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I SAY UGH Says We Need A K.G.
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sebstar
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1/22/2008  5:25 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by Vmart:

You guys can bash Isiah for everything he has done but he is right about the KG trade those two Celtics GM bitch slapped the entire league with the deal. Phil Jackson still questions the deal and to me Phil Jackson usually tells it like it is. This was a deal that the league should have not allowed. This was a deal between friends and that has very little basketball deraling involved in it.

All good things in live are about friends.
That’s why one should have friends not enemies.
Isiah has only enemies so he will always be a loser.

Fair enough, but dont tell me that Isiah is talking out of his ass about the KG deal. He's 100% right.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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TrueBlue
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1/22/2008  5:26 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Ok, let's hear the trade offer that Isiah made that was rejected solely because he wasn't "in" with McHale.

I don't think he had the assets to get Al Jefferson or Minnesota's #1 pick (possibly this seasons) that Boston sent back to them so I'd love to hear what makes Isiah think he had a chance to get KG.


I brought this up in the original post. What was our rumored offer because nothing of substance surfaced. Now we did hear I SAY UGH putting the NBA on notice Curry was untouchable ROTFLOL!
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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1/22/2008  5:38 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Why is it that it has taken Isiah 4 years to realize that he needs a leader? Especially at the PG position? I again ask, while we were using resources on the Eddie Curry's and the Zach Randolph's and the Jerome James' and the Jared Jeffries of the world, he completely ignored the most important aspect of a TEAM.
Every year GM's add good players to their teams that aren't leaders of men. Very few teams actually have bonafide Leaders that can change a team for the better. Just looking at the last few drafts you can say that Roy, CP3 and Deron are those type of players. I'm not sure how many more there have been. Isiah made a mistake that MANY GM's make going after talent over character. Sometimes GM's just get lucky and end up with a guy like that even tho they weren't necessarily going into the draft saying "i'm looking for a team leader". Heck EVERY team could use a KG, but there really aren't many like him in terms of his integrity and will to win. His work ethic and dedication. Not to mention his talent. No one ever said that Isiah was a great GM, so it's not that surprising to see him taking a while to really get it.

I've liked his draft picks for where we were drafting, even tho it's arguable that he could've made some better picks at times. The question is why did he decide to go after the players that he did, instead of looking to rebuild with top picks and possibly getting a team leader? Well I think Dolan had some part to play, since he wants quick results and splashy names to sell tickets, which is his primary concern. Let's not forget that. Dolan is the one who said he wanted the playoffs when he hired Isiah. Not much later we added Steph and started on this road. Yeah Isiah may have been in complete argreement or maybe not, but regardless he would've had to bow to Dolan's wishes. Ultimately, Dolan doesn't want a full rebuild and if he did we wouldn't have traded for the players we have all of these years, including the Layden years.
Vmart
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1/22/2008  5:46 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Vmart:

You guys can bash Isiah for everything he has done but he is right about the KG trade those two Celtics GM bitch slapped the entire league with the deal. Phil Jackson still questions the deal and to me Phil Jackson usually tells it like it is. This was a deal that the league should have not allowed. This was a deal between friends and that has very little basketball deraling involved in it.

I guess Minnesota and the Celtics shouldn't be allowed to make trades with each other as long as Danny and Mchale are the GM's.(rolling eyes)

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-22-2008 4:21 PM]

Keep rolling your eyes, but you know that if ten other teams came with better offers for KG they wouldn't have taken it. You should have friends but when friend make a deal that effects most of the league in a negative manner then this was a dirty deal. Its like Boston has a farm system in the Wolves.
Bippity10
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1/22/2008  5:54 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:

Why is it that it has taken Isiah 4 years to realize that he needs a leader? Especially at the PG position? I again ask, while we were using resources on the Eddie Curry's and the Zach Randolph's and the Jerome James' and the Jared Jeffries of the world, he completely ignored the most important aspect of a TEAM.
Every year GM's add good players to their teams that aren't leaders of men. Very few teams actually have bonafide Leaders that can change a team for the better. Just looking at the last few drafts you can say that Roy, CP3 and Deron are those type of players. I'm not sure how many more there have been. Isiah made a mistake that MANY GM's make going after talent over character. Sometimes GM's just get lucky and end up with a guy like that even tho they weren't necessarily going into the draft saying "i'm looking for a team leader". Heck EVERY team could use a KG, but there really aren't many like him in terms of his integrity and will to win. His work ethic and dedication. Not to mention his talent. No one ever said that Isiah was a great GM, so it's not that surprising to see him taking a while to really get it.

