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Making Zack Randolf your scapegoat is idiotic!
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BlueSeats
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12/3/2007  6:06 PM
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by colorfl1:

Like all real rebuilding situations, this team is rebuilt when its young drafted core develop to represent the character of this club.

The difference between this rebuilding situation and others is that others generally revolve around a plan.

I am not a fan of Zeke. His performance as a GM and President has been legendary bad.

I am only discussing the merits of using the "trade bad expiring contracts" strategy cyclically to eventually fill roles with all-star caliber acquisitions.


Wait a minute. No one has pursued the expiring contracts PLUS DRAFT PICKS strategy further than Isiah, to the result of what you yourself call "legendary bad" performance, yet you are a proponent of the same approach going forward? What has it gotten us?

This managerial style is analogous to Ivy League college recruiters trying to find the best and brightest in reform schools.


Isiah has made several bad moves as GM that have not benifited and at times has set back the development of this team...
These include the Frances trade, Mo Taylor, Big snacks acquisition and the Jared j. acquisitions... all of these hindered the progress of this organization and Zeke has been a miserable GM at effectively executing this strategy.

This leads me to assume you think the use of draft picks and expirings for the acquisitions of Marbury, Crawford, Curry, and Zach were his good moves that justify the approach?
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Panos
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12/3/2007  6:12 PM
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by colorfl1:

Like all real rebuilding situations, this team is rebuilt when its young drafted core develop to represent the character of this club.

And who do you see as the stars of that core?
Core players do not need to be stars... they need to be good, and constitute the character of how a club plays...
Balkman, Lee, Collins, Chandler and Morris will all develop into hard-nosed hustle players who will not quit on a team...

You need a star to contend in this league.
franco12
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12/3/2007  6:45 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by colorfl1:

Like all real rebuilding situations, this team is rebuilt when its young drafted core develop to represent the character of this club.

And who do you see as the stars of that core?
Core players do not need to be stars... they need to be good, and constitute the character of how a club plays...
Balkman, Lee, Collins, Chandler and Morris will all develop into hard-nosed hustle players who will not quit on a team...

You need a star to contend in this league.

and the vast majority of stars are aquired through the draft.

Don't bring up Shaq- he was over the hill, wanted out and wouldn't have won squat without Wade (drafted) & a mob Ref!
colorfl1
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12/3/2007  6:55 PM
Posted by:
This leads me to assume you think the use of draft picks and expirings for the acquisitions of Marbury, Crawford, Curry, and Zach were his good moves that justify the approach?
[/quote][/b]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Crawford and Jerome Williams for Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington, Frank Williams and Cezary Trybanski deal was a good deal.

The Curry deal was debatable only once it turned out that we surrendered such early picks... due to the horendous Larry Brown era...
Curry is still a rare commodity in this league and centers like him bloom very late in their careers... by the time Curry is 28, teams will be acquiring players to specifically contain Curry (as they did for Shaq).

And I am on record as saying the Randolph trade was a great trade... you got a young all-star caliber 18-12 guy for a problem (Frances) and a timid and soft PF.

Guys on this board are piling on Randolph only because they are frustrated with several previous bonehead deals this organization has made.

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-03-2007 6:59 PM]
colorfl1
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12/3/2007  7:03 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by colorfl1:

Like all real rebuilding situations, this team is rebuilt when its young drafted core develop to represent the character of this club.

And who do you see as the stars of that core?
Core players do not need to be stars... they need to be good, and constitute the character of how a club plays...
Balkman, Lee, Collins, Chandler and Morris will all develop into hard-nosed hustle players who will not quit on a team...

You need a star to contend in this league.

and the vast majority of stars are aquired through the draft.

Don't bring up Shaq- he was over the hill, wanted out and wouldn't have won squat without Wade (drafted) & a mob Ref!

That is an excellent point... Shaq was an older player... Barkley was an old player (when he went to the Suns)... Garnett and Allen are older players... they rented these guys for 3 years and then they begin their quick decline.


