Posted by jaydh:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by majorleads:

Have you seen the Red Sox prospects play on an every day basis? Uh no.

have you?

I'm just analyzing it from a Yankee perspective and all they are giving up is Hughes.

& i'm analyzing it from a Boston perspective & all they're giving up is Lester AND getting rid of a player they no longer want.

Hughes > Lester


you lose, i'm sorry.

Hughes is only greater than Lester in potential right now. Masterson and Lowrie seem like top quality guys, one being a top end starter, the other being a very good hitting 2B/SS who could possibly be ready for the start of '08. So, in the deal, the Twins would be getting a ML ready SP and SS, an adequate OF, and a future top end rotation guy who isn't very far off. In a deal with the Yanks they get Hughes, an adequate OF, and some midgrade minor leaguer. How is that equal? Yanks won't include any other decent prospect as they have said "Joba Chamberlain, Alan Horne, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Jose Tabata have also been designated by the Yankees as off limits." So really, why would the twins just want Hughes when they can get 3 top prospects, 2 of which are expected to be ready for 08 in the majors.


[Edited by - jaydh on 12-04-2007 3:05 PM]

That was some of the most biased stuff I've read on this board. Masterson and Lowrie aren't anywhere near top prospects and Lester isn't a top end of the rotation guy.

Check out some of the Minneapolis newspaper sports blogs. Twins fans aren't happy with what they would get from the Red Sox and prefer the Yankees offer by far.

But I guess a Mets fan would think that he has the perspective on this deal that nobody else has.

Posted by majorleads:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by majorleads:

Posted by TMS:

at this point i'm hoping that another team gets involved & gets Johan, cuz if the Red Sox get him for that package of Lester & 2nd tier prospects, it's a joke.

If I was a Yankee fan, I would keep the 3 kids and not make the trade. Not because I think the 3 kids are destined to be great because you never know with young pitchers, I just feel it's so much more fun watching players come up through my own farm system as opposed to going out and trading them all away for someone else's players. Personally I hate that and that is why I would never trade Reyes for Johan despite pitching being the name of the game.

We get to watch all 3 kids lose to Boston in the playoffs for the next ten years. That sounds like fun!

It's because you are someone who doesn't appreciate the game of baseball.

I appreciate baseball AND appreciate winning (and hate losing). I DON'T want this year to be repeated for the next decade. I get enough punishment from the Knicks!

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-04-2007 3:20 PM]

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by majorleads:

Have you seen the Red Sox prospects play on an every day basis? Uh no.

have you?

I'm just analyzing it from a Yankee perspective and all they are giving up is Hughes.

& i'm analyzing it from a Boston perspective & all they're giving up is Lester AND getting rid of a player they no longer want.

Hughes > Lester


you lose, i'm sorry.

Hughes is only greater than Lester in potential right now. Masterson and Lowrie seem like top quality guys, one being a top end starter, the other being a very good hitting 2B/SS who could possibly be ready for the start of '08. So, in the deal, the Twins would be getting a ML ready SP and SS, an adequate OF, and a future top end rotation guy who isn't very far off. In a deal with the Yanks they get Hughes, an adequate OF, and some midgrade minor leaguer. How is that equal? Yanks won't include any other decent prospect as they have said "Joba Chamberlain, Alan Horne, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Jose Tabata have also been designated by the Yankees as off limits." So really, why would the twins just want Hughes when they can get 3 top prospects, 2 of which are expected to be ready for 08 in the majors.


[Edited by - jaydh on 12-04-2007 3:05 PM]

That was some of the most biased stuff I've read on this board. Masterson and Lowrie aren't anywhere near top prospects and Lester isn't a top end of the rotation guy.

I don't know where you come up with this except outta your phatass. Check out scouting reports, check out their numbers. Btw, Masterson is the top end starter, Lester is just a ML ready starter who has done as well as Hughes in the majors.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by majorleads:

Have you seen the Red Sox prospects play on an every day basis? Uh no.

have you?

I'm just analyzing it from a Yankee perspective and all they are giving up is Hughes.

& i'm analyzing it from a Boston perspective & all they're giving up is Lester AND getting rid of a player they no longer want.

Hughes > Lester


you lose, i'm sorry.

