[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

OT: So who are we fighting exactly in Iraq and afganistan?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 3 of 5 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4  5 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
dodger78
Posts: 20911
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/7/2002
Member: #250
Germany
9/15/2007  9:06 AM
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Should the world and America have sat by when Hitler was trying to exterminate millions of people? Many people in the USA said we had no business going in to Germany. That they never attacked us. I'm proud that we did go in to Germany to do away with Hitler.


[Edited by - COSSUCKS on 09-14-2007 2:22 PM]

Please do not compare these to events cause by definition there is a difference between a World War and a illegitimate war like the one in Iraq! Ill not go into detail, why there was a justification for the US to get involved with one and non in the second case, cause I believe you do understand! At least I hope you do...
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
9/15/2007  9:09 AM
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Iraqi health minister estimates total number of civilian deaths at 150,000

BAGHDAD (AP) - A stunning new death count emerged Thursday, as Iraq's health minister estimated at least 150,000 civilians have been killed in the war, about three times previously accepted estimates.

Moderate Sunni Muslims, meanwhile, threatened to walk away from politics and pick up guns, while the Shiite-dominated government renewed pressure on the United States to unleash the Iraqi army and claimed it could crush violence in six months.
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/061109/w110978.html

Tony Blair called that the most accurate estimate
When Tony Blair was asked about the Lancet report in December 2004, he responded that, “Figures from the Iraqi Ministry of Health, which are a survey from the hospitals there, are in our view the most accurate survey there is.”
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_643.shtml

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-14-2007 6:24 PM]

Is the truth important to you at all or just your hype?

You clearly just lied about Tony Blair. He never said this latest report was the most accurate estimate as you claimed. He said the number in 2004 was the most accurate estimate.

If you believe so strongly in it why arent you going to Iraq to help the Iraqis? Do you think you would be welcomed or would you likely have your head cut off because of your religion?

Most Americans do not want us to be in Iraq but the problem is you always look to over hype the negative and deceive people instead of just looking at the actual facts. That goes for Iraq and the Knicks.

You seem to get something (almost always negative) in your mind and that is that. Your mind is made up. It doesnt matter what the truth is. You will always look to ignore or minimize any positive and over hype any negative. Once again that goes for the Knicks as well.

[Edited by - COSSUCKS on 09-15-2007 08:28 AM]

And since 2004, did he declare that some other organization was now making better estimates? Do you need him to repeat every year for you his belief that the Iraq health minister's estimate is the most accurate one?

Why am I not in Iraq? I'll ask you a question and answer yours. Why are YOU not in Iraq if you believe the mission is so wonderful? I'm not in Iraq because I believe I can do more good by putting my efforts into electing politicians who seek diplomacy first and war last. (I still give donations to humanitarian groups, though.) I'm interested in doing what I can to prevent the next "Iraq War" and the next one and the next one from happening by making sure we don't elect individuals with similar world views to George Bush's.


You ignored Silverfuel's excellent arguments.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-15-2007 09:40 AM]
Silverfuel
Posts: 31751
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
9/15/2007  9:28 AM
Bonn, your premise is flawed. You started talking about
What bothers me is that no one cares about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians who have died because of the events we set into motion. All we ever hear about are the 3000 US soldiers as if their lives are more important than the Iraqis' lives.
First off, a ton of people care about the Iraqi civilians that are dieing. You must be referring to the mainstream media circle because I hear about the Iraqi causalities almost everyday. Second, you cannot except anything from the mainstream media (MSNBC, CNN, FOX) anymore. Since they barely talk about Darfur which is the greatest humanitarian crisis of the decade, you cannot expect them to do any different in this situation. Its stupid to hold the major media outlets to any normal standards.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
Posts: 31751
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
9/15/2007  9:29 AM
And Bonn, it should be obvious why we are worried more about our soldiers.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
9/15/2007  9:38 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:

Bonn, your premise is flawed. You started talking about
What bothers me is that no one cares about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians who have died because of the events we set into motion. All we ever hear about are the 3000 US soldiers as if their lives are more important than the Iraqis' lives.
First off, a ton of people care about the Iraqi civilians that are dieing. You must be referring to the mainstream media circle because I hear about the Iraqi causalities almost everyday. Second, you cannot except anything from the mainstream media (MSNBC, CNN, FOX) anymore. Since they barely talk about Darfur which is the greatest humanitarian crisis of the decade, you cannot expect them to do any different in this situation. Its stupid to hold the major media outlets to any normal standards.