[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-03-2007 7:04 PM]
franco12
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12/3/2007  7:07 PM
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by:
This leads me to assume you think the use of draft picks and expirings for the acquisitions of Marbury, Crawford, Curry, and Zach were his good moves that justify the approach?
[/b]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Crawford and Jerome Williams for Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington, Frank Williams and Cezary Trybanski deal was a good deal.

The Curry deal was debatable only once it turned out that we surrendered such early picks... due to the horendous Larry Brown era...
Curry is still a rare commodity in this league and centers like him bloom very late in their careers... by the time Curry is 28, teams will be acquiring players to specifically contain Curry (as they did for Shaq).

And I am on record as saying the Randolph trade was a great trade... you got a young all-star caliber 18-12 guy for a problem (Frances) and a timid and soft PF.

Guys on this board are piling on Randolph only because they are frustrated with several previous bonehead deals this organization has made.

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-03-2007 6:59 PM]
[/quote]

Curry has not shown any signs of turning into any kind of great player- either by the time he is 28 or 29, or 30.

And yes, teams will be getting guys just to defend him- Like Brian Skinner's of the world!

Curry is Oliver Miller, but with a larger contract, slightly better shape and a team that is desperate for him not to become the Next Oliver Miller.

And the problem with the randolph trade is Curry- the two CANNOT co-exist. CANNOT.

Or maybe they could, if we had a skilled back court composed of Steve Nash and Kobe.

But we don't.

We need to seriously develop a 12 step program for the kool aid drinkers.
Bonn1997
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12/3/2007  7:37 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by:
This leads me to assume you think the use of draft picks and expirings for the acquisitions of Marbury, Crawford, Curry, and Zach were his good moves that justify the approach?
[/b]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Crawford and Jerome Williams for Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington, Frank Williams and Cezary Trybanski deal was a good deal.

The Curry deal was debatable only once it turned out that we surrendered such early picks... due to the horendous Larry Brown era...
Curry is still a rare commodity in this league and centers like him bloom very late in their careers... by the time Curry is 28, teams will be acquiring players to specifically contain Curry (as they did for Shaq).

And I am on record as saying the Randolph trade was a great trade... you got a young all-star caliber 18-12 guy for a problem (Frances) and a timid and soft PF.

Guys on this board are piling on Randolph only because they are frustrated with several previous bonehead deals this organization has made.

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-03-2007 6:59 PM]

Curry has not shown any signs of turning into any kind of great player- either by the time he is 28 or 29, or 30.

And yes, teams will be getting guys just to defend him- Like Brian Skinner's of the world!

Curry is Oliver Miller, but with a larger contract, slightly better shape and a team that is desperate for him not to become the Next Oliver Miller.

And the problem with the randolph trade is Curry- the two CANNOT co-exist. CANNOT.

Or maybe they could, if we had a skilled back court composed of Steve Nash and Kobe.

But we don't.

We need to seriously develop a 12 step program for the kool aid drinkers.
[/quote]
If anything, Curry's slightly regressed from the player he was in his contract year on the 47 win Bulls' team. He's out of shape and he doesn't take conditioning seriously. Odds are he'll be worse, not better, when he's in his late 20s or early 30s (if he's even playing in his early 30s).
TMS
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12/3/2007  7:39 PM
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by:
This leads me to assume you think the use of draft picks and expirings for the acquisitions of Marbury, Crawford, Curry, and Zach were his good moves that justify the approach?
[/b]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Crawford and Jerome Williams for Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington, Frank Williams and Cezary Trybanski deal was a good deal.

The Curry deal was debatable only once it turned out that we surrendered such early picks... due to the horendous Larry Brown era...
Curry is still a rare commodity in this league and centers like him bloom very late in their careers... by the time Curry is 28, teams will be acquiring players to specifically contain Curry (as they did for Shaq).

And I am on record as saying the Randolph trade was a great trade... you got a young all-star caliber 18-12 guy for a problem (Frances) and a timid and soft PF.

Guys on this board are piling on Randolph only because they are frustrated with several previous bonehead deals this organization has made.

