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How a "true" fan deals with adversity
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islesfan
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11/1/2007  1:08 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by oohah:
Damn You Rembee, you just don't understand! You can root against your team and be a fan as long as you know for a fact that the next regime will undoubtedly be better!

You hit the nail on the head, ooh.

As soon as Isiah is gone we will rebuild, so it’s ok to root against the team, right? But then, what if the next regime doesn’t. Or the one after that. When do you start rooting for the team?

When do you come to the realization that you aren’t a fan?
[Edited by - rembee76 on 11-01-2007 1:04 PM]

So people should accept being a laughingstock and stick with the person who made them into one?

That's hitting the nail on the head? More like hitting the last nail on the coffin.

That's pathetic.

[Edited by - islesfan on 11-01-2007 1:08 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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islesfan
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11/1/2007  1:11 PM
Posted by azamatbagatov:
Posted by oohah:
But what of those here on record as saying they are rooting for the Knicks to lose but still bristle when someone suggests they aren’t a fan. If I were going to make proclamations of what is and what is not “allowed”, that would be something I would ban.

Damn You Rembee, you just don't understand! You can root against your team and be a fan as long as you know for a fact that the next regime will undoubtedly be better!

Doesn't that make perfect sense?

For example, some Chicago Cubs "fans" have been rooting against their own team for 99 years. They just know in their clairvoyant hearts that the next management team is the one that turns it all around...

Similarly, nobody cold be worse than Al Bianchi! I mean Scott Layden. I mean Isiah... ...

Got it?!?

oohah

You just happen to leave out Ernie Grunfeld between bianchi layden, and isiah. I am sure it was just an innocent oversite, right?

If you are happy with the way this franchise has been doing things the last 3 1/2 years. That's your opinion. I have very high standards. I don't want my team coach, gm and vp to be found guilty of sexual harrasment and i like it when the guys i root for actually play hard all of the time. I am a dictator - i know this

Wait, you mean they had a long run of success and competed for championships? So things can get better and did?

But I thought you were supposed to just suffer with incompetents because thats the only surefire way of things getting better?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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11/1/2007  1:15 PM
and seriously...is rooting really what it means to be a "fan"?

these guys don't pay our bills. they don't feed our kids. they don't shave my back hair every other week.

we are watching them for entertainment. cheering and booing is part of the entertainment. aren't there characters on tv you love to hate? you are hoping "i hope that guy gets his this week" and stuff like that. this is the same thing. it's a freak'n show yet some people take fans reactions to that show WAY too seriously.
RemBee76
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11/1/2007  1:17 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
so what's "lost" is not the definition of fan, what's "lost" is how one becomes a fan and how one stays a fan...there are way more variables thrown into the mix.

Well stated, DJ, but I'm not begrudging anyone using all the information at their fingertips to criticize the team. You know me. I’m all for that.

I'm saying the people who think they are acting like "victims" if they root for their team to win have lost sight of what it means to be a fan.

I'm talking about the people whose logic is so twisted they can make an obvious comment about how opposing views should be allowed on a forum, then two posts later suggest that anyone who doesn't like it should just go to RealGM.

You get what I'm saying here?


Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
RemBee76
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11/1/2007  1:18 PM
DJ, you've stated before that you have never booed the team in the Garden.

Why is that?
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
oohah
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11/1/2007  1:19 PM
You just happen to leave out Ernie Grunfeld between bianchi layden, and isiah. I am sure it was just an innocent oversite, right?

Innocent oversight? I don't compute.

I also left out Dave DeBusschere. Grunfeld or any other particular GM has nothing to do with it. The point is that nobody knows that the next man will be better or worse. You don't know, I don't know. The next man could be Grunfeld or he could be Mitch Kupchak.

If you have been actively rooting against the Cubs for the past 99 years waiting for the right GM, are you still a Cubs fan?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
RemBee76
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11/1/2007  1:21 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
it's a freak'n show yet some people take fans reactions to that show WAY too seriously.

DJ, a buddy of ours once said its all just chin music. it is.

Posting on a message board while rooting for the team to miss the playoffs doesn't meet my definition of a Knick fan.

Thats all I'm saying.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
djsunyc
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11/1/2007  1:25 PM
Posted by RemBee76:

DJ, you've stated before that you have never booed the team in the Garden.

