Now that Zach is on our team is he the best player?
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Killa4luv
Posts: 27774 Alba Posts: 51 Joined: 6/23/2002 Member: #261 USA |
8/15/2007 9:38 AM
Posted by martin:Posted by Killa4luv: |
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Killa4luv
Posts: 27774 Alba Posts: 51 Joined: 6/23/2002 Member: #261 USA |
8/15/2007 9:56 AM
Posted by BigC:Posted by Killa4luv:Agreed! At the same time offensively I would think Zach has more offensive weapons than Marbury. Marbury can pass better, however he can not Ok, how about this, insted of saying he can't go left, I'll say his left is weak and he has been rendered useless more than one time by defenders who capitalize on this. The same thing has never happened to steph. Andre Igodoula made Craw look like a JV player simply by overplaying his right hand. Craw charged, turned over the ball, and overall was ineffective because a defensive player recognized this as one of his weaknesses. Shooting a jumpshot after crossing over to your left is not going left, and that is most of what he does. He never finishes with his left hand on the left side of the basket. Ever. Steph does, its rare, but it happens. Stephs left isn't strong, but its better than Jamals. HIs decision making is bvetter, his handle is better, his PG skills in general are much better than Jamals, I dont even know how one can argue against that. But if you think JC is better than Steph at the PG, I dont know what to tell you. ONe thing JC does better than Steph is throw alley-oops. Betond that there isn't another thing I could say JC does better than Steph as a PG. COmparing JC to JKidd is laughable. Nash and JKidd have high turnovers because they have the ball 95% of the time. All of the top players in the league have high turnover rates. Craw doesn't have the ball nearly as much as those guys and has alot of turnovers. Why? He just isn't good at protecting the ball, and he makes alot of bad decisions. JKidd and Nash throw alot of alley oops and crazy passes and complete them at a high rate, thats what makes them so great as PGs. Craw does not, and that is why this is the first time I have ever heard a mention of JKdd in an argument about Craws PG skills. Not to mention the guy plays less the zero defense. He is afraid of contact, and afraid of the gym as well, apparently. If he went to the whole more he'd be a far more effective player overall. With his speed, agility, and size he should be able to be a good defender against pgs (much like Jkidd is), that he is not speaks to his mental toughness, or lack thereof. JCraw is good at what he does, being a scorer at the 2, with better pg skills than most 2 guards. Thats his strength and we should use him in that way. He should play like Rip, run off alot of picks and shoot, or fake and drive to the basket (or just a little closer in his case). Thats when he is most effective. He will be called upon to be a reliable shooter as we know teams will have to double curry or Zach. If he can be effective shooting mid to long range shots this season, we should win alot of games. In many ways he is our most pivotal player, because when he plays well, we win, or have a serious chance to win. He is just so inconsistant, and when his jumper is clanking, he is virtually useless on offense. Many many games he has been invisible. 40 one night, 0 points 2 nights later. if we could get a solid 14-15 points from him a game, doing what he does, plus a couple of good passes, it would put us over the top. |
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djsunyc
Posts: 44929 Alba Posts: 42 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #536 |
8/15/2007 10:08 AM
my contention before the 2005/06 season was to play jamal at the point to SEE if he can do it. why? b/c i always thought playing steph there would be fruitless with the direction the team was going in.
it's now 2 years later, and i don't think jamal can run the point nor would i want him to. his decision making hasn't gotten that much better over the past 3 years as a knick. he still makes you scratch your head alot. he has gotten better as a plyer but that seems to be more from a natural growth process in terms of age. but the ability to run an entire team and be control of everyone is something alot different than just being able to throw a lob or a nice pick and roll for eddy. he's a 6th man through and through and since he's a starter here is one indicator on why we can never put together win streaks. i think with jamal - all his coaches see the potential, that's why he gets to keep playing heavy duty minutes and leading the team in fga's. but ultimately, he hasn't reached that potential - he may 1-2 nights a week, but the other 2-3 he's wildly inconsistent offensively (i won't even mention the defense). he seems like our most pivotal player b/c like killa said, when he plays well we win. the problem is that he doesn't play well all the time yet we still rely on him heavily. his consistency, for this team, is key. btw, the best player on this team is still steph. [Edited by - djsunyc on 08-15-2007 10:10 AM] |
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BigC
Posts: 22672 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/14/2004 Member: #829 |
8/15/2007 11:02 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:Again you are trying to prove that Marbury has a better left hand than Jamal when I have been watching Marbury play like almost a little less than half of his life. Jamal has a better left hand than Marbury.Posted by BigC:Posted by Killa4luv:Agreed! At the same time offensively I would think Zach has more offensive weapons than Marbury. Marbury can pass better, however he can not Now you want to mention what Andre Igodoula did to Jamal? That is one player. Where are these other players that know how to shut down Jamal that you speak of? Because Billups, Wade, many others have not figure that out. You make it sound as if Andre Igodoula represents the entire league. That's like me going to the park to play ball and I shut down the best player in the park. Yet everyone else in that park can't stop that player. Does that mean that this player can not post up or take the rest of the players in that park off the dribble? Look how Bruce Bowen shuts down players. Does that mean the next opponent will have that luck? Basketball is a game of matchups. And any given night it is possible for a person to have a bad night or be shut down. Shooting a jumpshot after crossing over to your left is not going left, and that is most of what he does. He never finishes with his left hand on the left side of the basket. Ever. Steph does, its rare, but it happens.How can you say Marbury can go left but Jamal never finishes with his left on the leftside when I just provided you with a clip of him finishing with the left all the way. This is why I really feel we have to watch the game at the same time because how can say that when Jamal does this time out and time in again. Stephs left isn't strong, but its better than Jamals. HIs decision making is bvetter, his handle is better, his PG skills in general are much better than Jamals, I dont even know how one can argue against that. But if you think JC is better than Steph at the PG, I dont know what to tell you. ONe thing JC does better than Steph is throw alley-oops. Betond that there isn't another thing I could say JC does better than Steph as a PG. Marbury handle is better? How is this possible when Marbury does not have a strong a left hand? You hear Frazier over and over again saying why doesn't this player make Marbury go left because that is his weakside. Have you ever heard that comment about Jamal? You don't think there is anything else that Jamal does better than Marbury as far as the offense? How about better at feeding the post? ( Which is top focus in Isiah's system) How about running the break? How about hitting cutters? How about getting right into the offense before the defenders can set up? COmparing JC to JKidd is laughable. Nash and JKidd have high turnovers because they have the ball 95% of the time. All of the top players in the league have high turnover rates. Craw doesn't have the ball nearly as much as those guys and has alot of turnovers. Why? He just isn't good at protecting the ball, and he makes alot of bad decisions. JKidd and Nash throw alot of alley oops and crazy passes and complete them at a high rate, thats what makes them so great as PGs. Craw does not, and that is why this is the first time I have ever heard a mention of JKdd in an argument about Craws PG skills. No one said JC is good as Kidd or Nash and I never will, however I said both of those players take risks when they do make passes. They just don't stand around. You said that Jamal is not good at protecting the ball? Come on. How many times have you seen someone pick Jamal's pockets? Not to mention the guy plays less the zero defense. He is afraid of contact, and afraid of the gym as well, apparently. If he went to the whole more he'd be a far more effective player overall. With his speed, agility, and size he should be able to be a good defender against pgs (much like Jkidd is), that he is not speaks to his mental toughness, or lack thereof. His defense is better on pg's better than Marbury. In fact Marbury defense only stepped up this year because he has been guarding 2 guards. Marbury has been in the league for 10 years and was getting abused at guarding point guards. Jamal is decent at guarding pg, horrible at guarding 2 guards. The same for Marbury as far as him being able to guard 2 guards which are slower and easier for him to guard. Marbury guarding quick point guards is a different story. Now to Jamal's mental toughness that you speak of. You think Jamal is mentally weak? How strong do you think Marbury would be if Isiah told him to come off the bench? How productive would he be? The hardiest thing for a player to play is the 4th quarter and in the final minutes of games when the game is on the line. You rarely see Jamal crack. Yet the guy you think is mentally tough Marbury, can not hit his foul line shots in clutch situations, nor even wants the ball in the last seconds in games. JCraw is good at what he does, being a scorer at the 2, with better pg skills than most 2 guards. Thats his strength and we should use him in that way. He should play like Rip, run off alot of picks and shoot, or fake and drive to the basket (or just a little closer in his case). Thats when he is most effective. He will be called upon to be a reliable shooter as we know teams will have to double curry or Zach. If he can be effective shooting mid to long range shots this season, we should win alot of games. There is nothing here that I disagree with. In many ways he is our most pivotal player, because when he plays well, we win, or have a serious chance to win. He is just so inconsistant, and when his jumper is clanking, he is virtually useless on offense. Many many games he has been invisible. 40 one night, 0 points 2 nights later. if we could get a solid 14-15 points from him a game, doing what he does, plus a couple of good passes, it would put us over the top. If you want him to be consistant then he has to start every night not just around the all-star break. As far as 40 points one night thing and 2 points the next night. It all depends on if the game before went into overtime or just simply someone else stepped up the next night(Curry, Marbury,Q) At the end of the day I think that with this team Jamal is better suited running the point and Marbury playing the 2 guard. Marbury could be that 3rd o option after Zach and Curry. Our team the way it is designed is why I say Jamal needs to run the point. We have two big men that need the ball in the post. And who is the best player at running a post offense? Jamal or Marbury? If Curry and Zach are going to be this team's focal point then you better believe Jamal has to be that guy setting them up. Also Marbury will be able just to focus on scoring. If we got back Kurt Thomas and Nazr back I would say Marbury needs to run the point. But we are not talking about that. We are talking about a team designed on making Curry the focal point. [Edited by - BigC on 08-15-2007 11:24 AM] BigC's Knick blogs and Knicks
highlights after every Knicks game http://fromthebaseline.com/
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BigC
Posts: 22672 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/14/2004 Member: #829 |
8/15/2007 11:05 AM
Posted by djsunyc:One day ago you said Zach was the best player. I have to get back to work, but I will break down your post later. [Edited by - BigC on 08-15-2007 11:05 AM] BigC's Knick blogs and Knicks
highlights after every Knicks game http://fromthebaseline.com/
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COSSUCKS
Posts: 20984 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/15/2007 Member: #1569 |
8/15/2007 11:06 AM
Marbury is the 5th best player on the team. Curry, Dlee, Zach and Crawford are all better players at this time.
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
8/15/2007 12:32 PM
Posted by COSSUCKS: I don't know about that. Lee benefits from being a garbage man of sorts and he's very productive in that role. He's not relied upon to create anything on his own. That to me would disqualify him. JC is far too inefficient and inconsistent to be considered better than Steph. Curry is more dominant scoring at his position, but I don't know that he's actually a better player. Zach right now is the one guy that is clearly a better player IMO. |
Now that Zach is on our team is he the best player?