Absolutely- :
1. Marbury, the LB trades for Antonio Davis, Francis and Jale Rose- really hindered movements toward say a KG type player. The above 3 represent close to 100 million in contracts of whihc 30M was for a buyout of rose, we still ended up paying Antonio Davis and the Francis salary necissitated us giving up Arriza and taking on a huge salary - that forced us to swap for Randolph. I am thinkingJames goes here as well.

2. In addition - the time variable was definitely skewed out. I mean imagine - if he didn't trae for Marbs (2 picks) , say he still did it for Curry -but with out Antonio Davis - only maybe 1 first round pick for that and no swap- so we would have had a pick last year in the top 10- maybe a Mike Conley-so our woeful depth in the backcourt would be addressed.

The youth would have played all of 2005 and would be where they are in terms of production (especially Nate, Crawford, Lee) - last year .

There are bad contracts :
1. Q Rich
2. Probably Jeffries

But I doubt people would be in such a tizzy. Because then - our salary cap would prolly be close to 58 M this year. Giving us more options- we may have had a M. Conley in the back court to provide much needed depth.

I don't think - that Isiah woud have been seen as an 'outstanding' GM - but he wouldn't be seen as a horrible GM - which is a big difference. That being said - I don't think we would be more than a 40 win team ths year anyway. Chicago/Miami/Nets -performances this year would definitely have given Isiah more of a 'benefit' of the doubt.


The teams that were rebuilding are coming into their own in the east. Cleveland - has stuck with their line up and are playing well - despite hughes, etc. Varejo, Gooden, Gibson, Ilkasgus etc seem to be jelling more and more each year. Washington - same thing - with the emergence of Butler- it seems like the trio of Jameson, Arenas, are maing teams take notice - especially Boston. Heyworth, Andre Blatche, Pecherov etc are slowly providing the bigs they need. Detroit is still talented, the Magic definitely are jeling with Turkalo, Howard, Nelson and getting another outside shooter in Rashard Lewis has helped.

In my opinion - the east as a whole has gotten a lot better since 2003 - when it was basically Detroit. So- I don't think we would have been deep into the playoffs- especially with the emergence of Boston but we might have made it to the playoffs this year and have better cohesion.

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-22-2008 12:10 PM]

Posted by BasketballJones:

You guys are all wrong. It was Layden who did the Marbury & Curry trades, as well as the Rose, James, and Francis trades.

That man has a lot to answer for.

i would just like to know where waldo is in all of this???

Another year of moral victories. Awesome!

Posted by kam77:

Martin and Andrew should create a test on recent Knick history and the Collective Bargaining Agreement as it relates to trade restrictions and then make all newbies pass the test in order to post here. Just a thought. Call me the Prince.

**** that. There should be a 5 post minimum in the Alba thread.

Posted by iyamwutiam:

Did we -

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/curry_traded_051004.html

October 4, 2005 – The Chicago Bulls convey to the New York Knicks the contract of Antonio Davis and the signed-and-traded contract of Eddy Curry. In exchange, New York conveys to Chicago the contracts of Tim Thomas and Michael Sweetney, the signed-and-traded contract of Jermaine Jackson, and New York’s regular second round draft choice in 2007 and 2009.

In addition, New York conveys to Chicago, New York’s 2006 regular first round draft choice on condition that the pick does not actually go to Utah (due to not being number 26-30) and also on condition that New York receives San Antonio’s 2006 regular first round selection (due to being number 11-30).

If New York’s 2006 first round does go to Utah (due to being number 26-30), and New York does receive San Antonio’s 2006 first round pick (due to being number 11-30), New York conveys to Chicago that San Antonio first round selection.

In addition, New York also conveys to Chicago the right to switch first round draft picks with New York in 2007 provided that New York’s first round selection does not go to Utah (is not number 25-30). Per team policy, terms of the contract were not disclosed. This trade is conditional upon the players passing their physicals.