I am talking about the major media outlets but I do think they are a reflection of American society. They'll show whatever will draw the highest ratings and attract the most advertisers. If the majority of Americans wanted to hear news stories on Iraqi civilian deaths (and Darfur), you can rest assured that the major media outlets would have such stories. There is a very small segment of the population, and it sounds like you're in that honorable small segment, that cares about Iraqi civilian deaths and Darfur. I bet 90% of Americans do not even know what Darfur is.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-15-2007 09:44 AM]
raven
Posts: 22454
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #316
Canada
9/15/2007  11:47 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I bet 90% of Americans do not even know what Darfur is.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-15-2007 09:44 AM]

I now live in Canada, after living in France for 27 years.
I bet 90% of people form those 2 countries know what Darfur is either. Stupidity and ignorance don't belong to the US, trust me.

Thing is, most of people don't want to know about Darfur cause otherwise, they could have all the information they want about it.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
9/15/2007  12:18 PM
Posted by raven:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I bet 90% of Americans do not even know what Darfur is.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-15-2007 09:44 AM]

I now live in Canada, after living in France for 27 years.
I bet 90% of people form those 2 countries know what Darfur is either. Stupidity and ignorance don't belong to the US, trust me.

Thing is, most of people don't want to know about Darfur cause otherwise, they could have all the information they want about it.
I agree with that, and that is precisely why the mainstream media outlets don't cover humanitarian crises: They are reflections of the views of the vast majority of the citizens of the countries they serve.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
9/15/2007  12:19 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by raven:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I bet 90% of Americans do not even know what Darfur is.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-15-2007 09:44 AM]

I now live in Canada, after living in France for 27 years.
I bet 90% of people form those 2 countries know what Darfur is either. Stupidity and ignorance don't belong to the US, trust me.

Thing is, most of people don't want to know about Darfur cause otherwise, they could have all the information they want about it.
I agree with that, and that is precisely why the mainstream media outlets don't cover humanitarian crises: They are reflections of the views of the vast majority of the citizens of the countries they serve.

Oh and I lived in Canada for six years too and I agree with what you said.
Silverfuel
Posts: 31751
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
9/15/2007  1:49 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I am talking about the major media outlets but I do think they are a reflection of American society.
I really cannot stand the big media outlets. Even newspapers are fast losing their credibility. Think tanks and blogs are the way to go and they leave so much background information out. But yea, big media is cheating us out of reality. Really, who the **** cares about Britney Spears that you have to show her MTV performance on the evening news. Leave that crap for MTV.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 09-15-2007 1:49 PM]
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Stevo718
Posts: 20456
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #559
9/15/2007  6:29 PM
Okay bottom line who is really responsible for the war? YOU AND ME.

That's right... every single american that leaves their tv on and lights on and drives Hummers and SUV's and blasts AC when it's 80 degrees outside. C'mon let's face it we WASTE and WASTE and WASTE.

Who here is willing to give up their SUV's for smaller cars or even walk or bike to work? Who here is willing to turn on a fan instead of blasting their AC? Who here is willing to spend the extra money on solar powered roofing for their homes? Who here is willing to walk to the 7-11, two blocks down the street instead of taking their car? Who here is willing to make a dramatic change in their lives and change their lifestyle and comfort levels?

Let's face it as bad as war is Bush has no choice, oil will run out one day so even if we have other sources in other countries or even reserves their will come a day when it will run out and we can't just wait till then to do something about it. Don't get me wrong, there are many corporations and people making a killing off this war but we really don't have a choice either.

So how many Americans are willing to give up their lifestyle so that we won't have to do things like go to war with Iraq?
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
9/15/2007  6:32 PM
Posted by Stevo718:

Okay bottom line who is really responsible for the war? YOU AND ME.