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-03-2007 6:59 PM]
[/quote]

i agree w/u on the Crawford & Curry deals, but back when we made those deals we were searching for young players to fill the low post scoring & perimeter scoring roles on this team... Allan Houston couldn't even play half the time because of his nagging injuries & Mike Sweetney had not shown he could fill the low post scoring role w/any consistency... we also lacked any energy guys like JYD coming off the bench... those trades at least addressed needs we needed to fill... why people have such a problem w/Zach is not because he's a crappy player, but that he didn't address any needs on this team & we got stuck w/yet another immovable contract without improving the team at all... it's really not the same situation to judge the trade under as those other 2 deals Isiah made IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-03-2007 4:39 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
colorfl1
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12/3/2007  7:58 PM
Posted by TMS:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Crawford and Jerome Williams for Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington, Frank Williams and Cezary Trybanski deal was a good deal.

The Curry deal was debatable only once it turned out that we surrendered such early picks... due to the horendous Larry Brown era...
Curry is still a rare commodity in this league and centers like him bloom very late in their careers... by the time Curry is 28, teams will be acquiring players to specifically contain Curry (as they did for Shaq).

And I am on record as saying the Randolph trade was a great trade... you got a young all-star caliber 18-12 guy for a problem (Frances) and a timid and soft PF.

Guys on this board are piling on Randolph only because they are frustrated with several previous bonehead deals this organization has made.

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-03-2007 6:59 PM]
[/quote] [/quote]

i agree w/u on the Crawford & Curry deals, but back when we made those deals we were searching for young players to fill the low post scoring & perimeter scoring roles on this team... Allan Houston couldn't even play half the time because of his nagging injuries & Mike Sweetney had not shown he could fill the low post scoring role w/any consistency... we also lacked any energy guys like JYD coming off the bench... those trades at least addressed needs we needed to fill... why people have such a problem w/Zach is not because he's a crappy player, but that he didn't address any needs on this team & we got stuck w/yet another immovable contract without improving the team at all... it's really not the same situation to judge the trade under as those other 2 deals Isiah made IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-03-2007 4:39 PM]
[/quote]

Because we have Zach, we have legitimate chips that are expendable... Curry is now a tradable asset (we still have Lee & Morris to play at C) or we can trade lee and Marbury's expiring deal next year to land an all-star caliber young small forward or PG.
Zach Randolph is still a player that can get you 18:12 for the next 7 years... it is beneficial to acquire him for the scrap we gave up.
TMS
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12/3/2007  8:08 PM
until i see Isiah use Curry & Lee to get a player to complement Zach & make a real impact on this team, i'm going to continue to hate on that trade... if the Steve Francis deal taught me anything, it's that he rarely if ever has a follow up move planned in advance... he just makes moves whereever he can find a supposed "bargain" as if he's shopping at some auto parts swap meet, hoping to find a hidden treasure that's gonna somehow miraculously transform the rusty, broken down car he's got sitting in his garage into a collector's piece... too bad every piece he buys to put on that car don't fit or are the same part he already had installed on it, & to make matters worse, he's taking out extended warranties on the car everytime he does add a part that ensures it's gonna take that much longer to pay the damn thing off.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-03-2007 5:10 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Siar617
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12/3/2007  9:30 PM
the team sucks
no need for a scapegoat
full of very talented losers
no one on this team wants to win
not curry he'ds rather watch rebounds hit the floor
not qrich he want to see
how many brick houses he can build

i say we get ron and just take chances what can it hurt at this point
soon we'll go on a winning streak but
why wait morris can play the view minutes lee has been given this yr
and he'd add sgot blocking
having a 5th player on the court would help at sf not that we need more sf but
playing 4 on 5 is not good

lee and qrich for artest
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BlueSeats
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12/3/2007  10:18 PM
Posted by colorfl1:
This leads me to assume you think the use of draft picks and expirings for the acquisitions of Marbury, Crawford, Curry, and Zach were his good moves that justify the approach?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Crawford and Jerome Williams for Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington, Frank Williams and Cezary Trybanski deal was a good deal.