Why is that?

booing is not my style. but the dude 2 rows over boos them like crazy. got no problem with that just like the dude 2 rows to the right paints his face orange and blue. got no problem with that either.

that's the point tho - somebody constantly talking bad about the team and hoping for the team to lose so they can see a change is no different that someone hoping eddy curry becomes shaq. it's all good and it's not really something to argue about.
islesfan
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11/1/2007  1:26 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by djsunyc:
so what's "lost" is not the definition of fan, what's "lost" is how one becomes a fan and how one stays a fan...there are way more variables thrown into the mix.

Well stated, DJ, but I'm not begrudging anyone using all the information at their fingertips to criticize the team. You know me. I’m all for that.

I'm saying the people who think they are acting like "victims" if they root for their team to win have lost sight of what it means to be a fan.

I'm talking about the people whose logic is so twisted they can make an obvious comment about how opposing views should be allowed on a forum, then two posts later suggest that anyone who doesn't like it should just go to RealGM.

You get what I'm saying here?

What does one have to do with the other? You're the one all wrapped up in telling people what to think and how to act, while you criticize this message board because it doesn't meet your expectations of what a board should be. That's why I suggest you post on another board where disgruntled fans are not typically allowed.

nixluva has a viewpoint completely opposite of my own, but I've NEVER suggested that he start posting elsewhere because he doesn't agree with mine.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Just comparing apples to oranges over and over again.

That comment about how opposing views should be represented in a forum, isn't that obvious when you've spent half this thread denigrating anyone with a viewpoint that differs from your own. The other half, you've spent defending that stance and now backtracking from it, the way you usually do.

[Edited by - islesfan on 11-01-2007 1:38 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
azamatbagatov
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11/1/2007  1:43 PM
Posted by oohah:
You just happen to leave out Ernie Grunfeld between bianchi layden, and isiah. I am sure it was just an innocent oversite, right?

Innocent oversight? I don't compute.

I also left out Dave DeBusschere. Grunfeld or any other particular GM has nothing to do with it. The point is that nobody knows that the next man will be better or worse. You don't know, I don't know. The next man could be Grunfeld or he could be Mitch Kupchak.

If you have been actively rooting against the Cubs for the past 99 years waiting for the right GM, are you still a Cubs fan?

oohah

So, basically you are saying we should embrace losing, players not playing hard and civil suits because the next guy MIGHT be worse?

The cubs are a bad example, the knicks didn't win a title from the hubie brown days to when cablevision bought the team and I was content with how the franchise was run and represented then and never rooted against them.

There is a bad culture that is associated with isiah's knicks on and off the court. If you can tell me the Cubs GM/Coach/Team Pres that was found guilty of sexual harassment, the Cubs players who don't play hard and a well-respected Cubs baseball manager is fired and brought out of wrigley by security after having his boss joke about firing him on letterman the night before you actually might have a point....





[Edited by - azamatbagatov on 11-01-2007 1:45 PM]
"I want to leave a legacy." ~ Isiah Thomas
TMS
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11/1/2007  2:08 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by oohah:
Damn You Rembee, you just don't understand! You can root against your team and be a fan as long as you know for a fact that the next regime will undoubtedly be better!

You hit the nail on the head, ooh.

As soon as Isiah is gone we will rebuild, so it’s ok to root against the team, right? But then, what if the next regime doesn’t. Or the one after that. When do you start rooting for the team?

When do you come to the realization that you aren’t a fan?




[Edited by - rembee76 on 11-01-2007 1:04 PM]

when do you come to the realization that Isiah's "rebuilding plan" isn't a plan at all... he's just throwing whatever he can get his hands on at the wall & seeing if it sticks... that's hardly a sound plan of action to build a championship contender with.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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11/1/2007  2:14 PM
Back in high school we used to yell at people for not having enough school spirit like all the real fans. I used to miss those days.
I just hope that people will like me
oohah
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11/1/2007  2:15 PM
So, basically you are saying we should embrace losing, players not playing hard and civil suits because the next guy MIGHT be worse?

If you have to put silly words in my mouth to make a point it only diminishes your own point.

What I am saying, and I think you do understand it, is that fans root for their team. It's all we can really do. Whoever the current incarnation of the team is is not "the Knicks".

Whether you embrace this organization or not doesn't change anything. In the meantime why not root/hope for the team you love to win?
The cubs are a bad example, the knicks didn't win a title from the hubie brown days to when cablevision bought the team and I was content with how the franchise was run and represented then and never rooted against them.

The Cubs are a good example. It asks the question: What is the cutoff for rooting against your team and still actually be a fan? Is it 1 year? 5? 20?