That's right... every single american that leaves their tv on and lights on and drives Hummers and SUV's and blasts AC when it's 80 degrees outside. C'mon let's face it we WASTE and WASTE and WASTE.

Who here is willing to give up their SUV's for smaller cars or even walk or bike to work? Who here is willing to turn on a fan instead of blasting their AC? Who here is willing to spend the extra money on solar powered roofing for their homes? Who here is willing to walk to the 7-11, two blocks down the street instead of taking their car? Who here is willing to make a dramatic change in their lives and change their lifestyle and comfort levels?

Let's face it as bad as war is Bush has no choice, oil will run out one day so even if we have other sources in other countries or even reserves their will come a day when it will run out and we can't just wait till then to do something about it. Don't get me wrong, there are many corporations and people making a killing off this war but we really don't have a choice either.

So how many Americans are willing to give up their lifestyle so that we won't have to do things like go to war with Iraq?
Let me ask a question (b/c you might know more about this than I do): If it's about oil, why did more countries not join us in this war effort? Surely many other countries that could have joined us have the same oil interests we have.
EwingsGlass
Posts: 27837
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 4/29/2005
Member: #893
USA
9/16/2007  1:34 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by COSSUCKS:

You also fail to mention is its usually not American soilders killing them but other arabs/muslims killing them.
Agreed. Majority of the casualties (Iraqi and American) are because of the Shiah v. Sunni civil war.

Which Saddam kept in check and which the Bush Administration allowed to ignite again by their lack of forethought.

Are you complimenting Saddam for his subjugation of two different subgroups of the Iraqi populace (not to mention the treatment of the female gender) by stating that he "kept in check" the power struggle? Perhaps the war over there is about the ignorance at home?
You know I gonna spin wit it
COSSUCKS
Posts: 20984
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/15/2007
Member: #1569
9/16/2007  3:20 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why am I not in Iraq? I'll ask you a question and answer yours. Why are YOU not in Iraq if you believe the mission is so wonderful? I'm not in Iraq because I believe I can do more good by putting my efforts into electing politicians who seek diplomacy first and war last. (I still give donations to humanitarian groups, though.) I'm interested in doing what I can to prevent the next "Iraq War" and the next one and the next one from happening by making sure we don't elect individuals with similar world views to George Bush's.

I already said I wished we never went to Iraq and want us out of there (thats me being selfish) but that doesnt mean thats the right thing to do. Did you see the massacres that took place when we left Nam? Or will you also blame that on the USA when it happens in Iraq after a USA pull out?

I already served this country in the Gulf when you were around 10 years old so you could have the right to sit here and insinuate that we kill innocent civilians on purpose. I was USAF Reserves (after my tour) till 1999 as well. Ive known 1000's of service men and women. Never once did I meet one that wanted to kill innocent Iraqis.
You are all talk and no walk. You could go to Iraq and still vote in the USA. You could go to Iraq and still donate to humanitarian causes. Marky do you think you would get your head cut off in Iraq because of your religion? I can tell you that you probably would. How many people do you think are free and safe to practice your religion in Iraq?
dodger78
Posts: 20911
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/7/2002
Member: #250
Germany
9/16/2007  3:34 PM
Just some questions Cossucks, if this war is done for humanitarian reasons, why is it not legitimate? The UN did not give the go right?!
What happened to these WMD, that were the reason to start this war from the beginning???
Another aspect that really got me going is... Do I really care more for my country men dying in thousands or people from another country dying in the ten thousands?!? PLEASE!!! It does not matter where those people are from!!!! People are dying!!! And dont come with this humanitarian bull**** again that you went into Iraq to save those poor souls terrorized by Sadam, cause this has NOT been the reason!!! I could have lived with that reasoning if it had been the reasoning behind the war from the beginning!!! You went in there for the oil and money!!! I can imagine how hard it is to justify the truth for a member of the military, but thats the reason man!!!
And before you ask... no I did not serve my country, Im not even American...
COSSUCKS
Posts: 20984
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/15/2007
Member: #1569
9/16/2007  3:52 PM
Posted by dodger78:

Just some questions Cossucks, if this war is done for humanitarian reasons, why is it not legitimate? The UN did not give the go right?!
What happened to these WMD, that were the reason to start this war from the beginning???
Another aspect that really got me going is... Do I really care more for my country men dying in thousands or people from another country dying in the ten thousands?!? PLEASE!!! It does not matter where those people are from!!!! People are dying!!! And dont come with this humanitarian bull**** again that you went into Iraq to save those poor souls terrorized by Sadam, cause this has NOT been the reason!!! I could have lived with that reasoning if it had been the reasoning behind the war from the beginning!!! You went in there for the oil and money!!! I can imagine how hard it is to justify the truth for a member of the military, but thats the reason man!!!
And before you ask... no I did not serve my country, Im not even American...

I didnt go any where for money nor oil. Dont tell me why I served in the Gulf. We went to liberate Kuwait from a murderous brutalizing dictator. The Kuwati people were great to us and Ive never regretted serving there.

Thats a totally different war than I served in. As far as where the wmds are I have no idea. Does that mean they never existed? Everyone from the UN to the Clintons, to Gore, to Kerry, to Bush said they existed so are you telling me they never existed. Do you have better intelligence than all of those sources? I find it ridiculous to believe they werent there. They used gas on us in the gulf war so I do not doubt for a second that they existed. Where they were moved I dont know. There is intelligence of large caravans moving in to Syria before we went in to Iraq. That would be my guess.
COSSUCKS
Posts: 20984
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/15/2007
Member: #1569
9/16/2007  3:59 PM
By the way Dodger if you are from Germany you should be the last person calling out another country since German Nazis tried to exterminate a whole race/religion of people with over 6-8 million dead for absolutely no reason but simple bigotry.
dodger78
Posts: 20911
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/7/2002
Member: #250
Germany
9/16/2007  4:01 PM
Correction, I didnt talk about Gulf War 1 but the war happening right now!
WMD... come on!!! The UN said so?!?! When?!? Bush said so... what a surprise!!! All those american people said so... hmmm... I see...
Sorry but North Korea seems to be a more threatening country in many aspects still no interveening!? No oil I guess and a lot more resistence...
Come on didnt Rumsfeld even admit they lied to the people about their "intellegence"?!?!?!?!?!
COSSUCKS
Posts: 20984
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/15/2007
Member: #1569
9/16/2007  4:05 PM
Posted by dodger78:

Correction, I didnt talk about Gulf War 1 but the war happening right now!
WMD... come on!!! The UN said so?!?! When?!? Bush said so... what a surprise!!! All those american people said so... hmmm... I see...
Sorry but North Korea seems to be a more threatening country in many aspects still no interveening!? No oil I guess and a lot more resistence...
Come on didnt Rumsfeld even admit they lied to the people about their "intellegence"?!?!?!?!?!

You didnt know that the UN as well as many other countries and all those American presidents/senators of both parties spoke of Iraqs wmds? You did not know of the sanctions that Saddam was ignoring in regards to these weapons? Did you personally have Iraqis try to use Chemical and or Gas weapons on you? How are you going to tell me they never existed? WMDS are not only nuclear bombs you know.

Google wmds in Iraq and tell me what you find.
dodger78
Posts: 20911
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/7/2002
Member: #250
Germany
9/16/2007  4:06 PM
Posted by COSSUCKS:

By the way Dodger if you are from Germany you should be the last person calling out another country since German Nazis tried to exterminate a whole race/religion of people with over 6-8 million dead for absolutely no reason but simple bigotry.

You dont have to explain German history to me! Like I said before, the US intervening in WWII is not to be compared to this war!!! Dont do it cause it would belittle the sacrifice of the many soldaires dying in order to rid the world form an insane and cruel dictator who actually threatened the whole world!!!
Im not calling out another country!!! I am the first one to defend the american people for not even voting for Bush as a majority!!! ;-)
I call out a illigimate war led by a bigot president!!! I would do that with any other president/war too!!!
playa2
Posts: 34922
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 5/15/2003
Member: #407
9/16/2007  4:07 PM
THIS IS WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN IRAQ


[Edited by - playa2 on 16-09-2007 16:30]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Page 3 of 5 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4  5 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
OT: So who are we fighting exactly in Iraq and afganistan?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy