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Zach Randolph - What do we do with him?
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BlueSeats
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1/4/2008  11:41 PM
Posted by BigC:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by SlimPack:

I don't think Randolph would impede Bynum's growth. With a good coach like phil I think Randolph and be pretty good. anway the default answer to this question is yes you do trade Randolph because everyone on this roster save maybe 1 or 2 guys should be traded.
Good point. People ignore that fact that Isiah is a horrible coach. Phil Jackson the majority of times works good with big men.

phil jackson and big men:

cartwright, horace grant - do either of them demand the ball?
wennington/longley, rodman - do they?
shaq, horace grant - does horace?

bynum is developing into a big time big man. he's getting more and more touches. if you were the gm, why would you bring in zach and possibly not only hurt your chemistry but hurt his development. if you were kupchak, would you make that trade? if you were phil, why take on that unnecessary challenge? that's like an almost all-in move which has a much higher chance to fail than succeed.

Are you really saying that Phil Zach can't coach Zach? For the most part Phil Jackson has brought out the best in his big men. You really are under estimating Phil's coaching ability. Phil Jackson brings out the best in players. Whether they demand the ball or not. Zach has played well before. This is not his first time in the league. He played on a Blazers team that shared the ball in the past. The last couple of years in Portland the team was not that good. Who was Zach suppose to pass to? Roy missed many games last year.

Really are you saying Zach can't be coached by Phil Jackson when Zach has been coached by coaches that are not even on Phil Jackson level?



[Edited by - BigC on 01-04-2008 11:18 PM]


Has Phil been maximizing Odom?
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djsunyc
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1/4/2008  11:57 PM
maybe zach for larry hughes?
EnySpree
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1/5/2008  12:10 AM
Maybe we trade zach for bobby simmons and charlie v like I said in the thread I started earlier today.
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BigC
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1/5/2008  12:15 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by SlimPack:

I don't think Randolph would impede Bynum's growth. With a good coach like phil I think Randolph and be pretty good. anway the default answer to this question is yes you do trade Randolph because everyone on this roster save maybe 1 or 2 guys should be traded.
Good point. People ignore that fact that Isiah is a horrible coach. Phil Jackson the majority of times works good with big men.

phil jackson and big men:

cartwright, horace grant - do either of them demand the ball?
wennington/longley, rodman - do they?
shaq, horace grant - does horace?

bynum is developing into a big time big man. he's getting more and more touches. if you were the gm, why would you bring in zach and possibly not only hurt your chemistry but hurt his development. if you were kupchak, would you make that trade? if you were phil, why take on that unnecessary challenge? that's like an almost all-in move which has a much higher chance to fail than succeed.

Are you really saying that Phil Zach can't coach Zach? For the most part Phil Jackson has brought out the best in his big men. You really are under estimating Phil's coaching ability. Phil Jackson brings out the best in players. Whether they demand the ball or not. Zach has played well before. This is not his first time in the league. He played on a Blazers team that shared the ball in the past. The last couple of years in Portland the team was not that good. Who was Zach suppose to pass to? Roy missed many games last year.

Really are you saying Zach can't be coached by Phil Jackson when Zach has been coached by coaches that are not even on Phil Jackson level?



[Edited by - BigC on 01-04-2008 11:18 PM]


Has Phil been maximizing Odom?

I think for what Phil wants to run Odom is fitting into the game plan. Example Ron Harper Glen Rice (A scorer that had to change their games). Lamar has been through multiple injuries. I don't think he is that big scorer that everyone thinks he can be. That being said Odom is rebounding and shooting better than he has ever done in his career fg% wise. When I think of Odom I never consider him a big man. More like sf. I think Phil can teach Zach how to mix it up. Zach is aggressive that is what you want from a player. Now if Zach is pushed to mix it up like Nate Mcmillian got Zach to do I don't see why Phil Jackson would not be able to.

