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Clemens' trainer to sue him (Clemens)...
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majorleads
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1/9/2008  6:06 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by TMS:

& what the hell does Duquette have to do w/any of this? so because he told Clemens that he was done, that means he was done, is that it? he is suddenly the God of baseball as far as you're concerned... what he says goes... please, stop being silly.

The point of Duquette is as soon as he told Roger his career was over, according to the report Clemens supposedly started using, and it is reflected in his #s in Toronto.
Posted by TMS:

how about how his #'s levelled off over the 5 years he pitched in NY when the allegations were that he was still juicing? or should we only be focusing on the 2 years he had in TOR after some shlub who never played in the majors told 1 of the alltime HOF pitchers that he didn't have it anymore?

The report didn't say he was a constant user, but that he used for periods of 4-6 weeks at a time. Eventually age catches up no matter what drugs you are on.

for the 1 millionth time, i believe it is LIKELY that he did use roids... the argument that you & your intelligent friend seem incapable of understanding here is that hearsay evidence cannot possibly be used to convict anyone beyond a shadow of a doubt.

the fact that the entire Mitchell report has been based on this hearsay testimony of a man of very questionable character who was once fired from the Yankees for having allegedly sexually assaulting a woman by administering a date rape drug & is now trying to stay out of jail by offering up names in this steroid investigation is a pathetic joke.

even more of a joke is the fact that Selig & MLB have actually endorsed this report without having any other solid factual information that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt these players' guilt & has thereby completely ruined their reputations & negatively effected their livelihoods when it was Selig & MLB that BENEFITTED all these years while KNOWINGLY endorsing these players!

like i said before, this entire Mitchell investigation & all the ridiculous grandstanding by Selig & by MLB is a complete farce... they would have been much better off simply commissioning a book as a private effort separate from the game instead of putting MLB's endorsement behind such shoddy evidence.

Oh so you're now saying McNamee is of "questionable character" because he ALLEGEDLY was accused of sexually assaulting a woman, but, if he is of "questionable character," then what does that say for Roger Clemens who employed him?

Also, why would McNamee tell the truth about Andy but lie about Roger? Keep in mind, if McNamee is lying then he would go to jail. And don't you find Roger to be less than truthful when he says he had no clue Andy took HGH? How is that possible? Roger and McNamee were very tight and for Roger to say he was clueless about steroids, is beyond belief. Another lie.

Then Roger tells a lie when he says he had no idea he would be named in the Mitchell report, that he didn't find out until it was made public. Lie. In fact Roger was informed about the report, knew he was named and had a private investigator interview McNamee to find out what he said.

Why would Roger wait a month to file a lawsuit? Why was Roger not furious with McNamee on the phone? If you were accused of cheating when in fact you were not, wouldn't you be irate? Wouldn't you come out IMMEDIATELY and refute everything?

Now I guess according to you we can't say Roger is 100% guilty because of "hearsay," but, he sure as hell is a liar.
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TMS
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1/9/2008  6:09 PM
u seriously refuse to get the point i'm making here obviously... i'm wasting my time with you as per usual.
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majorleads
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1/9/2008  6:17 PM
Posted by TMS:

u seriously refuse to get the point i'm making here obviously... i'm wasting my time with you as per usual.

And you refuse to answer the questions.
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TMS
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1/9/2008  6:24 PM
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

u seriously refuse to get the point i'm making here obviously... i'm wasting my time with you as per usual.

And you refuse to answer the questions.

your questions were already answered a long time ago but you're too obtuse to even realize it.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-09-2008 3:25 PM]
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majorleads
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1/9/2008  6:29 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

u seriously refuse to get the point i'm making here obviously... i'm wasting my time with you as per usual.

And you refuse to answer the questions.

your answers were already answered a long time ago but you're too obtuse to even realize it.

