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Twins want Reyes or Cano for Santana..
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Finestrg
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12/1/2007  5:55 AM
I'd offer the Twins Hughes and Melky Cabrera first to try and get Santana. If that's not enough, I go Hughes, Melky and Kennedy. If that's not enough, oh well. Good luck trying to sign him Minnesota.

I quickly turn to the A's and try and get something done for Dan Haren, who I like a lot and who I just read could be available. We aren't exactly talkin' sloppy seconds here with Haren. Haren's got stuff that reminds you of David Cone in his prime. He's that good. Filthy splitter. And he's a horse - Over 215 IP 3 years in a row with his best year so far coming last season: 222.2 IP - 34 starts, 214 hits, 192 Ks, 3.07 ERA (in the AL with the DH). Only 1 start against Boston last year: 7.2 IP, 4 hits, 2 runs, 9 Ks. Impressive. Plus, he's a year and a half younger than Santana. I'm kinda suprised that the A's would make Haren available. It makes you think - if Haren's available, could Rich Harden be too? He's younger than both Santana and Haren. I know Harden's always hurt but talk about stuff. 95-100 mph fastball with a splitter just as good as Haren's. This kid's stuff is a good as any young pitcher's in the game today - Chamberlain, Verlander, Felix Hernandez, you name it. If we're gonna be talkin' Phil Hughes with Oakland, maybe Rich Harden's the guy we should be looking at.

This is what I'd like to see the Yanks do:

START LOOKING FROM WITHIN TO PLUG HOLES-

(1) If we deal Melky, I wouldn't mind seeing the Yankees give Brett Gardner a shot in CF. Homegrown guy who should be a good leadoff hitter for years to come. You don't need a star at every position (I think I was the only one who really wanted Bubba Crosby to be our CF instead of throwing that big deal at Damon a few years back). This kid can be an impact table-setter for a long time. .280-.300, 50+ stolen base offensive potential here with great range in CF and a plus arm. If we dealt Melky, Damon's on the decline and Matsui's not the greatest outfielder. I'd also be a little leary about breaking the bank to bring Andruw Jones here after having such a bad year in his contract year. You don't need to throw 70-75 millon at Aaron Rowand (who did have a great year btw) or a 50-60 mil. at Mike Cameron when we have this kid Gardner sitting there waiting for his chance. Give him a shot. When's the last time we had a legit leadoff hitter with this kind of ability?

(2) Do not deal Joba Chamberlain, Dellin Betances, Jose Tabata (Abreu's eventual replacement in RF and in the 3 hole) or Jesus Montero (Posada's replacement in a few years behind the plate) under any circumstances. My 4 untouchables. These 4 guys are the key to the Yanks remaining a dynasty and still one of MLB's finest teams 3-4 years from now. All homegrown talent.

(3) If Pettitte really decides to hang it up and we don't land a lefty like Santana or Bedard, I give Garrett Patterson a chance in spring training. Didn't have the best stats the last couple of seasons but has huge potential. 95 mph fastball and has experience as a starter and most recently as a reliever. If he doesn't wind up being a starter for us when's the last time we had a lefty in the pen with his kind of stuff? Exactly. I can't remember either.

(4) With Joba now looking like a starter, I look from within for his replacement in the bullpen - Ferdin Tejeda. Came back from TJ surgery successfully, hitting 95 on the gun with the potential for more velocity once his rehab comes full circle which could be by the beginning of next season. This is a guy who hit 98 mph with ease before the surgery. World-class arm. Could be the setup man right here, and when Mo's done, possibly our future closer.

ON THE FREE AGENT MARKET -

(5) I might look at Jeremy Affeldt as a lefty for the pen. I always liked him and always thought KC had a real good 1-2 punch in their pen with him and MacDougal. If his price is reasonable, you can do a lot worse than Affeldt as your lefty in the pen. Either Affeldt or Garrett Patterson from within are bigtime upgrades over Ron Villone.

(6) I really don't see that big righthanded power bat out there for us to stick in there somewhere behind A-Rod. Maybe you do have to look at an Aaron Rowand or Andruw Jones after all for some righthanded pop, although I rather see them spend the money on the bullpen and maybe give Shelly Duncan a shot at some regular playing time - either at first or at as a DH.

