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TMS
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12/6/2007  11:10 AM
Posted by MS:

There is no way in hell the lakers do that deal it doesn't make them better, jarvis is going to be a very good player, and lee isn't really any upgrade over ronny.

Bynum is already more valuable and a better player than curry so whats the insentive for them to deal.

oh please... Turiaf's a bum!... D Lee would become an instant fan favorite here in LA... him, Walton, Vujacic & Farmar have high bball IQ's & would mesh well together... Crittendon is too young to ever make an appreciable contribution over the next couple years, & Kobe wants to bring in players that can help them win now... Curry would give him the low post scoring partner he hasn't had for the past few years... i can understand the Lakers hedging on giving up Bynum, but Kobe knows his team isn't going anywhere w/o a low post scorer to complement his perimeter game... if it took throwing in a protected pick to get the deal done, i'd be fine with it.

C - Curry / Kwame / Mihm
PF - D Lee / Turiaf
SF - Odom / Walton / Ariza
SG - Kobe / Vujacic / Karl
PG - Fisher / Farmar

[Edited by - TMS on 12-06-2007 08:12 AM]
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Bippity10
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12/6/2007  11:21 AM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by Bippity10:

We lost 2 lottery picks in the trade for Curry. You either make him the focal point of the offense and see if he can lead the team or you move him for people that can help you balance the roster. If this is impossible, you move him to create flexibility to obtain people that can balance the roster. I have no doubt that Curry and Zach with the right supporting cast can make us a solid team. But that team has a ceiling as long as they don't provide interior defense.

We did that last year and we were headed for about 38 wins until those injuries mounted. Curry as the focal point doesn't yield results. We can't look at what we lost to acquired him we must just find a way to move him for the best package we can get. You don't keep him and continue the mediocre play if you can't find someone as stupid as Isiah to give US back a #2 and the right to swap to #9 in consecutive drafts. You do what is best for the team and that's growing more evident that moving Curry and buying out Marbury might be the only remaining shot to win anything with this mess Isiah constructed.

That was my point Cosmic. You don't bench him and then lower his value for the sake of hoping the rest of the guys can help you squeeze out 41 wins. You commit. You commit to a plan. If Eddie is a part of this team you must use him for the reasons you traded for him. His offense. He's the most dominant offensive player on this team. You use that and possibly go down with the ship, or you trade him. You don't turn him into a bench player. It's a complete waste of assets(the two lottery picks we gave up). Committ or move in a different direction.

Isiah's biggest problem is he is yet to commit to anything.
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lovespree
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12/6/2007  11:24 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

I have no doubt that Curry and Zach with the right supporting cast can make us a solid team. But that team has a ceiling as long as they don't provide interior defense.

I think Curry and Zack together on the floor cancel each other out. I do agree that we need interior defense which neither of them provide. So to add another "Big" to the roster to provide defense would be overkill to me. I say keep one of them (doesn't matter which) and find some one who can be a defensive presence in the post.
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MS
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12/6/2007  11:28 AM
Ok in case you missed it curry doesn't bring anything to the table they don't need a guy that needs to be the focal point of the offense. And no one could realistically think Curry was going to be anything special.

I don't see the value that Lee is really giving the Lakers along with curry to be honest. Its a maringal upgrade at best with little upside and you don't trade a talented guard with good size right away.
Bippity10
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12/6/2007  11:33 AM
Posted by lovespree:
Posted by Bippity10:

I have no doubt that Curry and Zach with the right supporting cast can make us a solid team. But that team has a ceiling as long as they don't provide interior defense.

I think Curry and Zack together on the floor cancel each other out. I do agree that we need interior defense which neither of them provide. So to add another "Big" to the roster to provide defense would be overkill to me. I say keep one of them (doesn't matter which) and find some one who can be a defensive presence in the post.

