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babyKnicks
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8/23/2007  9:49 PM
zach's better than curry in all honesty.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
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COSSUCKS
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8/23/2007  10:57 PM
Posted by babyKnicks:

zach's better than curry in all honesty.

At some things and not at others.
Curry is better inside
Curry is much better above the rim. Zach very rarely dunks.
Curry is shockingly a better shot blocker
Neither are good defenders
Zach is a better shooter outside
Zach is a better slasher to the hoop
Zach is better at the FT line
martin
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8/24/2007  8:33 AM
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by babyKnicks:

zach's better than curry in all honesty.

At some things and not at others.
Curry is better inside
Curry is much better above the rim. Zach very rarely dunks.
Curry is shockingly a better shot blocker
Neither are good defenders
Zach is a better shooter outside
Zach is a better slasher to the hoop
Zach is better at the FT line

I am not so sure if Curry is better than Zach inside. It wasn't until this year that Curry got double teamed in the post and towards the end of the season it showed how Eddie couldn't handle the double team... which IMHO is part of playing inside (or the post). Randolph gets double teamed regularly and still did his thing.

Zach is a much better passer.
Zach handles double teams better.
Zach is a better rebounder.
Zach has more steals than Curry (but not really that good at it).
Zach is less foul prone.
Zach turns the ball over less.
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misterearl
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8/24/2007  8:57 AM
Martin - do you think the fact that Zach is more fluid with the ball in his hands than any forward the Knicks have had in the past decade will have a positive influence on Eddy Curry's game?
once a knick always a knick
Marv
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8/24/2007  9:06 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Martin - do you think the fact that Zach is more fluid with the ball in his hands than any forward the Knicks have had in the past decade will have a positive influence on Eddy Curry's game?

what does martin know? i'll field that one.

it will if eddy plays off it the right way. that means:

1. position himself for a pass if his man has to slide over to pick up zach.

2. screen his man away from zach so zach can finish.

3. get inside his man for offensive rebounds.

4. clear away when zach has a favorable matchup so zach has a clear path to the rim.

5. look for zach more for interior passes when he gets the ball.
misterearl
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8/24/2007  9:35 AM
Marv - I appreciate the effort. Please read the question, pause a moment to consider the point of reference, take a deep breath and check your answers.

once a knick always a knick
MS
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8/24/2007  9:51 AM
Watching games again the knicks have a lot more flow with curry out of the game, i really think if you played lee all game with curry you would get better results overal for the entire unit than having zach next to him. But time will tell and we will see....
nixluva
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8/24/2007  9:52 AM
Posted by martin:

I am not so sure if Curry is better than Zach inside. It wasn't until this year that Curry got double teamed in the post and towards the end of the season it showed how Eddie couldn't handle the double team... which IMHO is part of playing inside (or the post). Randolph gets double teamed regularly and still did his thing.

Zach is a much better passer.
Zach handles double teams better.
Zach is a better rebounder.
Zach has more steals than Curry (but not really that good at it).
Zach is less foul prone.
Zach turns the ball over less.
Zach is much more mobile guy. He's smaller and quicker and has a better handle. That said Curry is still the better inside player in terms of scoring, which is a huge part of the equation. How can Curry not be considered the better inside player when almost no one in the league is more efficient in close than him? Curry for the 1st time faced double and triple teams it sure didn't seem to slow him down much. Now imagine how he's gonna be once he get's used to all this and knows how to deal with it better? Once he gets a bit better at reading the D and passing.

It is clearly not something he's been working on for much of his career, but I think he's taking it more seriously now. In Chicago the way they played offense didn't really start every play with the ball going into him. So he's really just now getting experience as a player in that position. The extra attention messed with him, but that was a good thing, cuz it's forcing him to learn and improve.

The guy has been working on his game and it's bound to pay off. As much as people rip him for his faults the guy still has a chance to get better and look out if he does, cuz the guy is a sleeping giant.
arkrud
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8/24/2007  10:01 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by martin:

I am not so sure if Curry is better than Zach inside. It wasn't until this year that Curry got double teamed in the post and towards the end of the season it showed how Eddie couldn't handle the double team... which IMHO is part of playing inside (or the post). Randolph gets double teamed regularly and still did his thing.

