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Fred Jones = Steve Francis?
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TrueBlue
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10/16/2007  12:28 PM
Posted by nixluva:

People, it's not about major impact when you're talking about a guy like Jones. He's a tool off the bench and as such when he's used in tandem with other good defenders the cumulative effect is what we're looking for. As part of a more defensive UNIT he's a good piece. Don't try and make it seem like he has no value to this team. It's not about raw numbers with him.

Despite the opinions of his defensive capabilites, in practice he's showing Isiah something and that's what he's gonna base his decision on. In comparison to our other guards he's likely an improvement defensively and that's important. He's doesn't have to be Bowen in order to help this team on D. Let's remember that not every guard is as elusive as KOBE! There are a lot of lesser guards that he may be able to slow down. Especially since he's coming off the bench and likely will be defending 2ND TIER PLAYERS!!! Use your heads people, Geez!



Nix why do we always need these perpetual supplementary parts at the 2/3?

explain each one of these players roles if they make the team Luva

Nate
Crawford
Q
Mardy
Jones
Jeffries
Chandler
Balkman
Houston
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BasketballJones
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10/16/2007  12:31 PM
Posted by Queeniepop:

I would like to see what the hype on Nichols is. The dude has NEVER played in a real NBA game yet. And NO, summer league doesn't count because 90% of the guys that play in summer league don't even make an NBA roster. You would think that Isiah got Michael Jordan in the second round, the way people talk about Nichols.

And since so many believe Isiah is a great talent evaluator, if Nichols is SO DAMN GOOD, then why won't Isiah play him in meaningless preseason games (that according to so many are actual predictors of the regular season) or actually SIGN him to a contract?

Exactly. Why do you need an unproven guy like Nichols when you have a proven talent like Fred Jones on your team?
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TrueBlue
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10/16/2007  12:36 PM
Posted by Queeniepop:

I would like to see what the hype on Nichols is. The dude has NEVER played in a real NBA game yet. And NO, summer league doesn't count because 90% of the guys that play in summer league don't even make an NBA roster. You would think that Isiah got Michael Jordan in the second round, the way people talk about Nichols.

And since so many believe Isiah is a great talent evaluator, if Nichols is SO DAMN GOOD, then why won't Isiah play him in meaningless preseason games (that according to so many are actual predictors of the regular season) or actually SIGN him to a contract?


Ask a Lover they were the ones saying I SAY UGH picked 2 Top 5 shooters in the draft. If Nichols is such a good shooter why does it appear he may not make the team? I believe he should considering what we already have, I SAY UGH shouldn't be hanging his hat on Jones when we supposedly already have capable players. Let Nichols stay and prove his upside players like Jones are a dime a dozen and we have about half a dozen excluding him.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Bippity10
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10/16/2007  12:40 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Queeniepop:

I would like to see what the hype on Nichols is. The dude has NEVER played in a real NBA game yet. And NO, summer league doesn't count because 90% of the guys that play in summer league don't even make an NBA roster. You would think that Isiah got Michael Jordan in the second round, the way people talk about Nichols.

And since so many believe Isiah is a great talent evaluator, if Nichols is SO DAMN GOOD, then why won't Isiah play him in meaningless preseason games (that according to so many are actual predictors of the regular season) or actually SIGN him to a contract?

Exactly. Why do you need an unproven guy like Nichols when you have a proven talent like Fred Jones on your team?

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subzero0
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10/16/2007  12:52 PM
This is what it comes down to with this team. We are a post up half court team. We are to punish other teams down low with our scoring. We get other teams into foul trouble down there and we control the boards. When teams realize this they will double down on Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph. That is when they throw a pass out to our shooters or cutters. Now the better teams will clog the lane so we cannot cut. The option that is left for us is the three point shot. Here are our 3 point shooters:

Jamal Crawford (on a good day, surely you all remember those long 2-15, 3-11, and 2-20 nights)
Stephon Marbury (on a good day, see above)
Quentin Richardson (on a good day, surely you all remember his back spasm black pin stripe suit he wore last year)

Watching the games last year, it pretty much came down to, if Jamal was not hitting his shots then we would not win the game.

This year we might have a three point shooter in Chandler, oh by the way Nichols was a better shooter than him in college. We also got Houston, I think he has the same color suit as Quentin in his closet.

Now bare with me as this may be a LITTLE BIT of a stretch, but is it possible, just possible, that we might need another good shooter... just in case?

What do you think? Am I going to far??