(7) I'd also consider bringing Mientkiewicz back for his defense if the price is right.
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Bonn1997
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12/1/2007  7:04 AM
I'd offer the Twins Hughes and Melky Cabrera first to try and get Santana. If that's not enough, I go Hughes, Melky and Kennedy. If that's not enough, oh well. Good luck trying to sign him Minnesota.
Wow, I think that's way too much to offer for Santana. I'm not sure I'd offer Hughes alone--forget the idea of giving up two of our three top young pitchers. The most I'd give up would be Kennedy, Cano, and Melky. I'd hate to give up Cano but I think his offensive production can be replaced by upgrading at any of a number of other positions.
Finestrg
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12/1/2007  10:35 AM
Well I guess I'm not as high on Hughes and Kennedy as some of you guys. In Hughes I see a guy who's very much hitable. I definitely do not see the next Roger Clemens as some have pointed out. Again, and I watch ever game, he's 90, 91, 92 maybe 93 to start off the game then 3 innings later the fastball's down in the 88-90 mph range. Now what's that all about? Is it a lack of stamina? That type of velocity drop-off (and not even 95+ to begin with) after only about 50 pitches or so is puzzling considering we're talking about a young, supposedly strong kid who goes 6'5" 225. Scout.com had said, "...consistently sits in the 92-95 range and often times reaches the 97 mph plateau with the four-seam fastball." Huh??? What pitcher were they watching? I'm sorry, but I just don't see that. Again, you wanna say the couple of injuries he had set him back, OK maybe that has something to do with it, although I have real trouble believing the Yankees would just march the crown jewel of the franchise right back out there if they didn't think he was 100%. Plus, he was throwing only 90 in the spring (with lousy control I might add). That's spring training, trying to make the team - Pre-injuries! What did Toronto do against Hughes in his debut at the stadium? They rocked him around pretty good, that's what. In fact, he didn't pitch that well at home at all.

Listen, I'm not trying to sell this kid short. He's a nice prospect with 4 good major league pitches. He could help us. Just not as a #1 front-of-the-line guy. He's a #3 type and there's nothing wrong with that. He comes a tad overrated. It happens.

And what does Kennedy really project to be? Honestly, you all saw him. Again, nice little prospect, but not overpowering at all. Not an ace by any means. I see Hughes as a #3 on a real good club and this kid as a #4 or #5. Scout.com said he compared favorably to Mike Mussina in his prime. What?!?!? Are they kidding me? LMFAO at that one I was! I don't see that at all. Mussina, who I actually hope doesn't throw another pitch for the Yanks because HE'S DONE, was nasty in his prime. He was even nasty when the Yanks first got him. Stuff wise, Kennedy does not even compare. Shame on scout.com. That's irresponsible.

So if it took Hughes, Kennedy and Melky Cabrera (a guy I like but a guy that can be easily replaced either in-house with Brett Gardner or on the FA market Rowand, Jones, etc...), to go out and get Johan Santana, the best pitch in the game, you wouldn't do it? You gotta be kidding me. You have to do it bro. If we don't and he goes to Boston, you can resign the A-Rods and Posadas all you want, it wont make any difference.
Finestrg
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12/1/2007  10:45 AM
Trust me there are a few pitchers on the farm who will make you forget all about Phil Hughes before this is all said and done. Namely Dellin Betances, Humberto Sanchez and Christian Garcia. And then there's more pitching talent down on the farm after that. Throw those name together in a few years with Chamberlain and Wang. How's that look?

Phil who???????
Bonn1997
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12/1/2007  11:03 AM
So what does it tell you that despite all those shortcomings of Hughes, despite the multiple leg injuries, and despite the fact that he was a rookie, his ERA was only 1 run higher than Santana's? And surely that gap will close since most pitchers' ERAs improve a lot from their rookie seasons.
Bonn1997
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12/1/2007  11:03 AM
And Santa's very good, but based on what criteria is he the best pitcher in the game? (I hear that phrase used to describe him a lot and am curious.)
TMS
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12/1/2007  9:19 PM
Posted by Finestrg:

I'd offer the Twins Hughes and Melky Cabrera first to try and get Santana. If that's not enough, I go Hughes, Melky and Kennedy. If that's not enough, oh well. Good luck trying to sign him Minnesota.

I quickly turn to the A's and try and get something done for Dan Haren, who I like a lot and who I just read could be available. We aren't exactly talkin' sloppy seconds here with Haren. Haren's got stuff that reminds you of David Cone in his prime. He's that good. Filthy splitter. And he's a horse - Over 215 IP 3 years in a row with his best year so far coming last season: 222.2 IP - 34 starts, 214 hits, 192 Ks, 3.07 ERA (in the AL with the DH). Only 1 start against Boston last year: 7.2 IP, 4 hits, 2 runs, 9 Ks. Impressive. Plus, he's a year and a half younger than Santana. I'm kinda suprised that the A's would make Haren available. It makes you think - if Haren's available, could Rich Harden be too? He's younger than both Santana and Haren. I know Harden's always hurt but talk about stuff. 95-100 mph fastball with a splitter just as good as Haren's. This kid's stuff is a good as any young pitcher's in the game today - Chamberlain, Verlander, Felix Hernandez, you name it. If we're gonna be talkin' Phil Hughes with Oakland, maybe Rich Harden's the guy we should be looking at.