Hughes is only greater than Lester in potential right now. Masterson and Lowrie seem like top quality guys, one being a top end starter, the other being a very good hitting 2B/SS who could possibly be ready for the start of '08. So, in the deal, the Twins would be getting a ML ready SP and SS, an adequate OF, and a future top end rotation guy who isn't very far off. In a deal with the Yanks they get Hughes, an adequate OF, and some midgrade minor leaguer. How is that equal? Yanks won't include any other decent prospect as they have said "Joba Chamberlain, Alan Horne, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Jose Tabata have also been designated by the Yankees as off limits." So really, why would the twins just want Hughes when they can get 3 top prospects, 2 of which are expected to be ready for 08 in the majors.


[Edited by - jaydh on 12-04-2007 3:05 PM]

That was some of the most biased stuff I've read on this board. Masterson and Lowrie aren't anywhere near top prospects and Lester isn't a top end of the rotation guy.

Check out some of the Minneapolis newspaper sports blogs. Twins fans aren't happy with what they would get from the Red Sox and prefer the Yankees offer by far.

But I guess a Mets fan would think that he has the perspective on this deal that nobody else has.

Ah yes, the Twins need to start asking their fans who they'd rather trade for. Good lord you F'ing nut.

Posted by majorleads:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by majorleads:

Have you seen the Red Sox prospects play on an every day basis? Uh no.

have you?

I'm just analyzing it from a Yankee perspective and all they are giving up is Hughes.

& i'm analyzing it from a Boston perspective & all they're giving up is Lester AND getting rid of a player they no longer want.

Hughes > Lester


you lose, i'm sorry.

Hughes is only greater than Lester in potential right now. Masterson and Lowrie seem like top quality guys, one being a top end starter, the other being a very good hitting 2B/SS who could possibly be ready for the start of '08. So, in the deal, the Twins would be getting a ML ready SP and SS, an adequate OF, and a future top end rotation guy who isn't very far off. In a deal with the Yanks they get Hughes, an adequate OF, and some midgrade minor leaguer. How is that equal? Yanks won't include any other decent prospect as they have said "Joba Chamberlain, Alan Horne, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Jose Tabata have also been designated by the Yankees as off limits." So really, why would the twins just want Hughes when they can get 3 top prospects, 2 of which are expected to be ready for 08 in the majors.


[Edited by - jaydh on 12-04-2007 3:05 PM]

That was some of the most biased stuff I've read on this board. Masterson and Lowrie aren't anywhere near top prospects and Lester isn't a top end of the rotation guy.

Check out some of the Minneapolis newspaper sports blogs. Twins fans aren't happy with what they would get from the Red Sox and prefer the Yankees offer by far.

But I guess a Mets fan would think that he has the perspective on this deal that nobody else has.

Ah yes, the Twins need to start asking their fans who they'd rather trade for. Good lord you F'ing nut.

When it's this obvious, yes.

Yanks might be officially out:

Yanks out of Santana sweepstakes

Tuesday, December 4, 2007

By BOB KLAPISCH and PETE CALDERA
STAFF WRITERS

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – This afternoon, the Yankees pulled out of talks for Minnesota Twins’ ace left-hander Johan Santana.

According to a high-level baseball official familiar with the discussions, the Yankees informed the Twins that they would not continue the talks for Santana – despite the Boston Red Sox’ looming presence.

The Red Sox are said to have two offers on the table, one involving center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, and the other involving pitcher Clay Buchholz. The Twins are said to prefer a package that would net them two pitchers, though they still value Ellsbury highly.

Discussions between the Twins and Yanks hit a snag late Monday night, when Minnesota insisted on both Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy in a deal for Santana. Yankees officials steadfastly refused to include both young right-handers.

That’s when Twins officials went back to the Red Sox, and spoke into the wee hours of Tuesday morning, attempting to hash out the framework to a deal for the two-time Cy Young award winner. The Red Sox could potentially have a starting rotation that includes Santana, World Series hero Josh Beckett, Curt Schilling and Daisuke Matsuzaka.

Posted by jaydh:
Hughes is only greater than Lester in potential right now.

Hughes '07 ML totals: 4.46 ERA / 1.28 WHIP / .235 BA against / 7.18 K/9 in 72.2 IP
Lester '07 ML totals: 4.57 ERA / 1.46 WHIP / .257 BA against / 7.14 K/9 in 63 IP

not only does Hughes have a higher ceiling, he's also a better pitcher right now and he's 2 years younger than Lester

Hughes > Lester now & in the future

Masterson and Lowrie seem like top quality guys, one being a top end starter, the other being a very good hitting 2B/SS who could possibly be ready for the start of '08.