I agree with you. Remember the phrase "balance the roster" was started by, and repeated constantly by Bip. It's only recently that the rest of the board started vocalizing this reality. Balancing the roster means that in order to be a championship contender you cannot be horrendous on interior D. You have to be able to put some type of combination of players(doesn't matter if you 2 guard is the guy that blocks 4 shots a game) that can provide some intimidation on the interior. That's why I've always said, you find someone to build around(a leader) and then you fill in the blanks with all the things that he, and all subsequent acqusitions are incapable of doing. This is why at my advanced age, and diminshing talent I can still pick a team of role players for any league I join and run the table. It's so simple. Balance is key, raw talent is over-rated.
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Cosmic
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12/6/2007  11:53 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cosmic:

TMS - Curry turned 25. He's not 23.

ur right... i got so damn used to saying "He's 23 for God's sakes!" over the past couple years it became a habit.



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Cosmic
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12/6/2007  11:55 AM
Posted by Bippity10:



That was my point Cosmic. You don't bench him and then lower his value for the sake of hoping the rest of the guys can help you squeeze out 41 wins. You commit. You commit to a plan. If Eddie is a part of this team you must use him for the reasons you traded for him. His offense. He's the most dominant offensive player on this team. You use that and possibly go down with the ship, or you trade him. You don't turn him into a bench player. It's a complete waste of assets(the two lottery picks we gave up). Committ or move in a different direction.

Isiah's biggest problem is he is yet to commit to anything.

Agreed. Realize what you have is not working very well and formulate a new plan and go with it. Not so sure I trust Isiah with this task but we don't have a choice. We can't just go forward with aching sores and hope they heal themselves....as I don't think there's evidence they will.
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Bippity10
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12/6/2007  12:05 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by Bippity10:



That was my point Cosmic. You don't bench him and then lower his value for the sake of hoping the rest of the guys can help you squeeze out 41 wins. You commit. You commit to a plan. If Eddie is a part of this team you must use him for the reasons you traded for him. His offense. He's the most dominant offensive player on this team. You use that and possibly go down with the ship, or you trade him. You don't turn him into a bench player. It's a complete waste of assets(the two lottery picks we gave up). Committ or move in a different direction.

Isiah's biggest problem is he is yet to commit to anything.

Agreed. Realize what you have is not working very well and formulate a new plan and go with it. Not so sure I trust Isiah with this task but we don't have a choice. We can't just go forward with aching sores and hope they heal themselves....as I don't think there's evidence they will.

I think Isiah still has that belief(like most coaches) that he can turn any player around. It's a nice personal quality but doesn't necessarily lead to winning. Eventually he is going to have to give in and get people that are already doing the things he wants. Eventually.

I personally like Curry. He still has potential. But with this roster he and Zach don't make sense. The question was brought up in pre-season and has been in evidence several times this year. When he doesn't get the ball on offense, he does nothing to help us. If we aren't going to make him the focal point you may as well trade him for a PG that can run the O, or a big man that is a ferocious rebounder, shotblocker and interior defender. If you keep Curry, the same goes for Zach.
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franco12
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12/6/2007  12:11 PM
Posted by King1:

Holfresh I will agree on you about Curry he should be the focal point on offense. He is a more efficent scorer than Zach. As long as Steph is on this team we will never win. He quit on his team, and he has never been a winner. We have too many guys on this team that needs shots all the time. If we dont chsnge that it will be a inconsistent year.

I disagree about Curring being a more efficient scorer- if, you take into account the totality of his play- namely that he seems to try harder on defense, he actually rebounds and he can pass the ball and shoot from outside.

I disagreed with the Zach trade - but now that he is here, I prefer him to Curry and would look to move EC for anything halfway decent in the backcourt or a defensive specialist type front court player.
McK1
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12/6/2007  12:38 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by McK1:

Crawful - Fred Jones starting backcourt...by all means experiment away! it'll only lead to an even quicker date with the executioner for Isiah

Maybe not.

kamiar can we get a larger sample than a game against NJ minus Kidd and only 8 players dressed b4 the patting on the back?
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Queeniepop
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12/6/2007  12:53 PM
And what about no Marbury or Curry on our part plus they have Vince and RJ, who is having a fantastic season. I am sorry, but last year and in years past, this is the type of game we would lose. Remember last year, when Wade and Shaq were out and we got our asses beat by Miami in Miami by J-Will and Kapono and pals?

