and see the video of Nate Robinson clowning during pre-game. REAL PROFESSIONAL.

Larry Brown: "He's the most improved player I think I've ever coached. And he's as good a kid as I've ever been around," Brown said. "He does things for our team to please me to a fault. But you get enough like that and we'll have some people cheering for us."

John Starks, another former Knicks star who has also won the Munson Award, was also thrilled for Crawford.

"I think it means a lot for Jamal to win this award," said Starks. "The Thurman Munson Award exemplifies players just like Jamal. He has a big heart and does things outside the court to help others. What Thurman Munson meant to New York, especially in sports, and what he did in the community, to be able to receive this award is a great feeling. You get rewarded on the basketball court for what you do with your athletic ability, and sometimes what you do outside the court can go unnoticed. So to receive such a prestigious award, in my book, is an incredible feeling."

excellent post.. but true blue is the internet Johnny cochrin, he spends time defending scumbags and morons for some odd reason.... Ricky davis is a prick, any guy that is selfish enough to throw the ball at the opposing basket to get a rebound is a jerk.. that far surpasses anything I have seen zachass do...

Anyway, if jamal spends time during practice working on his And 1 moves.. then good, at least he uses them in games and they work.... what the hell is fred jones and malik working on? shooting bricks? how about the rest of the team.. Hell if they worked on anything other than complaining, i would be happy... David lee and nate are about the only ones I have seen progress from this year....

the Larry Brown comment about jamal is good enough for me.... I don't care what Doc rivers has to say about ricky davis(although I respect doc as a person), those things mentioned are things done off the court. Steph was good for doing things like this. He took barbosa under his wing, gave him a car, used to hold summer practices.... But the problem with guys like marbury and davis, when it is time to sacrafice on the court, the problems start.. Hence as True blue mentioned, his butting heads with pierce.. How many teams has ricky davis been on? let see,Charlotte,miami, the cavs,Boston then minny then miami again.. LOL. ricky davis is a pretty talented guy, so I doubt it is because he was a scrub, I wonder why he spent his entire caereer on the move... hmmmmmmm


[Edited by - tkf on 19-03-2008 7:40 PM]

Posted by ramtour420:

Jamal would own on any team that has a system, a real coach and players that would follow the system set by a coach and play team d. Its not surprising that he was changing his game with Brown, that just shows that he is capable and willing to adapt. If he was on a team that ran plays, set screens etc(like the Pistons , for example) he would devolop a midrange jumper and i bet his d would improve as well if he was the worst defensive player on the team. He'd then be better than R Hamilton i think.

Posted by TheGame:

I have a different view of Jamal. If he was on a veteran team with other options, he is a guy who could average 18-19 pts per game on 48%-50% shooting. The guy is an elite scorer. Not many people can score 50 pts in a game and the guy was consistently putting up 23+ points at one point in the season. He just is someone that needs to learn to cut down on the and 1 plays and to expend more energy on defense. His problem now is that quite frankly, he has become one of our best scorers and he is forced to try and carry the team, which is something he cannot really do. You put 4 solid veterans who can play defense and pass around Crawford, and he can be part of a potent team.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Bippity10:

I don't like Jamal's game and do not like him as a player but...........

I do not let my personal feelings get in the way of being fair to players. Some feel he would be a bumb no matter what his situation is. That's fine and I do not disparage that opinion, but I think differently. Never in his career has he shown to be a Ricky Davis or anyone like this. Never in his career has he shown that he will not listen to a coach. And players that listen to coaches tend to turn out to be pretty good given the right situation.

Now I do not deny that after 8 years it may be too late for this guy to really learn the game but that doesn't mean he can't help the right team. I think it's just a shame he never had a coach that wasn't enamored with his scoring ability and actually made him learn the game. The one he did have was immediately fired.

You guys took the Ricky Davis slant the wrong way. I brought him up to show Ricky being a talented player if given a better situation and coaching would/could prove himself a productive and useful player who wouldn't hinder winning. Funny thing is Danny Ainge admitted just two weeks ago he almost traded Paul Pierce in 2005 to Portland and Ricky Davis would have remained on the team. Before Danny Ainge pulled the trigger on trading for Ricky Davis he consulted with Paul first. Paul gave him the ok because he said Ricky is a great guy and was one of the players he spent time in the summer working out with in Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Ricky Davis did the stupid basketball act back in 2001-2002 and hasn't been in any trouble ever in the league. He has great respect amongst the players in the league, participating in a couple summer charity events every summer invited by such players and has his own Foundation RickyDavis31.com. I think Jamal is a more likable guy but this wasn't what we were discussing. It was about if we should trade Jamal.... turned into taking players who are talented out of bad environments and/or surrounding them by more stable ones, wondering if they could contribute more or change a team towards a winning culture. I'm not necessarily doubting if Jamal would succeed either, I'd rather him go and would wish him the best being able to do so for another team.

