Posted by VDesai:

2 more to add to the list: Ty Lawson and Mario Chalmers. Like these 2 guys a lot- unselfish, efficient and they win games.

You know who I still like and think he can be a good NBA PG...

Eric Maynor. You probably remember him from last years VCU NCAA tourney team and the guy who beat Duke in the ACC tourney. He was playing out of his mind and was only a Sophmore last year. This year - 18.2ppg 5.2apg 45% shooting. The biggest thing with Maynor is that he has a good head on his shoulders and thats important, especially to play PG in the NBA. I'd take a real long look at this guy if we can't get Derrick Rose.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by VDesai:

2 more to add to the list: Ty Lawson and Mario Chalmers. Like these 2 guys a lot- unselfish, efficient and they win games.

You know who I still like and think he can be a good NBA PG...

Eric Maynor. You probably remember him from last years VCU NCAA tourney team and the guy who beat Duke in the ACC tourney. He was playing out of his mind and was only a Sophmore last year. This year - 18.2ppg 5.2apg 45% shooting. The biggest thing with Maynor is that he has a good head on his shoulders and thats important, especially to play PG in the NBA. I'd take a real long look at this guy if we can't get Derrick Rose.

I was impressed with Maynor as well... all those guys have given no indication that they're going to declare though. I would have no problem drafting him with our second rounder (30-37) though if he does.

Marcus Williams has NOT been that impressive on the NBA level. He looks for his shot way too much and has been a terribly inefficient shooter. Also not a good defender. He has had some good games, so has Balkman. IMO the jury is out on that one.

Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Posted by playa2:

The pg that's gonna be good one day is only a freshmen and will stay in school next yr the name is Johnny Flynn of Syracuse. A nystate native who grew up and gets it what it is to be a knick fan growing up.

The kid from Niagara Falls NY at 6"0 is shooting 47% as a freshmen 77 ft%
5.2 asst per gm.

Good floor leader who loves getting his teammates the ball and isn't afraid to knock down the big shot.

Still young , but the promise is there



^ Here he scores 24 pts against Georgetown

[Edited by - playa2 on 24-01-2008 08:23]

I'm not willing to roll the dice on an undersized PG. I'm sure the promise and potential is there, but at this point in the Knicks' drafting process and current team status, an NBA ready body should be a prerequisite for the position they draft for.

Jonny is not coming out after his freshmen yr, his parents want him to get his degree and he knows he isn't ready yet.

My reason for bringing his name up is because I grew up and played ball with his dad .

Posted by TMS:

if we can't draft a star calibre PG, then i'd rather draft the best defensive shotblocking bigman i can find at our draft position.

The big man you are speaking of should be Thabeet from Uconn. 7'3 270lbs. If we draft him though, we need to move Curry. Possible big for a small. Thabeet would be ideal next to Randolph. Thabeet is a game changer on the defensive end and runs the floor like a forward.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nyk4ever:

DERRICK ROSE. Freshman PG, Memphis 6'4 200 pounds.
Good shooter, great slasher, great passer, can play uptempo or half-court, plays defense, is coachable. This is our guy.

Bip, I expected you to pick up the Rose slack for me. What happened?

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 01-23-2008 11:11 PM]

That's because he sucks

Everyone was right about you, you're just a washed up, surly ball player.

so!!!

In all honesty I would take Rose in a heartbeat. But I would be really worried about bringing on a PG without a veteran leader to mentor him. Losing is contagious. Bad habits are contagious. I would hate to get a Derek Rose type and then ruin them

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nyk4ever:

DERRICK ROSE. Freshman PG, Memphis 6'4 200 pounds.
Good shooter, great slasher, great passer, can play uptempo or half-court, plays defense, is coachable. This is our guy.

Bip, I expected you to pick up the Rose slack for me. What happened?

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 01-23-2008 11:11 PM]

That's because he sucks

Everyone was right about you, you're just a washed up, surly ball player.

so!!!