I've liked his draft picks for where we were drafting, even tho it's arguable that he could've made some better picks at times. The question is why did he decide to go after the players that he did, instead of looking to rebuild with top picks and possibly getting a team leader? Well I think Dolan had some part to play, since he wants quick results and splashy names to sell tickets, which is his primary concern. Let's not forget that. Dolan is the one who said he wanted the playoffs when he hired Isiah. Not much later we added Steph and started on this road. Yeah Isiah may have been in complete argreement or maybe not, but regardless he would've had to bow to Dolan's wishes. Ultimately, Dolan doesn't want a full rebuild and if he did we wouldn't have traded for the players we have all of these years, including the Layden years.

We keep saying that Dolan wanted "playoffs or else" and that Isiah made moves because of that. Yet here we are at year 3, 15 games under .500n and Dolan hasn't fired him and has actually extended him. So that "playoff or else" excuse to me is a falsehood. The bottom line is Isiah started from the ground floor with the Layden roster. Ny was screaming for an identity. When Marbs did not turn out to be the guy, it was time to take a step back and find a leader. Enough with the Garnett talk. IT didn't have to be Garnett. IT could have been a 10 pt a night guy. But someone that Isiah gave the reigns to. Then the acquisitions that followed should have been similar players. Guys that played the game the right way and understood how to win, so that they can teach the young guys. The moment he got Curry, there should have been a vet big guy by his side or backing him up. Instead we have acquired nothing but young guys from losing teams. They aren't losers. But they have come from losing situations. They need someone to teach them how to win. This is so obvious it's painful. Isiah has missed it. Probably because people keep making excuses for him
I just hope that people will like me
sebstar
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1/22/2008  6:15 PM
Knicks could have come up with a superior package.

Lee/Balkman/Frye...last years number one and next years pick. Either Crawford or Nate. Throw in Malik for future cap space. Some sort of deal involving all of the aforementioned is better than the Celtics deal.

The Bulls could have easily come up with a better deal than the Celtics.

I'm not hating. I wish were straight handed a player like KG. But truth is truth.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Bonn1997
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1/22/2008  6:25 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Knicks could have come up with a superior package.

Lee/Balkman/Frye...last years number one and next years pick. Either Crawford or Nate. Throw in Malik for future cap space. Some sort of deal involving all of the aforementioned is better than the Celtics deal.

The Bulls could have easily come up with a better deal than the Celtics.

I'm not hating. I wish were straight handed a player like KG. But truth is truth.

No way. That deal doesn't even have one two way 20/10 player. Just a bunch of question marks and one solid role player in Lee.
TheGame
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1/22/2008  6:28 PM
We are not getting KG but Elton Brand would be a good alternative. He plays defense, can score and would be a better fit next to Curry than Randolph. Trade the Clippers Randolph, Balkman, and Collins and $3 mill in cash for a resigned Brand. That would be a big start in the right direction.
Trust the Process
oohah
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1/22/2008  6:42 PM
Posted by TheGame:

We are not getting KG but Elton Brand would be a good alternative. He plays defense, can score and would be a better fit next to Curry than Randolph. Trade the Clippers Randolph, Balkman, and Collins and $3 mill in cash for a resigned Brand. That would be a big start in the right direction.

That ain't getting us Elton Brand.

oohah

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TrueBlue
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1/22/2008  7:04 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Vmart:

You guys can bash Isiah for everything he has done but he is right about the KG trade those two Celtics GM bitch slapped the entire league with the deal. Phil Jackson still questions the deal and to me Phil Jackson usually tells it like it is. This was a deal that the league should have not allowed. This was a deal between friends and that has very little basketball deraling involved in it.

I guess Minnesota and the Celtics shouldn't be allowed to make trades with each other as long as Danny and Mchale are the GM's.(rolling eyes)

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-22-2008 4:21 PM]

Keep rolling your eyes, but you know that if ten other teams came with better offers for KG they wouldn't have taken it. You should have friends but when friend make a deal that effects most of the league in a negative manner then this was a dirty deal. Its like Boston has a farm system in the Wolves.


Pure speculation. You can't even name 10 teams that were seriously interested and name 5 teams who made substantiated offers. Stop Fretting over the unknown. The trade put Boston back on the map. David Stern message to you is

"go suck on an egg while I enjoy one of my biggest market in the league revive itself".



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-22-2008 6:10 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Bonn1997
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1/22/2008  7:05 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Vmart:

You guys can bash Isiah for everything he has done but he is right about the KG trade those two Celtics GM bitch slapped the entire league with the deal. Phil Jackson still questions the deal and to me Phil Jackson usually tells it like it is. This was a deal that the league should have not allowed. This was a deal between friends and that has very little basketball deraling involved in it.