Also McK1...we finished off the Bucks without Steph and Curry the other night. Down by 16 pts and Fred, Jamal, Q, Lee and Zach were on the floor when we won it.

I think we need a larger sample...Bucks, Nets and likely two Philly games. I think Isiah should be smart enough to go with what works.
martin
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12/6/2007  12:55 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by holfresh:

We need to run pick and rolls with Marbs and Zach...Curry needs more touches in the post...When Curry and Zach post, there needs to be cutters to the basket...The offense needs to revert to Curry as the focal point...

And don't be silly...Marbs and Curry starts...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-06-2007 01:07 AM]

Cutters require the motion offense that we were supposed to have last season, and also a PG who knows how to run an offense. Unfortunately, we don't have players who know how to cut to the right spots besides Fred Jones and Balkman and David Lee and we don't have a PG who can run that type of offense. Nor do we have the low post players who can consistently pass out of the double teams nor look for those cutters. Plus, that type of motion offense tends to require a running offense, and if our defense is as bad as it is, we will not have many opportunities to run in the first place.

I'm with TMS. Trade Curry while his value might still be up, for someone we actually need, whether it's a lesser talent or not. Forget the past draft picks. That's in the past. We've been throwing away draft picks anyway. Trade him for that shotblocker or that leading PG who can D' up. There's got to be someone available SOMEWHERE for Curry. And I think Marbury is keeping us from winning at this point. The team plays much better on both ends when he's not on the court and they play together, whether they win or lose. If you can't get anything worth him, just buy him out. He only has a year and a half left.

I totally disagree...Much as we hate Steph...He can run the team offensively...At this point it may just be too late to count on this guy to do the job for us...For years I have been hearing he is a selfish player on the court, I just haven't seen it...Also, the reason the Knicks isn't winning isn't because Marbury is on the court...Thats just a misnomer that is too widely accepted here..

A shot blocker is great to have but he must also have more tools to help you win games...Dalembert isn't exactly making Philly the team to beat either...Philly has all the the personnel that most here has been asking for..A big man who block shots, A small forward who is an excellent defender...A point guard who think pass first and can defend...A long range shooter...How are they doing by the way...Curry still shoots at a high percentage but doesn't get enough looks in this offense...He has been a little more active defensively but needs to be a lot more...The answer to winning basketball is not as easy as most here cliam it is...I really don't think it's wise to give up on Zach and Curry 17 games into the season...


If evidence of running an offense is wins, marbury is lacking in that area. How can you say that Marbury can run an offense. Maybe for himself, but that's it.
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McK1
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12/6/2007  12:56 PM
Posted by Queeniepop:

And what about no Marbury or Curry on our part plus they have Vince and RJ, who is having a fantastic season. I am sorry, but last year and in years past, this is the type of game we would lose. Remember last year, when Wade and Shaq were out and we got our asses beat by Miami in Miami by J-Will and Kapono and pals?

Also McK1...we finished off the Bucks without Steph and Curry the other night. Down by 16 pts and Fred, Jamal, Q, Lee and Zach were on the floor when we won it.

I think we need a larger sample...Bucks, Nets and likely two Philly games. I think Isiah should be smart enough to go with what works.

Bucks aren't good. they have no head out there either.

and how about allowing Marbury to play next to a good on ball defender and a smart big like Lee vs playing next to a subway turnstile and the post that holds it up?

Mebury + Crawful + Curry was deemed a failure by most for very legit basketball reasons

as far as lacking Steph and Curry, the notion here they will even give a half ass effort if benched for Lee and Jones is definitely in question.

[Edited by - McK1 on 06-12-2007 1:01 PM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 06-12-2007 1:04 PM]
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lovespree
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12/6/2007  12:59 PM

I agree with you. Remember the phrase "balance the roster" was started by, and repeated constantly by Bip.