You haven't answered anything. You're putting it all on McNamee to show us the proof, but you have never acknowledged Roger's inconsistencies.
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TMS
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1/9/2008  6:54 PM
you really are dense dude... this entire time i've been arguing over the fact that the Mitchell report being endorsed by Selig & MLB based on hearsay testimony has been a farce...

i haven't been arguing that Rocket is innocent... only that the so-called evidence that the Mitchell report was based on is shaky at best

u really need to read the posts before you comment... it would save us all a whole boatload of time & aggravation.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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1/9/2008  7:30 PM
Posted by majorleads:

Oh so you're now saying McNamee is of "questionable character" because he ALLEGEDLY was accused of sexually assaulting a woman, but, if he is of "questionable character," then what does that say for Roger Clemens who employed him?

dude, he not only was accused of sexual assault, he lied to Police detectives about it when he was questioned:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/01/08/mcnamee.lawsuit.ap/index.html?section=si_latest
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) -- Detectives believed the former New York Yankees trainer who says he injected Roger Clemens with steroids lied to them during the 2001 investigation of a possible rape, according to documents released Tuesday by police.

Police said Brian McNamee denied having sex with a possibly drugged woman in a hotel pool, even though security guards and other witnesses said they saw him.


McNamee hired a New York attorney, who called detectives to arrange an interview.

"I explained to him that his client did talk with me once, and he lied to me," St. Petersburg Police Detective Donald Crotty wrote in a report.

The state attorney's office, however, decided not to press charges.

Clemens cited the incident as an example of McNamee's dishonesty in a defamation lawsuit filed Sunday in Texas.

The seven-time Cy Young Award winner says his former personal trainer lied to baseball investigator George Mitchell to avoid prosecution when he said he injected Clemens at least 16 times with steroids and human growth hormone in 1998, 2000 and 2001. Clemens acknowledged receiving injections from McNamee but said they were vitamin B-12 and the painkiller lidocaine.

"The significant thing is, when this guy's rear end is in trouble, does he lie?" said Rusty Hardin, Clemens' attorney.

The defamation suit states: "McNamee's explanation was totally at odds with the conclusions of the police officers conducting the official investigation in St. Petersburg."

Earl Ward, one of McNamee's attorney, denied the St. Petersburg incident had any bearing on his client's credibility. He said McNamee's statement about Clemens was found credible by the staff of former Senate majority leader Mitchell and federal law enforcement officials investigating steroid use in professional sports.

"The bottom line is that allegation in Florida was investigated, and it went nowhere," Ward said.

"It's just an attempt to further damage his character," he said. "It has no relevance."

The records released Tuesday by the St. Petersburg police show McNamee was suspected of raping a woman he had met at the Renaissance Vinoy Resort in October 2001. The Yankees were in town to close out the regular season against the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, and many players and support staff were staying at the upscale resort.

McNamee was having sex with the woman in the resort's pool and didn't stop when confronted by security, the documents say. Police were notified. When they arrived, they found McNamee had helped the woman out of the pool and get dressed, according to the documents. Groggy and incoherent, she was taken to the hospital, where the documents said she was found to have GHB, the "date-rape drug," in her system.

The woman told detectives she could not remember details of the encounter in the pool. She said she did not give McNamee permission to have sex with her, and witnesses told detectives they had heard her saying "no" during the encounter, according to the documents.

Detectives later recovered some of her jewelry, an empty beer can and a water bottle containing GHB at the side of the pool.

Police interviewed McNamee hours later, according to the documents, and he denied having sex with the woman or knowing Yankees batting practice pitcher, Charles Wonsowicz, who was also in the pool. McNamee refused to submit a saliva sample for DNA analysis, the documents said.


Although the state attorney's office decided not to press charges, the accusations ended McNamee's career with the Yankees.

again, testimony from this guy is what Senator Mitchell & Selig chose to accept as fact & base this entire report on? how much of a joke is this?
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majorleads
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1/9/2008  7:37 PM
Posted by TMS:

you really are dense dude... this entire time i've been arguing over the fact that the Mitchell report being endorsed by Selig & MLB based on hearsay testimony has been a farce...

i haven't been arguing that Rocket is innocent... only that the so-called evidence that the Mitchell report was based on is shaky at best

u really need to read the posts before you comment... it would save us all a whole boatload of time & aggravation.