I think when people see Odom they think he is under achieving because he is not averaging big points in the regular season. However, if you look at him in the playoffs his offensive game steps up.

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TrueBlue
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1/5/2008  12:18 AM
Yikes

Hughes(He's like the guard version of K-Mart)
Bobby Simmons, Charlie V(talk about redundancy Simmons, CV, Jared, Q, Chandler, Balkman, Malik........WOW!)


We just need to trade Zach for expiring and hopeful high second round draft picks. Do the exact same type of trade Portland did with us.
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BlueSeats
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1/5/2008  12:37 AM
Posted by BigC:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by SlimPack:

I don't think Randolph would impede Bynum's growth. With a good coach like phil I think Randolph and be pretty good. anway the default answer to this question is yes you do trade Randolph because everyone on this roster save maybe 1 or 2 guys should be traded.
Good point. People ignore that fact that Isiah is a horrible coach. Phil Jackson the majority of times works good with big men.

phil jackson and big men:

cartwright, horace grant - do either of them demand the ball?
wennington/longley, rodman - do they?
shaq, horace grant - does horace?

bynum is developing into a big time big man. he's getting more and more touches. if you were the gm, why would you bring in zach and possibly not only hurt your chemistry but hurt his development. if you were kupchak, would you make that trade? if you were phil, why take on that unnecessary challenge? that's like an almost all-in move which has a much higher chance to fail than succeed.

Are you really saying that Phil Zach can't coach Zach? For the most part Phil Jackson has brought out the best in his big men. You really are under estimating Phil's coaching ability. Phil Jackson brings out the best in players. Whether they demand the ball or not. Zach has played well before. This is not his first time in the league. He played on a Blazers team that shared the ball in the past. The last couple of years in Portland the team was not that good. Who was Zach suppose to pass to? Roy missed many games last year.

Really are you saying Zach can't be coached by Phil Jackson when Zach has been coached by coaches that are not even on Phil Jackson level?



[Edited by - BigC on 01-04-2008 11:18 PM]


Has Phil been maximizing Odom?

I think for what Phil wants to run Odom is fitting into the game plan. Example Ron Harper Glen Rice (A scorer that had to change their games). Lamar has been through multiple injuries. I don't think he is that big scorer that everyone thinks he can be. That being said Odom is rebounding and shooting better than he has ever done in his career fg% wise. When I think of Odom I never consider him a big man. More like sf. I think Phil can teach Zach how to mix it up. Zach is aggressive that is what you want from a player. Now if Zach is pushed to mix it up like Nate Mcmillian got Zach to do I don't see why Phil Jackson would not be able to.

I think when people see Odom they think he is under achieving because he is not averaging big points in the regular season. However, if you look at him in the playoffs his offensive game steps up.

I agree with your assessment of Odom as SF, but he's had a lot of problems meshing his game with Kobe's, and bringing his motor on a consistent basis. Phil hasn't exactly maximized Odom, that's one reason they've struggled up till now and why he's always in trade rumors. I think Odom's best year was with Riley and Wade because he scored well and facilitated the offense.

Which is just to say that Phil maximizes teams, not players. It's not like you can give him anybody and expect it to work, he makes trades too. He might like Zach, but he doesn't fit his usual bigman profile. i think he['d rather stay with Odom and get someone more physical and lower maintenance upfront. I think someone like Lee would work better for them.
arkrud
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1/5/2008  12:46 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by SlimPack:

I don't think Randolph would impede Bynum's growth. With a good coach like phil I think Randolph and be pretty good. anway the default answer to this question is yes you do trade Randolph because everyone on this roster save maybe 1 or 2 guys should be traded.
Good point. People ignore that fact that Isiah is a horrible coach. Phil Jackson the majority of times works good with big men.

phil jackson and big men:

cartwright, horace grant - do either of them demand the ball?
wennington/longley, rodman - do they?
shaq, horace grant - does horace?

bynum is developing into a big time big man. he's getting more and more touches. if you were the gm, why would you bring in zach and possibly not only hurt your chemistry but hurt his development. if you were kupchak, would you make that trade? if you were phil, why take on that unnecessary challenge? that's like an almost all-in move which has a much higher chance to fail than succeed.