I guess Minnesota and the Celtics shouldn't be allowed to make trades with each other as long as Danny and Mchale are the GM's.(rolling eyes)

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-22-2008 4:21 PM]

Keep rolling your eyes, but you know that if ten other teams came with better offers for KG they wouldn't have taken it. You should have friends but when friend make a deal that effects most of the league in a negative manner then this was a dirty deal. Its like Boston has a farm system in the Wolves.
How did it affect the league negatively???

sebstar
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1/22/2008  11:09 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by sebstar:

Knicks could have come up with a superior package.

Lee/Balkman/Frye...last years number one and next years pick. Either Crawford or Nate. Throw in Malik for future cap space. Some sort of deal involving all of the aforementioned is better than the Celtics deal.

The Bulls could have easily come up with a better deal than the Celtics.

I'm not hating. I wish were straight handed a player like KG. But truth is truth.

No way. That deal doesn't even have one two way 20/10 player. Just a bunch of question marks and one solid role player in Lee.

The knicks deal gives them more picks at better slots. Remember, the value of Lee and Balkman was higher at the start of the season than it is now. Nate was coming off of a summer league MVP. True, the Knicks couldnt offer a player the caliber of Jefferson, but it would have been an overall better package, IMO.

A Bulls package would have blown the Celtics out of the water.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
iyamwutiam
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1/23/2008  12:32 AM
Thank you nixluva!!

I have repeatedly said the same thing - that Dolan basically did not want to go and do a full rebuild. He hired isiah for the drafting mainly - as the Knicks have drafted terribly for DECADES before he got here.

Marbury - was a Dolan 'need' in my view for two reasons- generate excitement and ticket sales and serve as a lynchpin for a 'compromised' rebuilding and fulfill his deluded hope that the Knicks were not as bad as he thought (a bit like the fans -- no doubt- who never onced wondered why despite year after year of having the highest payroll in the NBA - they couldn't be like the Yankees and have more than one championship in the 70s to SHOW for it- but hey we made the playoffs and got to the finals once - woo-hoo go Knicks).

BTW - the Knicks DID make the playoffs in Isiah's first year only to get throughly swept by the Nets. The next yeat Wilkens was hired (it's always the coaches fault-never the management -that failed to get enough talent). We all know the story - then in comes Larry Brown and then out he goes. Dolan needed to learn that rebuilding does take time and also takes losses to get high draft picks - look at Portland and Chicago.

As for leadership on the roster- before you can have that -you need leadership in management. As the saying goes in the Denzel movie 'Attitude reflects leadership'. If you are having two hall of fame coaches who don't even get to stick around and each has different approach - then how and why do you expect players to remain interested, focused and develop - despite whatever they make. Try that with a company and have two diferent types of CEOs in two years wh want to do things their own way - and see what happens to company morale.

I doubt any GM thinks its a great idea to hire to Hall of fame coaches back to back. I doubt any GM waits for only a year to change course on any hall of fame coach. I doubt any GM thinks its a great idea to to give up draft pick after draft pick for Antonio Davis/E Curry ad Marbury. I mean if we can see it - maybe Isiah can too? A lot of people here- feel that because you have a GM position - that yo u have carte blanche. Well i guess very few have worked in management. You must all have your own business where you are the boss. But out there - I know a lot of high level managers at the state and national level - who see **** go on every day - and do it and tolerate it - because if you don't - you don't get another job. Thats the real world.

Lastly- as I have repeatedly asked- why would you fire two hall of fame coaches (giving them ONLY one year) but miraculously and 'blindly' and one who had an embarrasing court case give your GM an extension. Only one reason - he has learned to play ball with you and by playing ball with the organization and by keeping his mouth shut and letting the team get worse - kept his job. This happenes EVERYDAY - especially in govrrnment - or haven't we seen that a single case of out and out corruption in the defense department (Halliburton is just one) has never been prosecuted- but also in business (Angelo Mozillo waking away with 150 MILLION dollars for what?!!?- he knew and we all knew the housing market was going to tank - I shorted that stock every month for the last year-hence the extra free time I have to join forums :)).

Anyway - enuf said . I know - it's all Isiah's fault - he sucks, he's terrible , he is responsible - after all - we are all to righteous to do 'things' to keep our job and slowly let management 'get' it.





[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-23-2008 12:37 AM]

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-23-2008 12:40 AM]
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