In all honesty I would take Rose in a heartbeat. But I would be really worried about bringing on a PG without a veteran leader to mentor him. Losing is contagious. Bad habits are contagious. I would hate to get a Derek Rose type and then ruin them

I'm not sure I agree with you on this one. I actually think Isiah has done a very good job with Nate. I complain about his playing time, but as a player he's been coming along very nicely. I can't judge Isiah's effect on PG's from Steph, since NO ONE can really get him to change his thinking to the degree it needs for him to be a winner. The thing is that if you exclude guys like steph and Francis, his work with Nate and Jamal has seemed to bear some fruit. I think Mardy's problems were about his knee problems and not being able to work on his game this summer. He looks heavy to me and not in top physical shape, so I can't use him to make a judgement on Isiah's effect on his guards either. Jamal is coachable, tho a slow learner and Nate seems to have taken things more seriously after Isiah got on him to get it together. However NONE of our guards are what you would call exemplary students of the game that you can easily teach.

I don't think isiah would mess up a PG, when he's one of the best to ever play the game. He may not be a great overall coach, but I think he has a lot ot offer a PG if they'll listen. Heck Isiah can still PLAY! I bet he can literally SHOW a guard what he's talking about and not just talk or write it down. I'm Isiah's age and I can still hoop enough to show my sons things, so I would bet that he'd be a good influence on a young guard trying to learn the ropes. What would an Eric Snow know about the game more than Isiah? They aren't even that far apart in age really. So i'm gonna give Isiah the benefit of the doubt on that one.

You referenced Isiah a lot, but I think Bip was referring to the overall negativity surrounding the team and the collective losing attitude.

Anyway, while your opinion of Isiah is interesting, there are two problems. First, who knows if Isiah will still be here next year? Even as someone who severely doubts Dolan's willingness to fire Isiah, you have to admit it's a distinct possibility. Secondly, the leadership has to come from other sources than just the coach. He will need to be to mentored both on and off the court.

Right now, I think you have to agree with Bip that this is not a good environment for young players. I think we're seeing the general effects of this being a bad environment, even if on some weeks one or two of our young players looks great.

Posted by franco12:

Posted by TMS:

if we can't draft a star calibre PG, then i'd rather draft the best defensive shotblocking bigman i can find at our draft position.

sam bowie over jordan?

I wouldn't mind getting a new gm who could mend fences with the league, including larry brown. because I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on dalembert - doubt he has a renaissance like camby, but a change of scenery might help.

i said if we can't draft a star calibre PG, then go after a defensive shotblocker & fill a need... if there's any Jordans in the draft this year, then obviously u do w/the best talent.

that said, the LAST thing i wanna see is Isiah drafting another bigman who plays no D.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-24-2008 8:22 PM]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by franco12:

Posted by TMS:

if we can't draft a star calibre PG, then i'd rather draft the best defensive shotblocking bigman i can find at our draft position.

sam bowie over jordan?

I wouldn't mind getting a new gm who could mend fences with the league, including larry brown. because I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on dalembert - doubt he has a renaissance like camby, but a change of scenery might help.

i said if we can't draft a star calibre PG, then go after a defensive shotblocker & fill a need... if there's any Jordans in the draft this year, then obviously u do w/the best talent.

that said, the LAST thing i wanna see is Isiah drafting another bigman who plays no D.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-24-2008 8:22 PM]

He's going to draft a 2nd round SF with a top 5 pick and keep him on the bench for 2 years while Richardson and Jeffries keep getting futile playing time.

[Edited by - jrzyhustla on 01-25-2008 12:03 AM]

[Edited by - jrzyhustla on 01-25-2008 12:03 AM]

if the Knicks can't get Rose then they need to draft Donte Greene for the SF and trade whoever they have to a team that has a draft pick in the 15-20 range and use that to take either Augustin, Collison, or Lawson

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nyk4ever:

DERRICK ROSE. Freshman PG, Memphis 6'4 200 pounds.
Good shooter, great slasher, great passer, can play uptempo or half-court, plays defense, is coachable. This is our guy.

Bip, I expected you to pick up the Rose slack for me. What happened?

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 01-23-2008 11:11 PM]

That's because he sucks

Everyone was right about you, you're just a washed up, surly ball player.

so!!!

In all honesty I would take Rose in a heartbeat. But I would be really worried about bringing on a PG without a veteran leader to mentor him. Losing is contagious. Bad habits are contagious. I would hate to get a Derek Rose type and then ruin them

I'm not sure I agree with you on this one. I actually think Isiah has done a very good job with Nate. I complain about his playing time, but as a player he's been coming along very nicely. I can't judge Isiah's effect on PG's from Steph, since NO ONE can really get him to change his thinking to the degree it needs for him to be a winner. The thing is that if you exclude guys like steph and Francis, his work with Nate and Jamal has seemed to bear some fruit. I think Mardy's problems were about his knee problems and not being able to work on his game this summer. He looks heavy to me and not in top physical shape, so I can't use him to make a judgement on Isiah's effect on his guards either. Jamal is coachable, tho a slow learner and Nate seems to have taken things more seriously after Isiah got on him to get it together. However NONE of our guards are what you would call exemplary students of the game that you can easily teach.