Your right Andrew- am I reading this correctly- I read- 2 second round picks, one first round pick and a swap of the 2007 pick?

We gave up the contracts of Thomas, Sweetney, Jackson (expiring) for Curry/Antonio Davis, 2 secound round picks , a first round pick and a swap of first round picks?

Let me know- it's a bit confusing. I agree- I need to take a break - there have been so many moves etc - I am coming across quite confused (which I am)- sorry guys.

And thanks again Andrew (bless you).

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-22-2008 10:54 AM]

Yes we did. We gave up one lottery pick without any exchange and then another lottery pick with an exchange for a pick a dozen spots lower for fat eddy. (And we gave up early 2nd round picks and expiring contracts too.)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 01-22-2008 1:34 PM]

LOL- I would say - that given the situation he came into - it would have taken atleast 5 years. That Dolan giving him an extension is based on :
1. HE never got to run it his way
2. LB was a mistake that Dolan is taking responsibility for and perhaps Marbury

The part about Marbury is speculation - but I doubt that Isiah being an elite PG -thought that Marbury was worth two first round draftpicks. I ca see Dolan thinking - thats it- we get Marbury back- and the sheeple will love it.

So what we have is: .
Curry - does have potential - he proved it last year
Randolph does have potential - he is proving it this year
Jamal- is proving it this year
Nate is proving it this year
Jeffries is proving to be valuable - but has still not become the player he could be
Lee- same thing - except he realy needs a 5-10 foot jumper- i think seeing Randoph with his sweet shot- will make him focus more on learning the 10-15 foot shot.

What we do know:
1. Q Rich was and is a bust- for what he is getting paid and what he is producing - I can not deny this was a terrible signing - the only positive out of this is Nate
2. James- no clue what he is doing here - so definitely a negative


What we don't know :
1. Why is Morris Randolph, Wilson Chandler and Mardy getting no burn? Either they are not ready yet - or he is working his core (Curry/Randolph/Jamal/Lee/Nate/Jeffries as much as possible to get them that cohesion).
2. Is Mardy Collins and Randolph a bust? Why have Mardy Collins and Jamal Crawford - never been taught how to post up (since they are big guards-over 6'6" on guys like Rajon Rondo and other small guards-to get easy points and draw people over to them - so they can feed their big men in the post.
3. Why can't this team get their assignments straight - half -the season is officially over - and while they are definitely not as clueless as they were in the beginning of the season - they still get fooled a lot - especially when having to cover bigs in the interior.
4. Balkman - for all his intangibles is not getting minutes- why- I suspect its nore than Isiah doesn't like him (since Isiah did go way out there for this guy in the draft). perhaps because he is not working his tail off like Lee and Robinson.

All in all- if you buy the LB fiasco and perhaps the Marbury as a lynchpin - till the core is ready- Isiah has not done a bad job. We already have two/three assets this year in terms of Lee/Balkman/Jamal other people 'really' want- and who knows -maybe Randolph. Before - this year started I am sure some people were thiking about Curry - I mean you don't find many (non-franchise player) centers who average 20/8 in less than 30 minutes a game.

Compare this to Paxson who had more purview than Isiah and had more talent to work with since Krause had stockpiled a lot of draft picks before due to years of losing - such as Elton Brand, artest, Mercer etc.:

Gave up both Chandler and Curry. Signed Hinrich to a 10 M per year contract good till 2012. Wallace (who nobody wants mainly for his lack of offense, and huge salary)-basically 4 years 52 M or 18M a year -(Curry at 9M)and Nocioni to 8.5M . But has yet to sign their best players (ben Gordon and Deng), drafted two bigs high in the draft - both of whom can't really score in the post.

I would say at this point - I say ugh is probably a C+


[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-22-2008 3:10 PM]

IF you think about it, Isiah is really an amazing guy. He has been able to turn over the roster 3 times, bring in 25 coaches, 3 or 4 franchise players and still 4 years into his regime he has still convinced some of us that moral victories are what we are striving for.