Are you really saying that Phil Zach can't coach Zach? For the most part Phil Jackson has brought out the best in his big men. You really are under estimating Phil's coaching ability. Phil Jackson brings out the best in players. Whether they demand the ball or not. Zach has played well before. This is not his first time in the league. He played on a Blazers team that shared the ball in the past. The last couple of years in Portland the team was not that good. Who was Zach suppose to pass to? Roy missed many games last year.

Really are you saying Zach can't be coached by Phil Jackson when Zach has been coached by coaches that are not even on Phil Jackson level?



[Edited by - BigC on 01-04-2008 11:18 PM]


Has Phil been maximizing Odom?

I think for what Phil wants to run Odom is fitting into the game plan. Example Ron Harper Glen Rice (A scorer that had to change their games). Lamar has been through multiple injuries. I don't think he is that big scorer that everyone thinks he can be. That being said Odom is rebounding and shooting better than he has ever done in his career fg% wise. When I think of Odom I never consider him a big man. More like sf. I think Phil can teach Zach how to mix it up. Zach is aggressive that is what you want from a player. Now if Zach is pushed to mix it up like Nate Mcmillian got Zach to do I don't see why Phil Jackson would not be able to.

I think when people see Odom they think he is under achieving because he is not averaging big points in the regular season. However, if you look at him in the playoffs his offensive game steps up.

I agree with your assessment of Odom as SF, but he's had a lot of problems meshing his game with Kobe's, and bringing his motor on a consistent basis. Phil hasn't exactly maximized Odom, that's one reason they've struggled up till now and why he's always in trade rumors. I think Odom's best year was with Riley and Wade because he scored well and facilitated the offense.

Which is just to say that Phil maximizes teams, not players. It's not like you can give him anybody and expect it to work, he makes trades too. He might like Zach, but he doesn't fit his usual bigman profile. i think he['d rather stay with Odom and get someone more physical and lower maintenance upfront. I think someone like Lee would work better for them.

Zack need 20 shots to be effective.
With Kobe already taking 25 where you will get 20 for Zack.
Forget it...

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JohnWallace44
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1/5/2008  12:49 AM
you have to get Zach in shape first of all. A slim ZBo is a much better player than DLee.
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arkrud
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1/5/2008  12:52 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

you have to get Zach in shape first of all. A slim ZBo is a much better player than DLee.

Slim Zbo... Who is this guy?
Nobody saw him yet.
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kam77
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1/5/2008  1:17 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

you have to get Zach in shape first of all. A slim ZBo is a much better player than DLee.

If we keep Zach though, like you and babyknicks say, then we'd have to find takers for Curry and Lee, Right? And then we're stuck building around Zach and not having cap room until 4 offseasons from now.

I think Cleveland is looking like a good candidate. They have lots of long expensive deals and they have lots of short mid-level deals. We should be able to extort a first rounder out of them and take their junk that expires next year with Malik and Marbs.

I'm sure someone here can come up with something: http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm

Make it interesting... if we're taking back Hughes for Randolph, then send them a nice SG like Crawford to take some late game pressure off LeBrons shoulders. That'll make it a larger deal... say Randolph and Crawford (Cassell and Spree anyone?) for Hughes, Marshall, and Pavlovic. Try to get them to throw in picks too.