Zach is a much better passer.
Zach handles double teams better.
Zach is a better rebounder.
Zach has more steals than Curry (but not really that good at it).
Zach is less foul prone.
Zach turns the ball over less.
Zach is much more mobile guy. He's smaller and quicker and has a better handle. That said Curry is still the better inside player in terms of scoring, which is a huge part of the equation. How can Curry not be considered the better inside player when almost no one in the league is more efficient in close than him? Curry for the 1st time faced double and triple teams it sure didn't seem to slow him down much. Now imagine how he's gonna be once he get's used to all this and knows how to deal with it better? Once he gets a bit better at reading the D and passing.

It is clearly not something he's been working on for much of his career, but I think he's taking it more seriously now. In Chicago the way they played offense didn't really start every play with the ball going into him. So he's really just now getting experience as a player in that position. The extra attention messed with him, but that was a good thing, cuz it's forcing him to learn and improve.

The guy has been working on his game and it's bound to pay off. As much as people rip him for his faults the guy still has a chance to get better and look out if he does, cuz the guy is a sleeping giant.

It is difficult to evaluate Eddy like a player because he was playing on garbage teams his entire NBA carrier and it was no other inside option available.
This year we will be able to clearly see how good he is when we have other options inside.
Eddy will need to compete for playing time and earn his role. His skills and mental abilities will be finally put on test.
Unless Isiah will come up with some ways to mute it again. I hope Isiah will fail to do it this year.




[Edited by - arkrud on 08-24-2007 10:03 AM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 08-24-2007 10:04 AM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
martin
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8/24/2007  10:05 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Martin - do you think the fact that Zach is more fluid with the ball in his hands than any forward the Knicks have had in the past decade will have a positive influence on Eddy Curry's game?

Zach is fluid with the ball in the post? Does that mean he is a good passer or just a good scorer? I thought his rep was as a black hole in the post, kinda like Curry.

Curry has never played off the ball well, so I don't know how Zach's post game will help Curry.

I agree with Marv's assessment.
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misterearl
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8/24/2007  10:56 AM
"Eddy will need to compete for playing time and earn his role. His skills and mental abilities will be finally put on test.

arkrud - Eddy's skills and "mental abilities" don't require any more testing than any other Knicks player.

"Unless Isiah will come up with some ways to mute it again. I hope Isiah will fail to do it this year."

Priceless arkrud - Isiah "muted" Eddy to his best season as a pro. Besides, hoping for the Knicks to fail is so last year. Besides, anyone who roots for the Knicks to lose is no amigo of mine.

Martin - Zach has been quickly typecast as merely a low post player by too many people who have not watched him play carefully. Don't go for the hype.

I submit, without reservation, that Eddy and David Lee operating in extra Zach-space will be more fun than 2006

Book it Dano

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nixluva
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8/24/2007  11:08 AM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by martin:

I am not so sure if Curry is better than Zach inside. It wasn't until this year that Curry got double teamed in the post and towards the end of the season it showed how Eddie couldn't handle the double team... which IMHO is part of playing inside (or the post). Randolph gets double teamed regularly and still did his thing.

Zach is a much better passer.
Zach handles double teams better.
Zach is a better rebounder.
Zach has more steals than Curry (but not really that good at it).
Zach is less foul prone.
Zach turns the ball over less.
Zach is much more mobile guy. He's smaller and quicker and has a better handle. That said Curry is still the better inside player in terms of scoring, which is a huge part of the equation. How can Curry not be considered the better inside player when almost no one in the league is more efficient in close than him? Curry for the 1st time faced double and triple teams it sure didn't seem to slow him down much. Now imagine how he's gonna be once he get's used to all this and knows how to deal with it better? Once he gets a bit better at reading the D and passing.

It is clearly not something he's been working on for much of his career, but I think he's taking it more seriously now. In Chicago the way they played offense didn't really start every play with the ball going into him. So he's really just now getting experience as a player in that position. The extra attention messed with him, but that was a good thing, cuz it's forcing him to learn and improve.

The guy has been working on his game and it's bound to pay off. As much as people rip him for his faults the guy still has a chance to get better and look out if he does, cuz the guy is a sleeping giant.

It is difficult to evaluate Eddy like a player because he was playing on garbage teams his entire NBA carrier and it was no other inside option available.
This year we will be able to clearly see how good he is when we have other options inside.
Eddy will need to compete for playing time and earn his role. His skills and mental abilities will be finally put on test.
Unless Isiah will come up with some ways to mute it again. I hope Isiah will fail to do it this year.
Wouldn't you agree that it's an important part of his development to improve his shooting, so that he can also be effective when he's not in the post? Curry isn't a terrible ball handler. He's just limited. He takes guys off the dribble well enough for a guy his size. He's surprisingly quick and agile. He's just not on the same level as Zach in that regard. Still the talent he has will allow him to add these things to his game if he works on them like he is doing.
Bippity10
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8/24/2007  11:18 AM
Nothing wrong with developing a jumpshot. As long as he is losing weight getting in shape working on his post moves, why would working on the J be a bad thing?(especially with our team having two post up players. Anytime you add something to your game it's good.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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8/24/2007  11:26 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Bippity10:

He figured out that when I put my head down on a dribble that the ball was going to be shot.

u were born to be a knick!!