Why is the evidence shaky? It wasn't shaky with regards to Pettitte. I haven't heard anything from Paul Lo Duca and the majority of players named. You'd think all these players would come out furiously denying they did roids and sue. Nope of course not because they are all guilty!

Anyway, below is a link to a nice roundup from ESPN which links each player in the report to Radomski, McNamee and steroids. Although with some players there is not a paper trail, you would have to assume Radomski and McNamee are telling the truth because why in the hell would they rattle off players who they don't have a paper trail from?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646
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TMS
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1/9/2008  7:47 PM
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

you really are dense dude... this entire time i've been arguing over the fact that the Mitchell report being endorsed by Selig & MLB based on hearsay testimony has been a farce...

i haven't been arguing that Rocket is innocent... only that the so-called evidence that the Mitchell report was based on is shaky at best

u really need to read the posts before you comment... it would save us all a whole boatload of time & aggravation.

Why is the evidence shaky? It wasn't shaky with regards to Pettitte. I haven't heard anything from Paul Lo Duca and the majority of players named. You'd think all these players would come out furiously denying they did roids and sue. Nope of course not because they are all guilty!

Anyway, below is a link to a nice roundup from ESPN which links each player in the report to Radomski, McNamee and steroids. Although with some players there is not a paper trail, you would have to assume Radomski and McNamee are telling the truth because why in the hell would they rattle off players who they don't have a paper trail from?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646

last time i checked David Justice was vehemently denying the allegations the day they were made public.

& if there's a paper trail let them be made public before we formulate final judgements... that is the only thing i'm asking for here... to base everything off hearsay testimony is not only irresponsible, it's also a very dangerous practice.

if you've ever been falsely accused of something yourself & had to spend a night in jail because of it you'd know what i'm talking about... you have to get some real evidence before you come out public w/something like this... you're messing around w/people's families, reputations & livelihoods.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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1/10/2008  11:13 AM
let me just summarize everything i've said on this thread since it seems like the point isn't getting across... like i said Rocket isn't exactly the picture of innocence here... & taking the word of a police detective on an unrelated case shouldn't have that much bearing on this one, but it just goes to show that the source of this entire Mitchell report wasn't that reliable to begin with... i have a problem w/a report of this nature being endorsed by Selig & MLB when essentially it was based on hearsay testimony of a person w/a sketchy past, regardless if that testimony was the truth or not... i also think it's irresponsible to release the names of players w/o first presenting solid, fool proof documented evidence that the allegations were true... that doesn't mean that evidence doesn't exist, but if it does it should have been brought to light in this report.

it almost seems to me that releasing this report was Selig's way of giving the finger to the players & the Players' Union because he got very little cooperation from them when he was conducting this investigation... if he wanted to do that he shoulda written a book & staked his reputation on that as a private endeavor separate from the league instead of putting the MLB insignia on this entire deal... Selig's Steroids Manifesto is built entirely on shaky grounds & it's moronic to convict anyone based on something until you can FACTUALLY prove that all these accusations are 100% accurate.

i'm very interested to see the additional evidence that McNamee's team is preparing to prove that Rocket did in fact use... i'm also interested in seeing what Rocket's team is preparing to disprove these allegations... i'm trying to keep an open mind in this until more solid evidence comes to light that proves his guilt or innocence either way, but as of now if i had to bet my house on it, i'd say he probably used at some point during his HOF career... if Rocket is truly guilty them i'm sure the evidence will be brought against him during these Congressional hearings... McNamee is not the only one that has an interest in telling the truth here, let's not forget that... if Rocket lies he's gonna find himself under Federal indictment for perjory & face jail time along w/the complete ruination of his legacy, his reputation, his credibility & his life.
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majorleads
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1/15/2008  6:23 PM
The rocket is going to go down in flames. Mitchell is much more credible than him and strongly believes that what he put out is accurate. Listening to what Mitchell had to say today, I'm 100000000000000% convinced Clemens is a liar.
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Clemens' trainer to sue him (Clemens)...

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