Here are other examples what about Rasheed Wallace? What about Stephen Jackson? What about Jerry Stackhouse? What about Rafer Alston? What about Tim Thomas? What about Antoine Walker? What about Vince Carter? What about Gary Payton? What about Nick Van Excel? What about Baron Davis? What about Jason Kidd? What about Vernon Maxwell? What about Bonzi Wells?

Another note before Jamal became a Knick the majority of the fan base didn't want him on our team. I ask Why????? We know why! Jamal was still this likable guy with huge/tons of upside correct? Matter of fact one of the reasons he was traded by the Bulls was very similar to the Ricky Davis/Paul Pierce situation. Jamal would go hard in practice at Kirk Hinrich and constantly show him up in front of his teammates. He even gave shots in the media saying the reason he had to leave because mgmt made it personal, almost implying as if it was a black or white/racial issue. Go to any Bulls board and ask them about their relationship.

So what it gets down to Jamal is currently wearing a Knick uniform and he's a good guy. That's reasonable but it doesn't excuse how his play has hurt this basketball team and we should without question look to trade him this off-season while his value may be relatively high.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-20-2008 10:32 AM]

Posted by Anji:

Really winded way of saying you would want to move on from JC. All the recollections you seem to have are just your own Jaded slant. JC out play Jay Williams and took his starting spot in Chicago and he wasn't showing up Kirk, that just sounds stupid. They wanted to go in a new directions with the young guys. The Bulls had drafted BG and wanted to go with Kirk at the point, that's the reason they wanted to move Jamal.

The choice of if jamal can help the team is up to the next GM, and it seems to me most guys like what he brings. And I don't see any PP or Ben Gordon on the knicks for the knicks to be moving towards. No matter how making halftime interviews you hear about Jamal doing And-1 flip tricks in practice can change that.... Those are the facts.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Bippity10:

I don't like Jamal's game and do not like him as a player but...........

I do not let my personal feelings get in the way of being fair to players. Some feel he would be a bumb no matter what his situation is. That's fine and I do not disparage that opinion, but I think differently. Never in his career has he shown to be a Ricky Davis or anyone like this. Never in his career has he shown that he will not listen to a coach. And players that listen to coaches tend to turn out to be pretty good given the right situation.

Now I do not deny that after 8 years it may be too late for this guy to really learn the game but that doesn't mean he can't help the right team. I think it's just a shame he never had a coach that wasn't enamored with his scoring ability and actually made him learn the game. The one he did have was immediately fired.

You guys took the Ricky Davis slant the wrong way. I brought him up to show Ricky being a talented player if given a better situation and coaching would/could prove himself a productive and useful player who wouldn't hinder winning. Funny thing is Danny Ainge admitted just two weeks ago he almost traded Paul Pierce in 2005 to Portland and Ricky Davis would have remained on the team. Before Danny Ainge pulled the trigger on trading for Ricky Davis he consulted with Paul first. Paul gave him the ok because he said Ricky is a great guy and was one of the players he spent time in the summer working out with in Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Ricky Davis did the stupid basketball act back in 2001-2002 and hasn't been in any trouble ever in the league. He has great respect amongst the players in the league, participating in a couple summer charity events every summer invited by such players and has his own Foundation RickyDavis31.com. I think Jamal is a more likable guy but this wasn't what we were discussing. It was about if we should trade Jamal.... turned into taking players who are talented out of bad environments and/or surrounding them by more stable ones, wondering if they could contribute more or change a team towards a winning culture. I'm not necessarily doubting if Jamal would succeed either, I'd rather him go and would wish him the best being able to do so for another team.

Here are other examples what about Rasheed Wallace? What about Stephen Jackson? What about Jerry Stackhouse? What about Rafer Alston? What about Tim Thomas? What about Antoine Walker? What about Vince Carter? What about Gary Payton? What about Nick Van Excel? What about Baron Davis? What about Jason Kidd? What about Vernon Maxwell? What about Bonzi Wells?

Another note before Jamal became a Knick the majority of the fan base didn't want him on our team. I ask Why????? We know why! It Basketbal related. IMO this hasn't changed sinc he's been here. Jamal was still this likable guy with huge/tons of upside correct? Matter of fact one of the reasons he was traded by the Bulls was very similar to the Ricky Davis/Paul Pierce situation. Jamal would go hard in practice at Kirk Hinrich and constantly show him up in front of his teammates. He even gave shots in the media saying the reason he had to leave because mgmt made it personal, almost implying as if it was a black or white/racial issue. Go to any Bulls board and ask them about their relationship.

So what it gets down to Jamal is currently wearing a Knick uniform and he's a good guy. That's reasonable but it doesn't excuse how his play has hurt this basketball team and we should without question look to trade him this off-season while his value may be relatively high.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-20-2008 10:40 AM]

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TheGame:

I have a different view of Jamal. If he was on a veteran team with other options, he is a guy who could average 18-19 pts per game on 48%-50% shooting. The guy is an elite scorer. Not many people can score 50 pts in a game and the guy was consistently putting up 23+ points at one point in the season. He just is someone that needs to learn to cut down on the and 1 plays and to expend more energy on defense. His problem now is that quite frankly, he has become one of our best scorers and he is forced to try and carry the team, which is something he cannot really do. You put 4 solid veterans who can play defense and pass around Crawford, and he can be part of a potent team.