[Edited by - subzero0 on 10-16-2007 1:07 PM]
BlueSeats
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10/16/2007  1:19 PM
Normally I don't pay much mind to who the 14th and 15th guy are on the bench. Isiah's challenge this year should actually be to tighten his rotation, not expand it.

But the question becomes, will some of these guys we are discussing be good enough to break the 8 or 9 man rotation? Should any of Houston, Jones or Nichols be in that mix? I think if the answer is no then you'd want that guy on the bench to be someone who has a chance to become a better player 2 to 3 years down the road.

In my estimation the answer is no with regard to Houston and Jones. The story has already been written about those two, and I don't really see them making the rotation or getting better.

[Edited by - blueseats on 10-16-2007 1:20 PM]
nixluva
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10/16/2007  1:41 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by nixluva:

People, it's not about major impact when you're talking about a guy like Jones. He's a tool off the bench and as such when he's used in tandem with other good defenders the cumulative effect is what we're looking for. As part of a more defensive UNIT he's a good piece. Don't try and make it seem like he has no value to this team. It's not about raw numbers with him.

Despite the opinions of his defensive capabilites, in practice he's showing Isiah something and that's what he's gonna base his decision on. In comparison to our other guards he's likely an improvement defensively and that's important. He's doesn't have to be Bowen in order to help this team on D. Let's remember that not every guard is as elusive as KOBE! There are a lot of lesser guards that he may be able to slow down. Especially since he's coming off the bench and likely will be defending 2ND TIER PLAYERS!!! Use your heads people, Geez!



Nix why do we always need these perpetual supplementary parts at the 2/3?

explain each one of these players roles if they make the team Luva

Nate
Crawford
Q
Mardy
Jones
Jeffries
Chandler
Balkman
Houston
What kind of question is this? It's more than apparent what Nate, Q and Jamals roles are. As for mardy, Jones, Jeffries, Balkman & Chan, they're bench players and as such, their role is to b used by Isiah to give him the tool he needs for any given situation. It depends on the opponent and the game situation. How they're used is going to be up to Isiah and what he's seeing on the floor.

It's clear what most of those guys do is on the defensive side of the ball, so I don't see why this needs any special attention from me. Any offense you get from those bench guys is a plus. You want solid team ball and hustle.

Folks we have too many players to expect that it's gonna be the same short rotation of 8 every night. You will see Isiah use the bench to cover needs (holes if you wish). So tho I expect the top 8-9 to get consistent minutes, after that it's all gonna be a game to game situation.
TrueBlue
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10/16/2007  1:56 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by nixluva:

People, it's not about major impact when you're talking about a guy like Jones. He's a tool off the bench and as such when he's used in tandem with other good defenders the cumulative effect is what we're looking for. As part of a more defensive UNIT he's a good piece. Don't try and make it seem like he has no value to this team. It's not about raw numbers with him.

Despite the opinions of his defensive capabilites, in practice he's showing Isiah something and that's what he's gonna base his decision on. In comparison to our other guards he's likely an improvement defensively and that's important. He's doesn't have to be Bowen in order to help this team on D. Let's remember that not every guard is as elusive as KOBE! There are a lot of lesser guards that he may be able to slow down. Especially since he's coming off the bench and likely will be defending 2ND TIER PLAYERS!!! Use your heads people, Geez!



Nix why do we always need these perpetual supplementary parts at the 2/3?

explain each one of these players roles if they make the team Luva

Nate
Crawford
Q
Mardy
Jones
Jeffries
Chandler
Balkman
Houston
What kind of question is this? It's more than apparent what Nate, Q and Jamals roles are. As for mardy, Jones, Jeffries, Balkman & Chan, they're bench players and as such, their role is to b used by Isiah to give him the tool he needs for any given situation. It depends on the opponent and the game situation. How they're used is going to be up to Isiah and what he's seeing on the floor.

It's clear what most of those guys do is on the defensive side of the ball, so I don't see why this needs any special attention from me. Any offense you get from those bench guys is a plus. You want solid team ball and hustle.

Folks we have too many players to expect that it's gonna be the same short rotation of 8 every night. You will see Isiah use the bench to cover needs (holes if you wish). So tho I expect the top 8-9 to get consistent minutes, after that it's all gonna be a game to game situation.


So we gave Jeffries $30+mil with a kicker to be a situational not a ratational player and WOW you have all of our defensive stoppers and shooter on the bench hoping they get some playing time from game-to-game.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
islesfan
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10/16/2007  2:11 PM
When LB complained that he didn't have enough defensive minded players, Isiah instantly rebuked him, saying that LB had more than enough defensive minded players to win games.

