I'm begging someone in the front office to keep Steph away from a microphone.

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Steph's position is actually quite logical. If killing a deer is ok, why not a dog? What is so much worse about killing a dog? Nothing.

in my mind it's really only logical if you didn't hear the kind of stuff that was in the indictment. i'm no fan of hunting. i personally am not interested in doing it. but to shoot at a deer with the goal of bringing them down quickly (as i understand most hunting is) doesn't turn my stomach the way dogfighting does.

Well hunting isnt necessarily about bringing them down quickly. Hunting with a bow and arrow certainly wont accomplish that most of the time. But we are talking about degrees of suffering here, and dogfighting may actually be worse, but its a minor distinction, imo. The animals are dead in the end, and they dont have to be, and there is no good reason why they are.

YOu could even make the argument that hunting is more sadistic because its about pleasure, whereas dogfighting is about money. They are both bad though, it it doesnt really matter to me.

Posted by Bippity10:

Killa I agree with your post except for this

"I never hear the venom spewed at BUsh and co."

Are you kidding me. His approval rating is in the tank and I have met very few people that don't spew venom at the guy........Actually that's not true. I have met a few people that like Bush. But it might be a different kind.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 21-08-2007 5:31 PM]

we've been doing our best with 75 pages of this: Bush reelected :-( ( 1 2 3 ... 73 74 75 )
http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=6315
kudos as always to MaTT4281

Posted by nixluva:

I'm around hunters now that I live in Georgia and it's a HUGE thing in the rest of the country. It's on the TV down here like crazy. The mentality is very different when it comes to animals. If you have to kill animals all the time on a farm you have a different view of animals in general. Then if you come from a background of Dog or Kock Fighting it's a whole other level. You get desensitized to the animal suffering. I believe that may be what happened with VIck. It doesn't have to be a pathological sickness, but one developed thru upbringing. I see it down here in the country and I can somewhat understand how someone could get that callous. I'm not saying it's right, but just explaining the source of that kind of mentality, which many people don't seem to understand.

thanks for this insight.

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Steph's position is actually quite logical. If killing a deer is ok, why not a dog? What is so much worse about killing a dog? Nothing.

in my mind it's really only logical if you didn't hear the kind of stuff that was in the indictment. i'm no fan of hunting. i personally am not interested in doing it. but to shoot at a deer with the goal of bringing them down quickly (as i understand most hunting is) doesn't turn my stomach the way dogfighting does.

Well hunting isnt necessarily about bringing them down quickly. Hunting with a bow and arrow certainly wont accomplish that most of the time. But we are talking about degrees of suffering here, and dogfighting may actually be worse, but its a minor distinction, imo. The animals are dead in the end, and they dont have to be, and there is no good reason why they are.

YOu could even make the argument that hunting is more sadistic because its about pleasure, whereas dogfighting is about money. They are both bad though, it it doesnt really matter to me.

don't really have time for a philosophical discussion... i stand by my opinion, for what it's worth. for me it's not all the same if they're dead in the end. dogfighting can really be lifelong torture for the animals. not to be morbid, but there are better and worse ways to die... some of that stuff in the Vick indictment definitely falls into the latter category IMO.

I dont disagree, except that all ways to do are bad when they arent naturally of old age. there are bad and worse ways for the animals to be killed and I'll concede that dogfighting is probably worse. That doesnt change much for me though.

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nixluva:

I'm around hunters now that I live in Georgia and it's a HUGE thing in the rest of the country. It's on the TV down here like crazy. The mentality is very different when it comes to animals. If you have to kill animals all the time on a farm you have a different view of animals in general. Then if you come from a background of Dog or Kock Fighting it's a whole other level. You get desensitized to the animal suffering. I believe that may be what happened with VIck. It doesn't have to be a pathological sickness, but one developed thru upbringing. I see it down here in the country and I can somewhat understand how someone could get that callous. I'm not saying it's right, but just explaining the source of that kind of mentality, which many people don't seem to understand.

There are also people that are around the killing of people all the time. From birth through wars and just in your face cruelty they become equally desensitized. I understand why they are the way they are, but that still shouldn't stop people from speaking out on it. The guy knew it was wrong and he went out and did it anyway and now is paying the price. And for those who think he is being targeted. Try starting your own massive dog fighting ring. Front all the money and allow your "boys" to use your home and backyard for the activities. When you are done gambling, dog fighting and hanging animals in your backyard get back to me and let me know how the feds feel.

You know that there's a long history of being a rebel in the south, when it comes to the central govt. There are those here that are proud of their heritage of illegal booze and NASCAR was founded off of that culture. So even tho they know it's against the law there's almost a badge of honor for doing illegal things or resisting the govt. The gun culture can be a part of that too at times. Look at a case like Ruby Ridge:

Ruby Ridge refers to a violent confrontation and siege involving Randy Weaver, his family, Weaver's friend Kevin Harris, federal agents from the United States Marshals Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The events took place on August 21, 1992 on the Weaver family property, located on a hillside between Caribou Ridge and Ruby Creek near Naples in northern Idaho. It is widely seen as an example of poorly used government power against an accused man.

In the months leading up to the incident, Weaver had failed to appear in court to answer charges relating to possession of an illegally shortened sawed-off shotgun, and the U.S. Marshals Service was directed to serve a warrant for his arrest. Weaver failed to show up on his court date, because the warrant gave the wrong date. His son, Samuel Weaver, was in the woods with a pet dog, hunting. Federal agents shot Samuel's dog, sparking a firefight which resulted in the deaths of Samuel and US Marshal William Degan. As a result, Federal agents stormed the house. Lon Horiuchi, an FBI sharpshooter, shot at Weaver and Harris, injuring them and killing Vicki Weaver as she held her baby daughter. The government spent $1 million per day for the 10 days of the ensuing siege.[citation needed] The stand-off was resolved with a truce arrangement, following which Weaver and Harris were arrested. Weaver was ultimately acquitted of all charges except missing his original court date and violation of his bail conditions, for which he was sentenced to 18 months and fined $10,000. Credited with time served, Weaver spent an additional 4 months in prison. Harris was acquitted of all charges.

The Law says dog fighting is illegal, but the law needs a poster boy to show how inhumane dogfighting is.

Where was the outrage and indignation(headlinenews) of dog fighting before Micheal Vick's episode ?

Posted by playa2:

The Law says dog fighting is illegal, but the law needs a poster boy to show how inhumane dogfighting is.

Where was the outrage and indignation(headlinenews) of dog fighting before Micheal Vick's episode ?

its media sensationalism. who cared about driving with a suspended license before paris served a month for it?

how many dogfighters are posterboy nfl starting quarterbacks with $130M contracts?

Posted by playa2:

The Law says dog fighting is illegal, but the law needs a poster boy to show how inhumane dogfighting is.

Where was the outrage and indignation(headlinenews) of dog fighting before Micheal Vick's episode ?

All the more reason to understand that if you are a celebrity DO NOT BREAK THE LAW.

There are prices that go along with fame. Walk the straight and narrow or find yourself in the media. If you don't want that, it's simple, stay out of trouble.