Can you list some guy's whose FG% rose by 10 points when they went from bad teams to teams with good options? That's just unprecedented and inconceivable to me.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 03-20-2008 09:56 AM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Bippity10:

I don't like Jamal's game and do not like him as a player but...........

I do not let my personal feelings get in the way of being fair to players. Some feel he would be a bumb no matter what his situation is. That's fine and I do not disparage that opinion, but I think differently. Never in his career has he shown to be a Ricky Davis or anyone like this. Never in his career has he shown that he will not listen to a coach. And players that listen to coaches tend to turn out to be pretty good given the right situation.

Now I do not deny that after 8 years it may be too late for this guy to really learn the game but that doesn't mean he can't help the right team. I think it's just a shame he never had a coach that wasn't enamored with his scoring ability and actually made him learn the game. The one he did have was immediately fired.

You guys took the Ricky Davis slant the wrong way. I brought him up to show Ricky being a talented player if given a better situation and coaching would/could prove himself a productive and useful player who wouldn't hinder winning. Funny thing is Danny Ainge admitted just two weeks ago he almost traded Paul Pierce in 2005 to Portland and Ricky Davis would have remained on the team. Before Danny Ainge pulled the trigger on trading for Ricky Davis he consulted with Paul first. Paul gave him the ok because he said Ricky is a great guy and was one of the players he spent time in the summer working out with in Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Ricky Davis did the stupid basketball act back in 2001-2002 and hasn't been in any trouble ever in the league. He has great respect amongst the players in the league, participating in a couple summer charity events every summer invited by such players and has his own Foundation RickyDavis31.com. I think Jamal is a more likable guy but this wasn't what we were discussing. It was about if we should trade Jamal.... turned into taking players who are talented out of bad environments and/or surrounding them by more stable ones, wondering if they could contribute more or change a team towards a winning culture. I'm not necessarily doubting if Jamal would succeed either, I'd rather him go and would wish him the best being able to do so for another team.

Here are other examples what about Rasheed Wallace? What about Stephen Jackson? What about Jerry Stackhouse? What about Rafer Alston? What about Tim Thomas? What about Antoine Walker? What about Vince Carter? What about Gary Payton? What about Nick Van Excel? What about Baron Davis? What about Jason Kidd? What about Vernon Maxwell? What about Bonzi Wells?

Another note before Jamal became a Knick the majority of the fan base didn't want him on our team. I ask Why????? We know why! It Basketbal related. IMO this hasn't changed sinc he's been here. Jamal was still this likable guy with huge/tons of upside correct? Matter of fact one of the reasons he was traded by the Bulls was very similar to the Ricky Davis/Paul Pierce situation. Jamal would go hard in practice at Kirk Hinrich and constantly show him up in front of his teammates. He even gave shots in the media saying the reason he had to leave because mgmt made it personal, almost implying as if it was a black or white/racial issue. Go to any Bulls board and ask them about their relationship.

So what it gets down to Jamal is currently wearing a Knick uniform and he's a good guy. That's reasonable but it doesn't excuse how his play has hurt this basketball team and we should without question look to trade him this off-season while his value may be relatively high.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-20-2008 10:40 AM]

See not at one point in my life did I ever say that in a different setting for the right coach Ricky Davis would be a better player. I don't hold that opinion any more than I think Stephon Marbury or Zach Randolph would. But I think Jamal is different than those types of players. It may be too late, and we are spending far too much time on this topic, but I simply feel that if Jamal had spent four years with LB he would be a completely different player than he is today having spent 8 years for a variety of coaches who are only enamored with his ability to look pretty dribbling

Not once did I discuss whether we should or shouldn't trade him. As a matter of fact I'm all for trading him. But.........that is completely independent of the fact that I think with proper coaching he could have had a much better career. I think in your typical haste to find someone to disagree with on any topic with a remote positive spin, you are confusing my statements with those of others.

I didn't say that you did but going off of what was stated in bold I further expounded on what I meant. I didn't want you to think Jamal=Ricky Davis as people. I chose Ricky because of his age, equivalent talent, and bad situations. Put it this way, put Jamal or Ricky on the Spurs and give them both 20-25min/gm will their contributions be equal? I wholeheartedly think so. Ricky wouldn't be productive under say a Larry Brown? I pretty much concur Jamal has just as great of chance to succeed in a good environment as some of those other players I listed. But we're 2-3yrs away from having that good winning environment and by then Jamal will be 31yrs old on what I would assume to be a very young team by then. Jamal has contributed to a losing environment. Jamal's value according to all the outside love he appears to be getting may be high, let's trade him.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-20-2008 11:17 AM]

In the situation we are in, I have no problem trading jamal and actually would recommend it. So once again I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with.