I don't think isiah would mess up a PG, when he's one of the best to ever play the game. He may not be a great overall coach, but I think he has a lot ot offer a PG if they'll listen. Heck Isiah can still PLAY! I bet he can literally SHOW a guard what he's talking about and not just talk or write it down. I'm Isiah's age and I can still hoop enough to show my sons things, so I would bet that he'd be a good influence on a young guard trying to learn the ropes. What would an Eric Snow know about the game more than Isiah? They aren't even that far apart in age really. So i'm gonna give Isiah the benefit of the doubt on that one.

You referenced Isiah a lot, but I think Bip was referring to the overall negativity surrounding the team and the collective losing attitude.

Anyway, while your opinion of Isiah is interesting, there are two problems. First, who knows if Isiah will still be here next year? Even as someone who severely doubts Dolan's willingness to fire Isiah, you have to admit it's a distinct possibility. Secondly, the leadership has to come from other sources than just the coach. He will need to be to mentored both on and off the court.

Right now, I think you have to agree with Bip that this is not a good environment for young players. I think we're seeing the general effects of this being a bad environment, even if on some weeks one or two of our young players looks great.

Perhaps I misunderstood Bip. I don't think the atmosphere here has been conducive to nurturing young players, tho I do believe that part of that had to do with guys like Francis and Steph. The other young guys aren't the source of problems. Zach isn't a great role model, but Malik is. If we add mentally strong young players I believe that like Brandon Roy, they can't be negatively influenced because he has INTEGRITY! i never really let the streets overtake me and thus i've grown to be a capable father and husband for the last 20 years. I think some people are born with a strong will and once they're set on doing what is right they can't be swayed from that. THAT is the kind of player I want to bring in here. In short I want a LEADER and not a follower. We've had too many weak minded and impressionable players. It's time to change that stench around here.

I may be wrong, but I could have sworn that I talked about this during and before both the Frye/Lee/Robinson drafts and also before the Balkman draft and I could swear that you argued with me that it wasn't important. I could be wrong, it might have been EArl. There are a lot of mentally tough players Nix. That is different from true leaders that can come into a lossing situation and turn it around instantly. Those types of players are very rare. ARe they in the draft? Maybe. Chances are, they aren't. So that gets us back to reality. Most likely we will draft a player with leardership ability, but asking them to take over the team will be a stretch. So it is imperative that we also bring in veteran leaders that can mentor them and show them the way. Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson have both shown improvement. Both are "bringing it" on a regular basis. Both are showing individual success. But neither is affecting our record. We are still a mediocre ballclub with an awful teams record. There is a reason behind that. It's because we don't have the leadership in place to help right the ship, when the going gets tough. We don't have a leader that has been through the wars and has won. So guys like Craw and Nate and Balkman and Lee are having a hard time learning it on their own. It will be a herculean task to bring in a rookie to try to be the one to teach them. The Magic Johnson's of the world are few and far between.

Now let's say for argument's sake the player we pick becomes a monster leader. We do acquire the next Magic Johnson/Duncan etc. At that point you don't stick with the status quo. You don't sit back and wait for the Curry's and Zach's of the world to get it. You start building around that new figure. YOu decide who fits next to him and who doesn't. You find out who is listening and who isn't. Then you get rid of the rest. Isiah's mistake in the past is instead of finding that next leader and building around them. He just targeted role playing young guys and built them around Eddie Curry and Stephon Marbury. The result is the young guys are becoming good players that have no affect on the final record. When Marbs was destroying our team earlier this year, yet again, Nate and jamal did not have the leadership qualities to avoid a collapse. Malik didn't have the clout. We had no leader. That has been the reason behind collapses for at least 3 years now. Some have seen the spurts of good play and ignored the yearly collapses and the obvious reasons behind them. No VETERAN leadership

[Edited by - bippity10 on 25-01-2008 07:59 AM]