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VDesai
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12/13/2007  3:09 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Roger Clemens is the biggest roid user EVER... he used so many ****ing steroids!!!!

This guy will NEVER come close to the Hall of Fame, what a goddamn joke.

Just to clarify- he's the biggest roid user who's story is detailed in this report.

There are lots of guys missing and this report doesn't go heavy into the details of those we already know about, namely Bonds, Canseco, Giambi, Sheff etc.
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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12/13/2007  3:09 PM
So should being on this list disqualify someone from the hall-of-fame? Discuss.
VDesai
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12/13/2007  3:12 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

So should being on this list disqualify someone from the hall-of-fame? Discuss.

I don't know. IF you told me most of the league was on steroids than it would've been a more level playing field, right?

But this report doesn't attempt to put a number on it or come close to quantifying just how widespread.

Reading through the report, I wonder what the purpose was other than to share with us some stories about some of the players who took steroids.
oohah
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12/13/2007  3:27 PM
Mike Piazza not on the list!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
babyKnicks
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12/13/2007  3:34 PM
Basically, everyone from every team.

Mets...

Paul Lo Duca
Paul Lo Duca is a catcher who has played with three teams in Major League
Baseball since 1998, the Los Angeles Dodgers (7 seasons), Florida Marlins (2 seasons), and New York Mets (2 seasons).

He has appeared in four All-Star games.
Todd Hundley referred Lo Duca to Radomski when Lo Duca played for the
Dodgers. Radomski estimated that he engaged in six or more transactions with Lo Duca. In
some transactions, Radomski sent the performance enhancing substances by overnight mail to
Lo Duca’s home or to the Dodgers clubhouse and Lo Duca sent Radomski a check a week or so
later.


Fernando Vina
Fernando Vina played several positions with five teams in Major League Baseball
from 1993 until 2004, the Seattle Mariners, New York Mets, Milwaukee Brewers, St. Louis
Cardinals, and Detroit Tigers. He played in the 1998 All-Star game and won two National
League Golden Glove Awards as a second baseman. During the 2007 baseball season, he was a
commentator for ESPN’s Baseball Tonight.

Scott Schoeneweis
On October 1, 2007, ESPN reported on its website that New York Mets pitcher
Scott Schoeneweis had received six shipments of steroids from Signature Pharmacy at Comiskey
Park while he was playing for the Chicago White Sox in 2003 and 2004.498 Dr. Ramon Scruggs
of the New Hope Health Center (the suspended California physician who also was reported to
have issued prescriptions for Troy Glaus) reportedly prescribed the drugs. According to ESPN,
Schoeneweis spent $1,160 on steroids, including testosterone and stanozolol.499 Schoeneweis
denied the report.500

[Edited by - babyknicks on 13-12-2007 08:37 AM]
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
VDesai
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12/13/2007  3:39 PM
It's actually not that comprehensive- its a lot of players from the mets, yanks, giants and orioles.

And there's a reason for that- his sources were the game of shadows book and players like Larry Bigbie, Jason Grimsley and the Mets trainer.
islesfan
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12/13/2007  3:47 PM
Any Red Sox players on the list?

This report is ridiculously biases against NY players. Aside from BALCO and other widely publicized cases, the 2 people who provided Mitchell with most of the "evidence" were closely associated with the Mets and the personal trainer of 2 high profile Yankees.

The fact that Mitchell couldn't get any help from people associated with any other teams makes the findings selective at best and disingenuous at worst.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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12/13/2007  3:49 PM
Posted by VDesai:

It's actually not that comprehensive- its a lot of players from the mets, yanks, giants and orioles.

And there's a reason for that- his sources were the game of shadows book and players like Larry Bigbie, Jason Grimsley and the Mets trainer.

It's ridiculous that a report purporting to be a comprehensive analysis of Major League Baseball's drug problem be so weighted against so few teams.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
VDesai
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12/13/2007  3:49 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Any Red Sox players on the list?

This report is ridiculously biases against NY players. Aside from BALCO and other widely publicized cases, the 2 people who provided Mitchell with most of the "evidence" were closely associated with the Mets and the personal trainer of 2 high profile Yankees.

The fact that Mitchell couldn't get any help from people associated with any other teams makes the findings selective at best and disingenuous at worst.

Eric Gagne, Mo Vaughn and a couple others but not many.

As you said there is a reason why it was biased towards the Yanks, Mets- its cause of the sources.

Boston did a good job of shutting their people up.
islesfan
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12/13/2007  3:54 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by islesfan:

Any Red Sox players on the list?

This report is ridiculously biases against NY players. Aside from BALCO and other widely publicized cases, the 2 people who provided Mitchell with most of the "evidence" were closely associated with the Mets and the personal trainer of 2 high profile Yankees.

The fact that Mitchell couldn't get any help from people associated with any other teams makes the findings selective at best and disingenuous at worst.

Eric Gagne, Mo Vaughn and a couple others but not many.

As you said there is a reason why it was biased towards the Yanks, Mets- its cause of the sources.