This is what I'd like to see the Yanks do:

START LOOKING FROM WITHIN TO PLUG HOLES-

(1) If we deal Melky, I wouldn't mind seeing the Yankees give Brett Gardner a shot in CF. Homegrown guy who should be a good leadoff hitter for years to come. You don't need a star at every position (I think I was the only one who really wanted Bubba Crosby to be our CF instead of throwing that big deal at Damon a few years back). This kid can be an impact table-setter for a long time. .280-.300, 50+ stolen base offensive potential here with great range in CF and a plus arm. If we dealt Melky, Damon's on the decline and Matsui's not the greatest outfielder. I'd also be a little leary about breaking the bank to bring Andruw Jones here after having such a bad year in his contract year. You don't need to throw 70-75 millon at Aaron Rowand (who did have a great year btw) or a 50-60 mil. at Mike Cameron when we have this kid Gardner sitting there waiting for his chance. Give him a shot. When's the last time we had a legit leadoff hitter with this kind of ability?

(2) Do not deal Joba Chamberlain, Dellin Betances, Jose Tabata (Abreu's eventual replacement in RF and in the 3 hole) or Jesus Montero (Posada's replacement in a few years behind the plate) under any circumstances. My 4 untouchables. These 4 guys are the key to the Yanks remaining a dynasty and still one of MLB's finest teams 3-4 years from now. All homegrown talent.

(3) If Pettitte really decides to hang it up and we don't land a lefty like Santana or Bedard, I give Garrett Patterson a chance in spring training. Didn't have the best stats the last couple of seasons but has huge potential. 95 mph fastball and has experience as a starter and most recently as a reliever. If he doesn't wind up being a starter for us when's the last time we had a lefty in the pen with his kind of stuff? Exactly. I can't remember either.

(4) With Joba now looking like a starter, I look from within for his replacement in the bullpen - Ferdin Tejeda. Came back from TJ surgery successfully, hitting 95 on the gun with the potential for more velocity once his rehab comes full circle which could be by the beginning of next season. This is a guy who hit 98 mph with ease before the surgery. World-class arm. Could be the setup man right here, and when Mo's done, possibly our future closer.

ON THE FREE AGENT MARKET -

(5) I might look at Jeremy Affeldt as a lefty for the pen. I always liked him and always thought KC had a real good 1-2 punch in their pen with him and MacDougal. If his price is reasonable, you can do a lot worse than Affeldt as your lefty in the pen. Either Affeldt or Garrett Patterson from within are bigtime upgrades over Ron Villone.

(6) I really don't see that big righthanded power bat out there for us to stick in there somewhere behind A-Rod. Maybe you do have to look at an Aaron Rowand or Andruw Jones after all for some righthanded pop, although I rather see them spend the money on the bullpen and maybe give Shelly Duncan a shot at some regular playing time - either at first or at as a DH.

(7) I'd also consider bringing Mientkiewicz back for his defense if the price is right.

good post... just a few comments:

about Rich Harden, he's got a great arm but it's of no use to us if he's always injured... he's Oakland's version of Kerry Wood... no way would i give up Ian Kennedy for him much less Phil Hughes... the most i would give up is Alan Horne along w/guys like Tyler Clippard or Chase Wright, but i doubt that gets it done... i'd target Dan Haren if i'm dealing w/the A's.

about Brett Gardner, he's got nice range & is speedy, but very little to no pop in his bat & isn't a better leadoff option than Damon either... IMO he's a 4th OFer at best for this Yankee lineup... he seems very similar to Scott Posednik... Austin Jackson is more highly rated, & he's the guy i think would take over in CF eventually... he just batted .345 at Tampa last season with a .398 OBP & .566 SLG, & finished w/13 HR's & 59 RBI combined in Tampa & Charist at only 20 years of age, so you figure those #'s should be going up as he gets older... he's gotta cut down on his strikeouts tho... i figure he should be ready in another year to get a shot at the majors... if the Yankees do end up trading Melky,

about giving Patterson a shot in the pen, it doesn't only take a 95 mph fastball to succeed... he needs to have at least 1 other go to pitch that can get guys out... guys like Alan Embree & Sean Henn have been proof that you can't just blow hitters away w/a 95 mph heater in this league.

about replacing Joba in the setup role, i think they'll re-sign Vizcaino & use him along w/Ohlendorff & Farns to be the main setup men... i have no idea about the Tejeda kid you're talking about so i can't comment on him, but i'd love to see Dellin Betances eventually get a shot at being a late inning setup man once he's ready to hit the majors, probably in another 2 years is my guess... he's a tall young kid that has a 98 mph heater & will only get stronger in the next few years barring any injuries.

as for free agents, i like Affeldt too cuz he can get guys out from both sides of the plate, but i think the Yankees are high on David Riske from what i've been reading... as for a righty bat, if Shelley Duncan comes back healthy, there's your righty bat right there... i don't see the Yankees spending the money to get Andruw Jones cuz he's looking for a $100 million dollar deal... ain't happening... Rowand's not really a power bat either, tho i'd love to get him if the Yankees decide to trade Melky... he's the scrappy type of player i love to watch... forget about Dougie Fresh... there's no room for him on the roster if Duncan comes back... Andy Phillips can be an adequate backup at 1B, plus he can play other positions as well... plus i think the Yanks are about to sign Mark Loretta, so i think that means Doug's out of the equation.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Twins want Reyes or Cano for Santana..

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