Of course it was:-) But yeah, I see what your saying. I totally agree. A balanced roster is essential for winning in any sport. Simple concept but completely missed by the folks running our beloved team.
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Panos
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12/6/2007  1:02 PM
Posted by Queeniepop:

And what about no Marbury or Curry on our part plus they have Vince and RJ, who is having a fantastic season. I am sorry, but last year and in years past, this is the type of game we would lose. Remember last year, when Wade and Shaq were out and we got our asses beat by Miami in Miami by J-Will and Kapono and pals?

It was not only no JKidd, but Vince is playing on a sprained ankle.
Cosmic
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12/6/2007  1:31 PM
Oh good lord, fellas...good lord. Curry badly sprained his ankle while WALKING. Yep, WALKING!!!

The Knicks just continue to create bizarre headlines. The latest involves Eddy Curry, who missed last night's game against the Nets with a badly sprained ankle. The injury isn't so odd, but how it happened is: He rolled the ankle during the morning walk-through.

Yes, walk-through. There are some things not even the media can make up. "It was a freak accident," said Curry, who couldn't help but laugh as a few teammates cracked up around him while he told his story to reporters before last night's game. "I was jogging, turned around and I just rolled it, fell to the floor and just grabbed my ankle. It was excruciating."

Curry said he doesn't think he will be out for long and that he could be back in time for tomorrow's game in Philadelphia against the 76ers. "But I've got to see the doctor again before that," he said. "We'll figure it out."


You know, where players stand still, coach says "you go here, then when that happens you go there." and players walk to the new position - while they learn the play.

Not running, not scrimmaging, not during drills: WALKING!!!!



Please trade him before he fractures his spine when he goes over 350 pounds a week from today.
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kam77
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12/6/2007  1:37 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Oh good lord, fellas...good lord. Curry badly sprained his ankle while WALKING. Yep, WALKING!!!

The Knicks just continue to create bizarre headlines. The latest involves Eddy Curry, who missed last night's game against the Nets with a badly sprained ankle. The injury isn't so odd, but how it happened is: He rolled the ankle during the morning walk-through.

Yes, walk-through. There are some things not even the media can make up. "It was a freak accident," said Curry, who couldn't help but laugh as a few teammates cracked up around him while he told his story to reporters before last night's game. "I was jogging, turned around and I just rolled it, fell to the floor and just grabbed my ankle. It was excruciating."

Curry said he doesn't think he will be out for long and that he could be back in time for tomorrow's game in Philadelphia against the 76ers. "But I've got to see the doctor again before that," he said. "We'll figure it out."


You know, where players stand still, coach says "you go here, then when that happens you go there." and players walk to the new position - while they learn the play.

Not running, not scrimmaging, not during drills: WALKING!!!!


Please trade him before he fractures his spine when he goes over 350 pounds a week from today.

Cosmic, i think you need to relax. Read what you're quoting before you start posting.

Save your faces

[Edited by - kam77 on 12-06-2007 1:37 PM]
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Cosmic
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12/6/2007  1:43 PM
Posted by kam77:


Cosmic, i think you need to relax. Read what you're quoting before you start posting.

Save your faces

[Edited by - kam77 on 12-06-2007 1:37 PM]

I read it. I move faster sitting on my couch than Curry does "jogging" during a WALKTHROUGH.

Know what's more disheartening? The fact they all think it's funny. Yeah, real funny that your "franchise center" is 40 pounds over weight and hurt himself during a WALK THROUGH. HILARIOUS!!!! They probably find 6-11 funny too. Buncha losers.....

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King1
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12/6/2007  2:07 PM
We could 3 straight and play great ball and Curry will be back in the lineup when he is ready. Quentin will always play until his shooting percentage gets below 25% and Steph is going to play regardless of how he acts or alienates his teammates.
FireIsiah
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12/6/2007  2:26 PM
Posted by King1:

We could 3 straight and play great ball and Curry will be back in the lineup when he is ready. Quentin will always play until his shooting percentage gets below 25% and Steph is going to play regardless of how he acts or alienates his teammates.

Why does Q still get minutes, cause he is fat and cant shoot? If i hear someone tell me he plays hard and good D i will vomit. Grant Hill on sunday is what i will say.
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