The Curry deal was debatable only once it turned out that we surrendered such early picks... due to the horendous Larry Brown era...
Curry is still a rare commodity in this league and centers like him bloom very late in their careers... by the time Curry is 28, teams will be acquiring players to specifically contain Curry (as they did for Shaq).

And I am on record as saying the Randolph trade was a great trade... you got a young all-star caliber 18-12 guy for a problem (Frances) and a timid and soft PF.

Guys on this board are piling on Randolph only because they are frustrated with several previous bonehead deals this organization has made.

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-03-2007 6:59 PM]


You and I simply have very different taste when it comes to basketball.
colorfl1
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12/3/2007  11:40 PM
[b]
not qrich he want to see
how many brick houses he can build


lee and qrich for artest

I don't know about Artest, but lets take is easy on Q-Rich... the guy was playing even though his shooting arm should have been in a sling & and he still busted it on D and pulled down some very impressive rebound totals...
Q-Rich has a lot of heart and I wish we had him back in the Ewing days...
Siar617
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12/4/2007  12:01 AM
please he gets those boards because curry will not
you never notice he jumps in front of curry and take rebounds
if curry would grab the rebounds he lets fall on the floor or
let other teamates take from him
most of the knicks would avera
jesus617 walks
colorfl1
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12/4/2007  12:25 AM
Posted by Siar617:

please he gets those boards because curry will not
you never notice he jumps in front of curry and take rebounds
if curry would grab the rebounds he lets fall on the floor or
let other teamates take from him
most of the knicks would avera

Quentin Richardson had nine rebounds in loss at Boston and 11 in the win against the Bucks and 9 against the Suns...
A nagging left elbow injury continues to plague Quentin Richardson and has clearly hurt his shooting over the first month.
"The coaches told me regardless of how my elbow is feeling, they need me taking shots," he said. "I bring a certain level of respect when I get the ball out there, so if I'm not shooting, they're not really focusing on it."

If every player had the heart of Q on this team, this team would be easy to root for.
Siar617
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12/4/2007  12:29 AM
what
he needs to be on ir period
his numbers are enough to see that
he talks real good but when you suck
who cares what you think
play chandler i bet the team is better off
qrich is wasting min
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colorfl1
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12/4/2007  12:49 AM
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by Siar617:

please he gets those boards because curry will not
you never notice he jumps in front of curry and take rebounds
if curry would grab the rebounds he lets fall on the floor or
let other teamates take from him
most of the knicks would avera
Quentin Richardson had nine rebounds in loss at Boston and 11 in the win against the Bucks and 9 against the Suns...
A nagging left elbow injury continues to plague Quentin Richardson and has clearly hurt his shooting over the first month.
"The coaches told me regardless of how my elbow is feeling, they need me taking shots," he said. "I bring a certain level of respect when I get the ball out there, so if I'm not shooting, they're not really focusing on it."
------------------
Did you read his quote... his arm is injured and he can't shoot right now... it is not like he is old and you need to make room for a younger player... he is only 27!!!
He brings it every night and puts his ego aside for the team.
He is bringing it each night with a clipped wing... show some respect.('');
--->If every player had the heart of Q on this team, this team would be easy to root for.



[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-04-2007 12:51 AM]
Siar617
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12/4/2007  1:12 AM
look at his numbers
if he cared for the team he'd sit himself
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colorfl1
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12/4/2007  1:53 AM
Posted by Siar617:

look at his numbers
if he cared for the team he'd sit himself
Clearly the coaches want him in the game because of his intangibles, defense, hustle and the fact that he will open up the floor by drawing a man from the outside...

Lee, and JJ II. cannot spread out opposing defenses because they have never had an outside game.
Siar617
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12/4/2007  2:05 AM
Clearly the coaches want him in the game because of his intangibles, defense, hustle and the fact that he will open up the floor by drawing a man from the outside...

Lee, and JJ II. cannot spread out opposing defenses because they have never had an outside game.


nobody is gaurding him people are letting him shoot
and he's too shook to shoot
on top of that when he does everyone knows its a brick including him
he's no different than lee or jj
matter of fact at least they can score he cannot


jesus617 walks
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Making Zack Randolf your scapegoat is idiotic!
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