Boston did a good job of shutting their people up.

I'm sure it helped that one of their own was leading the investigation.

I wonder if Mitchell will get a nice little bonus when he starts receiving paychecks again from the Red Sox.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
VDesai
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12/13/2007  3:57 PM
This is the best transcription of players in the report I've seen so far:

Marvin Bernard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Verlarde
Lenny Dykstrka
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Todd Hundley
Hal Morris
Mark Carreon
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Greg Zaunn
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Merker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hariston Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Nook Logan
Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard
David Bell
Marvin Bernard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
TMS
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12/13/2007  3:58 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by VDesai:

Pettitte worked out with Clemens when he came to the Yanks and magically added 3-4 mph on his fastball.

That'll do it. I figured maybe he used them for his elbow recovery.

All the times I've heard in my life that Clemens is such a "workout machine" and he's "in such great shape" is such a joke. I hope he doesn't set foot near the HOF.

he was only injected twice according to what i heard on sportscenter & that was to speed his recovery from injury while we was w/the Yanks... there's nothing that suggests he used it as much as Rocket, but that may be a possibility considering he worked out w/Rocket on a daily basis.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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12/13/2007  4:00 PM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

I don't see any prominent Met players on that list

no wonder they've stunk all these years... get with the program!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
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12/13/2007  4:02 PM
Andy got in much better shape when Rocket got here and added velocity. I had long suspected him- just hurts that he's been one of the main guys here and that he's on there. I've never got behind Sheff, or Damon or Rocket or Giambi the same way b/c the majority of their careers were played somewhere else, but its a little different with Andy.
TMS
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12/13/2007  4:02 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Any Red Sox players on the list?

This report is ridiculously biases against NY players. Aside from BALCO and other widely publicized cases, the 2 people who provided Mitchell with most of the "evidence" were closely associated with the Mets and the personal trainer of 2 high profile Yankees.

The fact that Mitchell couldn't get any help from people associated with any other teams makes the findings selective at best and disingenuous at worst.

not to mention the fact that Mitchell is a damn director for the Red Sox & on their freakin' payroll!

Varitek is a bomb & ESPN hasn't even mentioned his name... they're only talking about Rocket & Andy... what a joke.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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12/13/2007  4:04 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:

Any Red Sox players on the list?

This report is ridiculously biases against NY players. Aside from BALCO and other widely publicized cases, the 2 people who provided Mitchell with most of the "evidence" were closely associated with the Mets and the personal trainer of 2 high profile Yankees.

The fact that Mitchell couldn't get any help from people associated with any other teams makes the findings selective at best and disingenuous at worst.

not to mention the fact that Mitchell is a damn director for the Red Sox & on their freakin' payroll!

Varitek is a bomb & ESPN hasn't even mentioned his name... they're only talking about Rocket & Andy... what a joke.

i don't think varitek was officially named in the report.
djsunyc
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12/13/2007  4:05 PM
i just can't get past the fact the my childhood idol, larry bigbie is on the list.

this changes everything. and trying to cover up that tattoo is gonna hurt...
TMS
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12/13/2007  4:06 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Andy got in much better shape when Rocket got here and added velocity. I had long suspected him- just hurts that he's been one of the main guys here and that he's on there. I've never got behind Sheff, or Damon or Rocket or Giambi the same way b/c the majority of their careers were played somewhere else, but its a little different with Andy.

no doubt, he did get bigger & added some velocity to that fastball, no denying that... there's no doubt that this report isn't even sniffing the tip of the iceberg in terms of names that are really involved... what irks me is hypocrites like Vina on ESPN bashing players like Bonds for using roids when he himself used them as a player... this guy should lose his job for that... what kind of journalistic integrity is that? actually considering the network he works for he's a perfect match i suppose.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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12/13/2007  4:10 PM
here's the officiall list according to the NY Times:

As we review the report, names may be added to this list.

Chad Allen
Manny Alexander
Rick Ankiel
Mike Bell
David Bell
Gary Bennett Jr.
Marvin Bernard
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Ken Caminiti
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jason Giambi
Jeremi Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews Jr.
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
David Naulty
Denny Neagle
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Mike Stanton
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Randy Velarde
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Todd Williams
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun

[Edited by - TMS on 12-13-2007 1:10 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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12/13/2007  4:17 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:

Any Red Sox players on the list?

This report is ridiculously biases against NY players. Aside from BALCO and other widely publicized cases, the 2 people who provided Mitchell with most of the "evidence" were closely associated with the Mets and the personal trainer of 2 high profile Yankees.

The fact that Mitchell couldn't get any help from people associated with any other teams makes the findings selective at best and disingenuous at worst.

not to mention the fact that Mitchell is a damn director for the Red Sox & on their freakin' payroll!

Varitek is a bomb & ESPN hasn't even mentioned his name... they're only talking about Rocket & Andy... what a joke.

i don't think varitek was officially named in the report.

No Red Sox players were. Shocking.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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