[Edited by - kam77 on 01-05-2008 01:20 AM]
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JohnWallace44
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1/5/2008  1:21 AM
is it too crazy to just sub one in for the other all the time and play each 24 minutes a game?
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1/5/2008  2:35 AM
Kam, I think Randolph has minimal value, but I do think the one team that will take him is the Heat (as you mentioned the other day)
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1/5/2008  2:49 AM
At this point, the only way we're able to dump Zach is if we include Lee. Now, when I say dump Zach and include Lee, I mean for an expiring contract(s) or 2 year and less contracts. Yes that is harsh, but the reality is we're not winning with Zach and we sure as hell aren't winning with whatever long term cap killing bloated sh it some team would give us for Zach straight up. Sorry guys but that is reality. We could buy out Zach, but the goal is to completely rebuild and Zach on a buyout would still count major dollars on the cap for the next 3 years. Can't have that. Chubbs and Crawful could probably be traded for a late round pick plus contracts 2 years and less. That would leave us with only Jeffries who has still has 3 years on his deal. So the goal should be to suck for the next 2 years and be under the cap by a lot in year 3. That should be the 3 year plan that our next gm should embark on. Anything else, keeps us in mediocrity for the next decade.
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1/5/2008  2:54 AM
whether we like it or not, he's a keeper cuz no other team in the NBA is stupid enough to take on that salary of his but us for another 2 years at the bare minimum unless they're dumping even more longterm salary back at us.
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1/5/2008  3:01 AM
Posted by TMS:

whether we like it or not, he's a keeper cuz no other team in the NBA is stupid enough to take on that salary of his but us for another 2 years at the bare minimum unless they're dumping even more longterm salary back at us.


Well if we can't trade his lame ass for at least 2 year and less contracts, then buy him out. Be done with this ahole cause NOBODY goes to the arena to watch Zach Randolph play. We can lose with him and we can lose without him and I'd MUCH rather watch Wilson Chandler at PF every night than the surly dikhead Zach Randolph.
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1/5/2008  3:21 AM
I don't think Randolph's value is that low. I think we can trade him to Cleveland for something like Donyell Marshal, Eric Snow, and Cedric SImmons. He's averaging 17 and 10 in a terrible situation. He can probably still put up 20 an 10 on a good team.
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1/5/2008  4:01 AM
u can't buy out a $60 million dollar contract... u have to make due w/him on the roster & try to make it work somehow... try & work out a trade of Eddy Curry to someplace that needs a low post offensive player & balance out the roster by bringing in some post defenders to play w/Zach in the paint.
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majorleads
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1/5/2008  5:48 AM
Posted by SlimPack:

I don't think Randolph's value is that low. I think we can trade him to Cleveland for something like Donyell Marshal, Eric Snow, and Cedric SImmons. He's averaging 17 and 10 in a terrible situation. He can probably still put up 20 an 10 on a good team.

Oh really? You think it can't get any lower than Channing Frye and the buyout of Frankensteins 30 plus million? Come on! His value is MUCH lower than that after being a total disaster here. Portland basically PAID US 30 million dollars to get rid of him!

And think again if Lebron James agrees to play with Zach Randolph. Thats not happening.

And so what if Zach puts up 20 and 10. It's meaningless because every GM in the league (except Isiah) knows Zach Randolph is a team cancer. Even dumbass Isiah must now realize this because he's benched him.

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majorleads
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1/5/2008  5:50 AM
Posted by TMS:

u can't buy out a $60 million dollar contract... u have to make due w/him on the roster & try to make it work somehow... try & work out a trade of Eddy Curry to someplace that needs a low post offensive player & balance out the roster by bringing in some post defenders to play w/Zach in the paint.

In Jimmy Dolan's Garden of Dreams you can buy out anyone. Keeping Zach here? Why? That is called wasting our time for the next 3 1/2 seasons.
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EnySpree
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1/5/2008  6:41 AM
What about Dallas? They need a low post guy that can still shoot it and board. That team hasn't made a trade in a while....they could use another dimension come playoff time.

Edit: forget that they have some ugly contracts over there.....and devin harris is the only real desireable.

[Edited by - enyspree on 05-01-2008 06:52 AM]
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Zach Randolph - What do we do with him?
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