Since Isiah replaced LB as coach, he's signed Jeffries, drafted Balkman and now insists on keeping Jones. All defensive minded players only.

Maybe Isiah was lying when he said LB had enough defensive minded players and sabotaged LB's ability to win games.
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Bippity10
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10/16/2007  2:19 PM
I'm not like guys like Isles and the rest that look at Fred Jones and see a failure. Those guys are living in the past. I'm living on the future. And in the future I see Fred Jones will be a star. I shall call him "the Congressman."
I just hope that people will like me
Panos
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10/16/2007  2:45 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I'm not like guys like Isles and the rest that look at Fred Jones and see a failure. Those guys are living in the past. I'm living on the future. And in the future I see Fred Jones will be a star. I shall call him "the Congressman."

Bip for Senator!
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Ira
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10/16/2007  2:49 PM
Re the Nichols-Davis comparison. IMO, Nichols is better defensively; Davis had the better shot. Not that Nichols doesn't have a good shot, but I don't think it's as good as Hubert Davis's. On the defensive end, Hubert Davis couldn't defend a statue. Nichols looks like he might be pretty good.
TrueBlue
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10/16/2007  2:53 PM
Posted by islesfan:

When LB complained that he didn't have enough defensive minded players, Isiah instantly rebuked him, saying that LB had more than enough defensive minded players to win games.

Since Isiah replaced LB as coach, he's signed Jeffries, drafted Balkman and now insists on keeping Jones. All defensive minded players only.

Maybe Isiah was lying when he said LB had enough defensive minded players and sabotaged LB's ability to win games.


And according to Luva's player assessment he doesn't have not one of them in the Top 8(Marbury, Curry, Zach, Lee, Crawford, Q, Nate, Morris(I'm assuming)) rotation which speaks volumes how he goes about looking at games from a fan perspective=1-WAY. Not to mention James and Malik are a forgotten memory.

LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Ira
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10/16/2007  3:05 PM
Getting back to the original thread topic, has anyone found any similarities between Fred Jones and Steve Francis?
Bippity10
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10/16/2007  3:07 PM
Posted by Ira:

Getting back to the original thread topic, has anyone found any similarities between Fred Jones and Steve Francis?

No

The Congressman is no Steenkin' Steve Francis
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martin
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10/16/2007  3:07 PM
Posted by Ira:

Getting back to the original thread topic, has anyone found any similarities between Fred Jones and Steve Francis?

both are around 6'3".
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Bippity10
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10/16/2007  3:13 PM
They both play basketball
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BasketballJones
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10/16/2007  3:40 PM
They both have the letter 's' occurring once in their last names.
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nixluva
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10/16/2007  3:41 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by islesfan:

When LB complained that he didn't have enough defensive minded players, Isiah instantly rebuked him, saying that LB had more than enough defensive minded players to win games.

Since Isiah replaced LB as coach, he's signed Jeffries, drafted Balkman and now insists on keeping Jones. All defensive minded players only.

Maybe Isiah was lying when he said LB had enough defensive minded players and sabotaged LB's ability to win games.
And according to Luva's player assessment he doesn't have not one of them in the Top 8(Marbury, Curry, Zach, Lee, Crawford, Q, Nate, Morris(I'm assuming)) rotation which speaks volumes how he goes about looking at games from a fan perspective=1-WAY. Not to mention James and Malik are a forgotten memory.
So tell me WHEN did I ever say that I didn't care about defense? Which of my statements could be interpreted to suggest that's how I feel? See you are once again trying to label me and make me seem out of touch to the realities of winning basketball. You think that I don't know how important Defense is, just because I acknowledge the fact that this is an offensive team?

If I was building my own team i'd take as many great 2 way players as I could find. I'm not the GM of the Knicks and I didn't inherit his particular owner and a team of old low trade value players. I think that it's easy to say that you should build a team a certain way, but just look at other teams and you can see that it's not easy to build a Spurs, Pistons or Bulls team. How many teams can defend on that level? MOST don't. You want to get as much high level talent as you can get and it just so happens that in our case many of those players aren't great defenders. At least Isiah has been addressing the issue over the last 3 years, as evidenced by the addition of more defensive minded players. It's not a perfect situation, but that doesn't mean it can't work. That's what he's gonna have to prove this year and I believe he can.
BasketballJones
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10/16/2007  4:29 PM
I'm happy that everyone (lover and hater alike) sees the importance of the Congressman. Enough so that we've two threads going about him today.

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