So, in the deal, the Twins would be getting a ML ready SP and SS, an adequate OF, and a future top end rotation guy who isn't very far off. In a deal with the Yanks they get Hughes, an adequate OF, and some midgrade minor leaguer. How is that equal? Yanks won't include any other decent prospect as they have said "Joba Chamberlain, Alan Horne, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Jose Tabata have also been designated by the Yankees as off limits." So really, why would the twins just want Hughes when they can get 3 top prospects, 2 of which are expected to be ready for 08 in the majors.

in what world is Justin Masterson considered to be a "top end starter"? in the Bizarro world maybe... in the real world, he's a 2nd tier pitching prospect that has posted an astounding 4.34 ERA in AA level ball last season in 58 IP... the Yankees have kids they could offer up in the deal like J. Brent Cox who absolutely dominated NCAA ball before he had TJ surgery, Umberto Sanchez who was very highly touted coming from DET in the Sheffield trade, Dellin Betances a 19 yo fireballer who so far has posted a 2.43 minor league ERA, Jeff Marquez who's a few months older than Masterson & has posted a lower minor league career ERA up to this point, Christian Garcia who's the same age as Masterson & just posted a 3.46 ERA at A ball, & George Kontos who's also the same age as Masterson & posted a 4.02 ERA at A ball last year... if u think none of these guys stack up to a guy like Masterson you're kidding yourself.

i already covered Jed Lowrie & how he stacks up to Melky... the Twins just traded for a young SS from TB named Brendan Harris who they will start at SS next season & they have a guy named Matt Tolbert who batted .293 in AAA last year that will probably start at 2B for them as well... they're looking to fill the CF & 3B positions... Lowrie doesn't fit their needs... Melky does... Coco Crisp is a veteran player signed to a multimillion dollar contract that the Red Sox want to unload! not exactly what the Twins are known to target in trades.

Posted by majorleads:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by majorleads:

Have you seen the Red Sox prospects play on an every day basis? Uh no.

have you?

I'm just analyzing it from a Yankee perspective and all they are giving up is Hughes.

& i'm analyzing it from a Boston perspective & all they're giving up is Lester AND getting rid of a player they no longer want.

Hughes > Lester


you lose, i'm sorry.

No, you lose, as in you and your 300 million dollar payroll will be finishing in second place. Have fun.

your "views" are absolutely worthless... u have never backed up a thing you've said with any real stats or facts... your constant fall back on your feeble payroll argument pretty much sums up how worthless your opinions really are on this & every other topic i've seen you post on when it comes to the Yankees/Mets debates... the 2 seconds we've all wasted reading that last comeback of yours we will never get back... please stop wasting our time with any more of your drivel.

Posted by VDesai:

Yanks might be officially out:

Yanks out of Santana sweepstakes

Tuesday, December 4, 2007

By BOB KLAPISCH and PETE CALDERA
STAFF WRITERS

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – This afternoon, the Yankees pulled out of talks for Minnesota Twins’ ace left-hander Johan Santana.

According to a high-level baseball official familiar with the discussions, the Yankees informed the Twins that they would not continue the talks for Santana – despite the Boston Red Sox’ looming presence.

The Red Sox are said to have two offers on the table, one involving center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, and the other involving pitcher Clay Buchholz. The Twins are said to prefer a package that would net them two pitchers, though they still value Ellsbury highly.

Discussions between the Twins and Yanks hit a snag late Monday night, when Minnesota insisted on both Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy in a deal for Santana. Yankees officials steadfastly refused to include both young right-handers.

That’s when Twins officials went back to the Red Sox, and spoke into the wee hours of Tuesday morning, attempting to hash out the framework to a deal for the two-time Cy Young award winner. The Red Sox could potentially have a starting rotation that includes Santana, World Series hero Josh Beckett, Curt Schilling and Daisuke Matsuzaka.

never say never until the deal is actually done w/BOS & he's having his press conference... remember what happened when the Red Sox had supposedly landed themselves ARod in a trade a few years back... anything can happen when it comes to the Yankees & Red Sox.

majorleads got pwned in this post HYD.

go yanks, can't wait to see how things unfold

I think the money may have been a bigger issue than let on, especially if that Daily News report is right (so far they are the only to be reporting that).

I think Santana wanted an opt out in addition to 25 mil or whatever over 6 yrs.

A friend of mine made this point: the Yanks are at 200 mil or thereabouts on payroll right now and if they had traded Melky, would've needed to sign a CF, some bullpen guys etc in addition to the 25 mil Johan commanded. That would've made them push 250. That's a lot of money committed, even if you're the Yanks. You still want to remain flexible if you can.

That being said- I have a hard time believing the Yanks rejected that offer, but Marquez is pretty highly regarded by the org.