Some just want to root when things are going good. More power to them. I think the Sox fans who stuck it out through 80 years of disappointment have a much richer personal fulfillment than those who decided to root when the team was good. But that is just me.

You've been around for while watching the knicks? I saw you held up Grunfeld as an ideal as compared to these knicks.

Perhaps you don't remember the turbulence of the Grunfeld days, how he was killed for trading Oakley for Camby who was not yet fulfilling his potential, how he was killed for trading Starks for Public enemy number 1 in Sprewell.

During the Grunfeld days the Knicks were mainly mediocre, then they had a Cinderella Run.
There is a bad culture that is associated with isiah's knicks on and off the court. If you can tell me the Cubs GM/Coach/Team Pres that was found guilty of sexual harassment, the Cubs players who don't play hard and a well-respected Cubs baseball manager is fired and brought out of wrigley by security after having his boss joke about firing him on letterman the night before you actually might have a point....

If you want to flame post on your first day on the forum I guess there is no need for us to discuss anything.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Nalod
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11/1/2007  2:27 PM
deal with adversity?



After a loss.......



After seeing a loss and Isiah smiling I need a.....



And a loss to the Celtics would require a tip toe throught the tulips!
Bippity10
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11/1/2007  2:27 PM
I contend that I am a better Knick fan that both Rembee and Oooh Aaah combined.

So there!
I just hope that people will like me
azamatbagatov
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11/1/2007  2:28 PM
So you only want to use part of the comparison to the cubs, the part that suits your argument. Not surprising.

When compairing the knicks to the cubs, you should include the whole package. If that constitutes as flaming, so be it. The things i named did happen under isiah's tenure. You can't hide that as much as you may like too.

It wasn't flaming i mentioned those things to shoot holes in your argument of compairing our situation to that of the Cubs.

The truth hurts.

If you want to discount what grunfeld did as mediocre with a cinderella run? What is your definition of Isiah's tenure?

Oh wait, i bet i know already. "It was Larry's fault"
"I want to leave a legacy." ~ Isiah Thomas
TMS
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11/1/2007  2:30 PM
Posted by oohah:
There is a bad culture that is associated with isiah's knicks on and off the court. If you can tell me the Cubs GM/Coach/Team Pres that was found guilty of sexual harassment, the Cubs players who don't play hard and a well-respected Cubs baseball manager is fired and brought out of wrigley by security after having his boss joke about firing him on letterman the night before you actually might have a point....

If you want to flame post on your first day on the forum I guess there is no need for us to discuss anything.

oohah

he's making a point about your comparison of the Cubs to the Knicks... how is he flaming you?

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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11/1/2007  2:30 PM
Posted by azamatbagatov:

So you only want to use part of the comparison to the cubs, the part that suits your argument. Not surprising.

When compairing the knicks to the cubs, you should include the whole package. If that constitutes as flaming, so be it. The things i named did happen under isiah's tenure. You can't hide that as much as you may like too.

It wasn't flaming i mentioned those things to shoot holes in your argument of compairing our situation to that of the Cubs.

The truth hurts.

If you want to discount what grunfeld did as mediocre with a cinderella run? What is your definition of Isiah's tenure?

Oh wait, i bet i know already. "It was Larry's fault"

I was hoping we could have some intelligent discourse, but I see you want to go the trueblue route.

Good day to you sir.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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11/1/2007  2:36 PM
he's making a point about your comparison of the Cubs to the Knicks... how is he flaming you?

"So, basically you are saying we should embrace losing, players not playing hard and civil suits because the next guy MIGHT be worse?"

(Putting words in my mouth)
"There is a bad culture that is associated with isiah's knicks on and off the court. If you can tell me the Cubs GM/Coach/Team Pres that was found guilty of sexual harassment, the Cubs players who don't play hard and a well-respected Cubs baseball manager is fired and brought out of wrigley by security after having his boss joke about firing him on letterman the night before you actually might have a point...."

(Throwing jabs in lieu of making points)
"Oh wait, i bet i know already. "It was Larry's fault"

(Putting more words in my mouth)

***

All within his first ten posts. Tiresome nonsense.

Enjoy your season rooting against the Knicks Az. I'll be rooting for my team. Isiah Thomas is not my team.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
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11/1/2007  2:45 PM
flaming means he's making personal insults at you rather than addressing the topic at hand... i didn't really see him doing that, but whatever... your choice who you want to converse with & who you don't.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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