LOL! When my jumper is on I do not think it is proper basketball for me to be passing to anyone else. Even if they are wide open for a layup I'm not passing. If I'm going to make the shot anyway, why not cut out the middle man?. I'd fit in great with Stevie Francis. They'd call me Cuttino Bippity.

Actually I was referring to a bad habit I have that good defenders can pick up on. I have a quick release off the dribble and it's my bread and butter shot. When I dribble I always have my head up, but right before I shoot I dip my head. My buddy picked up on it. 1000 hours of watching myself on film and I never noticed it. He did. That's why teammates should play together as often as possible. It's the little things that help teams win.

Leadership is going to be big for us. IF Curry and Zach show that they are committed to making themselves stars and work together the rest of the team will pick up on it and rally around it. This is what the team has been starving for, for a while. Someone to show the rest of the team that they aren't just there to get theirs, and put up points. But they are there to do all the little things. The rest will follow.

If you watch the years when Ray Allen was at Uconn, you'll notice that there were a lot of guys that improved their jumpshots during the years he was there. It was because that guy would stay after practice for hours working on it. And when guys left the gym he wold crack on them. Then he started grabbing the walk ons and started forcing them to stay. Soon the trickle down effect started as everyone stayed. Everyone came early. Everyone showed up to offseason pickup games. Nobody wanted to miss, because the star led the way. We need that. Curry and Zach have to step up.
I just hope that people will like me
martin
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8/24/2007  11:28 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Martin - Zach has been quickly typecast as merely a low post player by too many people who have not watched him play carefully. Don't go for the hype.

What type of player is Zach then? I haven't watched him at all. I haven't listened to the hype but I do catch highlights and I see him get fed a LOT in the post.

So, what's fluid about his game? And what does fluid mean? And how does it help Curry?
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nixluva
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8/24/2007  11:47 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by misterearl:

Martin - Zach has been quickly typecast as merely a low post player by too many people who have not watched him play carefully. Don't go for the hype.

What type of player is Zach then? I haven't watched him at all. I haven't listened to the hype but I do catch highlights and I see him get fed a LOT in the post.

So, what's fluid about his game? And what does fluid mean? And how does it help Curry?
misterearl
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8/24/2007  11:52 AM
The Answer Man Knows Fluid Should Never Be Confused With The Motion on the Ocean

Q. martin - And what does fluid mean?

A. Fluid is a means of describing the ability to dribble a basketball in motion against a defender a carve space into a field goal attempt within that players preferred shooting range or location on the court. This skill can lead to the creation of an offensive opportunity.not exactly the same as Bernard King "creating his own shot" (which was a magnificent skill in its prime against the Isiah Thomas-led Pistons in the playoffs) but a unique skill for a 6'9+ player. For example, for all his positives Kurt Thomas was never comfortable with putting the ball on the floor in motion, leading into a shot.

Q. martin - What type of player is Zach then?

A. A cat that can do exactly that

Q. martin - So, what's fluid about his game?

A. Many times when he does what he does, the ball goes in the hoop. That gets the juices of his teammates flowing, which we all know as fluids. Since the body is 98% water I'd say that what Zach does is kinda juicy.
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Bippity10
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8/24/2007  12:07 PM
I'd agree with Earl that Zach is a fluid player on offense. But why does any of this matter? Kevin Mchale was one of the ugliest, awkward looking players in NBA history, but you couldn't stop him. IF Zach puts it in the hole, who cares what his style is.

What I care about is will he play some defense?
I just hope that people will like me
misterearl
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8/24/2007  12:17 PM
bippity - don't confuse "fluid" with your sense of "style"

McHale may have been ugly but he was fluid. Re-read the criteria I outlined for "fluid". Notice nothing was mentioned about being pretty.

trust me, I saw McHale up close in pickup ballgames with Mychal Thompson at the U of Minnesota

[Edited by - misterearl on 08-24-2007 12:21 PM]
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Bippity10
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8/24/2007  12:35 PM
My point is. Who cares?

Crawford is smooth as he-ll with the ball. He still hasn't helped us win.
I just hope that people will like me
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